Chord Hugo
Mar 1, 2015 at 8:19 PM Post #9,811 of 15,694
Totally agree on the sound of Hugo with T1 they are just great together. Had the same pieces before, due to times comes by I just want something simple and light.

Now just match a ak240ss with ak T5p.
 
Mar 1, 2015 at 10:28 PM Post #9,813 of 15,694
   
Yes, you are right. Rise time was inappropriate. I was more in a interpolation approach than in the audio sample theory. The rising edge of a signal will be less accurately described if the known samples have time separation larger (time step). It's the reason, one can use some interpolation methods to better describe the time behavior of the signal.
 
What is the latency of your filtering process ?

The WTA filter is 38mS latency, so the interpolation is based on 76mS of data - this is for Hugo. For the 164,000 taps it is a lot longer!
 
Rob
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 12:06 AM Post #9,814 of 15,694
  The WTA filter is 38mS latency, so the interpolation is based on 76mS of data - this is for Hugo. For the 164,000 taps it is a lot longer!
 
Rob

 
Should the number of taps be a limitation for the synchronization of images and sound ?
 
This should limit a 162000 (or more) taps DAC to solely listening music, should not it ?
 
I was thinking to this because I use studio monitors which are phase compensated by analogic delay circuits and not by DSP to have less latency (micro second vs ms).
 
Your products should get an interest for professional audio purpose because they are very accurate and they sound realistic.
 
Many thanks,
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 7:21 AM Post #9,815 of 15,694
   
Actually there is a very important problem with digital audio and sampling, and it is not about rise time itself, as this is always limited to FS/2, as sampling theory demands a bandwidth limited signal and this will define the rise-time. But the issue is when does the timing of a transient occurs; is it at the beginning of a sample, or 10% between the sample, or at halfway, or towards the next sample. Now this timing uncertainty is resolved by the DAC interpolation filter, and the maths is very simple - use an infinite tap length interpolation FIR filter with a sinc impulse response, and you will absolutely and perfectly recover the original un-sampled bandwidth limited signal. But it will still be bandwidth limited, and this will determine the signal rise time. Now I don't believe rise time per se is important, but the precision that you reconstruct the timing of the edges is radically important subjectively as the ear/brain is very sensitive to timing errors. We talk about timing errors in terms of jitter in terms of pico seconds, but the timing errors can be tens of microseconds long with conventional short tap length filters.
 
That's why Hugo has over 26,000 taps on the FIR interpolation filter (the longest tap length of any other production DAC at any price), as this sounds much better because the timing errors are much smaller. Indeed, I have been listening to 164,000 tap length filter against 100,000 taps, and you can still hear improvements, so we are a long way from solving this issue. I am clear in my own mind that we do not need infinite tap length filters, but we certainly need much more taps than even 164,000 before one can no longer hear the difference. If you take the view that the sinc impulse response should be 16 bit accurate, then we need about a million taps before the timing problem is resolved. this would them guarantee that the reconstruction in the time domain was 16 bit accurate.
 
Rob


Rob - can you do 164000 taps with the current Spartan FPGA Chip offering?
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 11:33 AM Post #9,816 of 15,694
Sure, with an LX75. But it has been a major headache, I had to re-design it 4 times, due to timing and place and route problems. As each filter is 100,000 lines of code, it has not been easy. On paper it can do 200,000 but the initial design could not meet timing, so I had to completely change strategy for it. This guarantees timing closure, but limits it to 164,000 taps as I had to create more DSP cores with all of them running at half the original speed. So the design uses 160 DSP cores in parallel just for the first stage of the WTA filter. 
 
Rob
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 11:49 AM Post #9,817 of 15,694
  Sure, with an LX75. But it has been a major headache, I had to re-design it 4 times, due to timing and place and route problems. As each filter is 100,000 lines of code, it has not been easy. On paper it can do 200,000 but the initial design could not meet timing, so I had to completely change strategy for it. This guarantees timing closure, but limits it to 164,000 taps as I had to create more DSP cores with all of them running at half the original speed. So the design uses 160 DSP cores in parallel just for the first stage of the WTA filter. 
 
Rob

Amazing!
 
Are you going to integrate it within a new product, when it is ready? If yes, is it going to be portable, like hugo?
 
Anyways, i am a huge fan of your work, it is amazing!
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 12:04 PM Post #9,818 of 15,694
  Sure, with an LX75. But it has been a major headache, I had to re-design it 4 times, due to timing and place and route problems. As each filter is 100,000 lines of code, it has not been easy. On paper it can do 200,000 but the initial design could not meet timing, so I had to completely change strategy for it. This guarantees timing closure, but limits it to 164,000 taps as I had to create more DSP cores with all of them running at half the original speed. So the design uses 160 DSP cores in parallel just for the first stage of the WTA filter. 
 
Rob


Rob, I understand this is work in progress  - but how does 164000 taps sound compared to the Hugo? What are the obvious differences?
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 12:21 PM Post #9,819 of 15,694
The 164,000 taps and SQ is a long story, something I will perhaps talk about closer to launch.
 
The LX75 FPGA with 164,000 will never be portable, the FPGA alone consumes 5W of power. But wait 5 years or more when we get 10nm FPGA's then maybe it will be possible for a portable device!
 
Rob
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 1:18 PM Post #9,820 of 15,694
  The 164,000 taps and SQ is a long story, something I will perhaps talk about closer to launch.
 
The LX75 FPGA with 164,000 will never be portable, the FPGA alone consumes 5W of power. But wait 5 years or more when we get 10nm FPGA's then maybe it will be possible for a portable device!
 
Rob

 
I'm excited already!
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 8:20 PM Post #9,821 of 15,694
My silver Hugo and tan leather case has shipped.
Also a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 2 and a pair of Shure SE846.
 
Very excited.
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 10:02 PM Post #9,822 of 15,694
  My silver Hugo and tan leather case has shipped.   Very excited.

 
You should be!  I received mine over the weekend, can't put it down (charging now).  What you've read about will soon become reality, incredible piece of gear.  Congrats and enjoy!
 
 
Can someone  please tell me it's ok to use the Hugo while charging the battery,  5hrs is a long time to wait...lol.
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 10:45 PM Post #9,823 of 15,694
   
You should be!  I received mine over the weekend, can't put it down (charging now).  What you've read about will soon become reality, incredible piece of gear.  Congrats and enjoy!
 
 
Can someone  please tell me it's ok to use the Hugo while charging the battery,  5hrs is a long time to wait...lol.

 
what have you used for cords?
 
Mar 2, 2015 at 11:19 PM Post #9,824 of 15,694
Mar 3, 2015 at 12:04 AM Post #9,825 of 15,694
You should be!  I received mine over the weekend, can't put it down (charging now).  What you've read about will soon become reality, incredible piece of gear.  Congrats and enjoy!


Can someone  please tell me it's ok to use the Hugo while charging the battery,  5hrs is a long time to wait...lol.
you can leave the Hugo plugged in all the time if you like.so yes you can use you're Hugo.
 

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