[iFi audio]

Availability in parts of the world?

Hi.
 
Yes, will firm up closer to the time.
 
Thanks.

 

[iFi audio]

  Will the Mini use femto clocks? How important is clocking, especially when the mini with work with such high sample rates?

Hi,
 
Dont get us wrong - Femto clocks are nice and better than average clocks etc.
 
But the fact is that Femto clocks originally came about not for audiophile use but for the SONET.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_optical_networking
 
Kind of the backbone of the Internet if you will. Therefore, as you can appreciate, the jitter/reflections found here are in the GHz region.
 
Hence, crucially, Femto clocks are most effective in the GHz band.
 
The human hearing is certainly not focused here (heck, not even for those small furry creatures that carry ebola and sleep upside down in damp caves).
 
So to us, it doesnt make sense to put something in an audio product that is less than optimal for audio playback even if it is flavour of the month.
 
We do something a bit different. The roots lie in what we did for the AMR DP-777.

 

[jexby]

 
Hi,
 
Dont get us wrong - Femto clocks are nice and better than average clocks etc.
 
But the fact is that Femto clocks originally came about not for audiophile use but for the SONET.
 
So to us, it doesnt make sense to put something in an audio product that is less than optimal for audio playback even if it is flavour of the month.
 
We do something a bit different. The roots lie in what we did for the AMR DP-777.

 
iFi,
 
thanks as always for the prompt replies.
 
can users find out the background of AMR DP-777 online?
or
can you explain any further/deeper, without giving away proprietary secrets, what the micro iDSD underneath labelling of:
 GMT Femto Clock Technology
means then?
(if femto clocks are not actually used.)

 

[john57]

As far clocks goes. This post does go some in detail.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-3-show-a-little-leg-what-is-it-page-132/645#post_10606215

 

[Jimi Zine]

May 2015 wow ok that's a while, thanks

 

[earfonia]

  Hi all,

Major case of feature creep - so we are going to aim for prototype for CES and then launch in Mar.


 
When we have anything close to soup, we'll put it up here.


 
The next new product is the Retro and that is coming in November.


 
Okay, not fully soup, but here you go as we're in a good mood today!






 

iDSD mini
Fully-Balanced DAC (USB/SPDIF/AES-EBU/Bluetooth)
Formats:	44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384/705.6/768KHz PCM
	2.8/3.1/5.6/6.2/11.2/12.4/22.4/24.8MHz DSD
	DXD
Filter:	PCM: Standard/Minimum Phase digital, Bitperfect 1, Bitperfect 2; selectable
	DSD: Standard/Extended Range/Minimal analogue, selectable
	DXD: Bitperfect Processing, fixed analogue filter
DAC:	Quad Core Dual Mono Bit Perfect DSD, PCM & DXD DAC by Burr Brown in current output mode (4-DAC Chip; 8-Channel; 16-Signals)
Clock:	Ultra low jitter Crystal Clock (rms jitter < 300 Femtoseconds)
Analogue Stages:	Balanced fully discrete Class A - Non-Feedback I/V conversion by single BISS Supertransistor
	Balanced fully discrete Class A - Non-Feedback Line output buffer using J-Fets and BISS Supertransistors
	High Speed current mode Class A Headphone Buffer with balanced fully discrete Class A - Non-Feedback input buffer using J-Fets and BISS Supertransistors
Volume Control:	Balanced 4-Way precision analogue by ALPS, Remote Control, can be bypassed for Line Outs
Audio Path passives:	Tantalum Oxide Thin Film thin film surface mounted resistors,
	TDK high stability C0G surface mounted capacitors
	Panasonic PolyPhenylene Sulfide stacked film surface mounted capacitors
	Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitors
Input: (selectable)	USB 3.0
	compatible with iPhone,iPod, iPad and Android Devices USB-OTG#
	SPDIF RCA/Optical (only PCM up to 192KHz)
	AES-EBU Balanced
	BNC SPDIF Unbalanced
	Bluetooth with aptX
Audio System Support:	PC - ASIO 2.2, WASAPI, Kernel Streaming (KS), Directsound
	Mac - Core Audio
Output	XLR True Balanced Audio (Output adjustable 4/10V @ 0dBFS [+14dBu/+22dBu])
	Audio RCA (2V/5V @ 0dBFS)
	6.3mm Headphone 4V/10V maximum output
	Headphone Output Power 4,000mW/16R max.
Dynamic Range:	TBD
THD &N (Line)	TBD
THD &N (HP 100mW)	TBD
Output Power (16R):	> 4000mW
PowerSource:	External DC 14V (compatible with 12V Battery systems)
Power Consumption:	< 15W
Size:	220mm x 62mm X 210mm (W X H X D including feet, knobs and connectors)

Cheers.

 
Awesome specs! Looks like micro on steroid 

 
Some questions and requests :
 
1. Can we have both analog and digital volume? Selectable to have the flavor of both, like in Mytek 192-DSD.
 
2. Since the headphone output is so powerful (like micro), will there be analog input just in case we need to use the headphone amplifier alone?
 
3. I found micro iDSD single LED indicator is extremely frustrating. Will there be a more user friendly indicator on the mini?
 
4. Will mini has USB power filter built-in ?
 
5. Any plan for balanced headphone output (4 pins XLR) ?
 
Sorry if some already asnwered somewhere, Thanks! 

 

[technobear]

Here is my wish list for the mini iDSD:

1) Class A headphone amp;

2) Analogue stepped attenuator volume control with remote;

3) At least Level 1 & 3 XBASS (from micro iCAN) plus Level 2 XBASS (from micro iDSD) even if this means using a knob instead of a toggle switch. Better still would be full tone controls based on analogue stepped attenuators with remote;

4) 3D Holographic sound from the micro iCAN, not the micro iDSD and make it tone compensated;

5) Crossfeed from the micro iCAN;

6) Balanced headphone output (as well as single ended);

7) Obviously ultra low noise power supplies and an iPurifier on the USB input;

8) Full USB isolation would be good;

9) Since you have the knowhow already, you could make the unit battery operated with automatic recharge when music is not playing and vanishingly low power consumption once the battery is full so it can be left plugged in - this implies a sleep mode to power down the Class A headphone amp of course;

10) Probably wasting my time but many will ask for a BLACK version.


In my humble opinion, splitting the above functionality between a mini iDSD and a mini iCAN would result in a system which is way too expensive. The £1200 price point is already challenging when one looks at what one can get for half that price or a little more. The mini iDSD is going to need some seriously standout features to justify the asking.

 

[semeniub]

Here is my wish list for the mini iDSD:

1) Class A headphone amp;

2) Analogue stepped attenuator volume control with remote;

3) At least Level 1 & 3 XBASS (from micro iCAN) plus Level 2 XBASS (from micro iDSD) even if this means using a knob instead of a toggle switch. Better still would be full tone controls based on analogue stepped attenuators with remote;

4) 3D Holographic sound from the micro iCAN, not the micro iDSD and make it tone compensated;

5) Crossfeed from the micro iCAN;

6) Balanced headphone output (as well as single ended);

7) Obviously ultra low noise power supplies and an iPurifier on the USB input;

8) Full USB isolation would be good;

9) Since you have the knowhow already, you could make the unit battery operated with automatic recharge when music is not playing and vanishingly low power consumption once the battery is full so it can be left plugged in - this implies a sleep mode to power down the Class A headphone amp of course;

10) Probably wasting my time but many will ask for a BLACK version.


In my humble opinion, splitting the above functionality between a mini iDSD and a mini iCAN would result in a system which is way too expensive. The £1200 price point is already challenging when one looks at what one can get for half that price or a little more. The mini iDSD is going to need some seriously standout features to justify the asking.

+1
 
And in the spirit of crowd-designing, I'm going to suggest a tube output stage, and the audio streaming functionality of the SOTM SMS-100 built in too!

 

[technobear]

And in the spirit of crowd-designing, I'm going to suggest a tube output stage, and the audio streaming functionality of the SOTM SMS-100 built in too!

Those who want a tube output stage can of course buy the upcoming Retro 50.

Personally I don't want the power consumption that goes with tubes.

This of course leads us to the question of how powerful the headphone amp should be given that it really must be a Class A design. The micro iCAN sounds great but doesn't consume much. However it isn't the best for some of the hungrier 'phones out there. I have nice efficient T1's so I don't care. The micro iCAN is just fine. Perhaps there might be scope for a switchable multi-level Class A design so that the user can choose how much power will be consumed.

Newbies might be reading this and wondering what I am on about. In a nutshell, Class A designs consume power the whole time regardless of whether music is playing or not. I believe the transistors are biased at something approaching 50% which would imply 25% of maximum power consumption continuously. Something like that anyway. Experts please set me straight if I haven't quite got that right. In a Class AB design, the transistors are permanently biased by a few percent only so consumption depends more closely on the volume level. In a Class B design (are there any?) the transistors are switched off whenever the signal is zero.

 

[BillsonChang007]

Here is my wish list for the mini iDSD:

1) Class A headphone amp;

2) Analogue stepped attenuator volume control with remote;

3) At least Level 1 & 3 XBASS (from micro iCAN) plus Level 2 XBASS (from micro iDSD) even if this means using a knob instead of a toggle switch. Better still would be full tone controls based on analogue stepped attenuators with remote;

4) 3D Holographic sound from the micro iCAN, not the micro iDSD and make it tone compensated;

5) Crossfeed from the micro iCAN;

6) Balanced headphone output (as well as single ended);

7) Obviously ultra low noise power supplies and an iPurifier on the USB input;

8) Full USB isolation would be good;

9) Since you have the knowhow already, you could make the unit battery operated with automatic recharge when music is not playing and vanishingly low power consumption once the battery is full so it can be left plugged in - this implies a sleep mode to power down the Class A headphone amp of course;

10) Probably wasting my time but many will ask for a BLACK version.


In my humble opinion, splitting the above functionality between a mini iDSD and a mini iCAN would result in a system which is way too expensive. The £1200 price point is already challenging when one looks at what one can get for half that price or a little more. The mini iDSD is going to need some seriously standout features to justify the asking.

+1 to this! to add, maybe some iUSBPower features put in it?

 

[Esprit]

My wish list? ASIO driver for Mac OSX in order to bypass the DoP...

 

[rickyleelee]

How exactly will the mini DSD be different? Have seen some rehash/upsize in a new fancier chassis with a bigger power supply. Seen this to often and feel left down by this way of business.

 

[tf1216]

  How exactly will the mini DSD be different? Have seen some rehash/upsize in a new fancier chassis with a bigger power supply. Seen this to often and feel left down by this way of business.

 
What has me excited is the four DAC chips, opposed to two, providing a true-balanced output and the techniques used for the display on the Micro.  

 

[iFi audio]

mini Pro series 'iDSD Pro' - the specifications
 
(can the original poster change the title from "mini" to "Pro" desktop?

)
 
Okay, okay - here you guys go.
 
To answer the above questions, (except for the casework), the micro is not a "super-size" of the nano, neither will the mini Pro series "iDSD Pro".
 
 
Originally the iDSD mini Pro  was set to use the same Generation 1.5 XMOS and CPU Core as the iDSD micro, but expanded to allow 4 DAC Chip's and with a different analogue stage. This would have given the iDSD headlining specs, including DSD512 and 768KHz PCM, but would have left it a little difficult to include in a number of scenarios.
 
 
But this the iFi flagship. Following on from the discussions with distributors, customers and professionals in the recording industry, we will instead use the iDSD Pro to develop the Generation 2 version of the platform. This includes a few, but significant adjustments in usability and a number of features targeted at the professional market, though they do have uses in domestic audio as well.
 
 
Key changes are:
 
 
1) External Clock Synchronisation
The iDSD Pro will allow the use of external clocks for USB and AES/EBU modes.
 
 
Options available are the use of the BNC socket as 10MHz atomic clock input (this affects all clocks and inputs).
 
 
For external sync either Wordclock via BNC or AES3 on the XLR input are supported. Finally the BNC can be configured as wordclock out (to make one iDSD Pro the "master" in a multi channel playback setup).
 
 
The wordclock synchronisation is mainly for professional use, but will also allow the iDSD to be used in multichannel playback at home, as for this all DACs MUST be synchronised.
 
The ability to add an external atomic (or other low-jitter) clock will cater to those who like to tweak their setups to the limit, as it replaces the internal crystal clock reference directly.
 
 
 
 
2) USB linked Volume Control
The iDSD mini will use a fully balanced (4-deck) Alps motorised Potentiometer as volume control. This volume control will be linked into the Master Volume control for the USB Device with a full feedback loop, meaning if you move the slider in Windows/Mac, the actual potentiometer rotates to match this and in reverse, adjust the volume and the slider moves. The adjustment will be highly precise so it matches across multiple units and is absolute - that is set several to -10dB and what you get is precisely -10dB.
 
 
The volume setting system used here is a derivation of the "flying faders" system used in Pro-Audio to automate mixes, but obviously has many uses outside pro-audio, especially if linked with the replay gain function, if replay-gain is applied to this volume control.
 
 
Of course, there will also be a handset to remote control the volume. And being able to set the Potentiometer explicitly to any position, we will include separate memories for volume settings for Headphone and Line out mode. So plug in your Headphones and the Volume returns to the last volume setting used when a headphone was connected, unplug it and the volume returns to that set for the line out. So an analogue Volume control with all the precision and comfort of a digital one. But none of the drawbacks such as losing Bits which the truncating signal etc.
 
 
 
 
3) DSD decoding from SPDIF
This is probably the most requested feature, simply put, the iDSD Pro will be able to receive DoP encoded DSD over the SPDIF & AES/EBU inputs. This is actually not hard to implement, just a bit time-consuming, but we kind of missed the demand for this, so it was never implemented before.
 
 
 
 
4) Passive Filtering and Discrete Analogue stage
The analogue stage in the iDSD Pro will be completely discrete, no Op-Amp IC's and in fact the actual discrete design will also not just be Op-Amp made discrete (and often worse than the best integrated ones) but will use something radically different, pure Class A (

) being among the features. Much of the circuitry draws its inspiration from legendary and exceptionally sounding studio equipment.
 
 
Not only that, but the DAC outputs will have a purely passive, CLC (Capacitor-Resistor-Capacitor) based lowpass filter to remove ultrasonic noise. Commonly the DAC outputs are filtered at least in part active. Often active filters struggle with the amount ultrasonic noise and RFI they have to handle and at a few 100kHz they often loose the ability to filter at all.
 
Not so for the iDSD Pro. Using passive CLC filtering provides the correct filtering out to many Megahertz, so that the following analogue stage is not required to handle ultrasonic noise and RFI outside it's ability to handle.
 
 
 
 
5) Dimmable Display with off option
We have been getting requests ranging from "can you make the display brighter" to "can we turn the display off". So the Display on the iDSD will be adjustable in several steps of brightness, including "bright" and "off". In a move borrowed from the AMR line, if there is any change that requires indication the display will show this for a few seconds at maximum brightness before returning to whatever is set up (including off).
 
 
This is all we can divulge at this moment in time.

 

[earfonia]

  Pro series 'iDSD Pro' - the specifications
 
 
 
1) External Clock Synchronisation
 
The ability to add an external atomic (or other low-jitter) clock will cater to those who like to tweak their setups to the limit, as it replaces the internal crystal clock reference directly.
 
2) USB linked Volume Control
The iDSD mini will use a fully balanced (4-deck) Alps motorised Potentiometer as volume control. This volume control will be linked into the Master Volume control for the USB Device with a full feedback loop, meaning if you move the slider in Windows/Mac, the actual potentiometer rotates to match this and in reverse, adjust the volume and the slider moves. The adjustment will be highly precise so it matches across multiple units and is absolute - that is set several to -10dB and what you get is precisely -10dB.
 
3) DSD decoding from SPDIF
This is probably the most requested feature, simply put, the iDSD Pro will be able to receive DoP encoded DSD over the SPDIF & AES/EBU inputs. This is actually not hard to implement, just a bit time-consuming, but we kind of missed the demand for this, so it was never implemented before.
 
4) Passive Filtering and Discrete Analogue stage
The analogue stage in the iDSD Pro will be completely discrete, no Op-Amp IC's and in fact the actual discrete design will also not just be Op-Amp made discrete (and often worse than the best integrated ones) but will use something radically different, pure Class A (

) being among the features. Much of the circuitry draws its inspiration from legendary and exceptionally sounding studio equipment.
 
5) Dimmable Display with off option
We have been getting requests ranging from "can you make the display brighter" to "can we turn the display off". So the Display on the iDSD will be adjustable in several steps of brightness, including "bright" and "off". In a move borrowed from the AMR line, if there is any change that requires indication the display will show this for a few seconds at maximum brightness before returning to whatever is set up (including off).
 
 
This is all we can divulge at this moment in time.

 
 
Sounds good!
Why not just put the atomic clock as default?  Will it make the cost jump to much?