Electrodynamic and electrostatic headphones now obsolete ?

Abyss has some of the worst treble out there (largely due to the single ended magnetic assembly) and tonality is pretty off.  Until those issues are fixed, they're not in contention for "state of the art", "revolutionary", or whatever other attention grabbing terms you come up with.

eric65 said:

   
This excellent review of Tyll must be revised shortly.
 
It seems that the copy provided to Tyll was defective.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/569024/question-about-amps-for-the-stax-sr-009/570#post_10029708
 
New measurements must be made with a flawless copy of Abyss.
 
Eric

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I've measured x2 Abyss (one pre-production different from Tyll's pair and the other my own production pair) and they are both similar to Tyll's measurements.
 

n3rdling said:

  Abyss has some of the worst treble out there (largely due to the single ended magnetic assembly) and tonality is pretty off.  

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It's not necessarily the single-ended thing because otherwise we'd be seeing a lot of distortion throughout the band, including the bass, which we aren't. The treble issue seems to be caused by reflections from the baffle and the cable (not a fan of the stock cable), both easy fixes.

The Abyss model (production) currently in the shop to Pierre Paya in France (Abyss in demonstration) and already listened to by at least 5 other testers (in addition to Peter) is perhaps a model free from audible defects in the treble, because, apart from a very slight lack of presence in the upper midrange for this headphone, it seems that this headphone make unanimity on the 6 French testers (from what I've read in the thread Abyss HCFR).

Perhaps there is there a variation in quality of the headphone in the treble restitution, of an headphone to another, depending on the model set out?
 
Eric

customcoco said:

Wait a few months till those guys get to really live with the Abyss and put things into perspective... Remember, it was the same old stuff with the HD800... "best ever!!" "Game changer!!" "So good the only I want is to hide in a cave and listen to the sweet music for the rest of my days..."

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Yes, I remember, it was... right now, still top of the heap nearly 5 years later.

eric65 said:

  The Abyss model (production) currently in the shop to Pierre Paya in France (Abyss in demonstration) and already listened to by at least 5 other testers (in addition to Peter) is perhaps a model free from audible defects in the treble, because, apart from a very slight lack of presence in the upper midrange for this headphone, it seems that this headphone make unanimity on the 6 French testers (from what I've read in the thread Abyss HCFR).

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What amp did you test it on?

purrin said:

   
What amp did you test it on?

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My short answer ... 
 
 

Listened and compared headphones
 
 

Fostex HP- A8, Auralic Taurus, and Stax SRM727 amplifiers
 
 

The amplifier Eddie Current Electra, S10 Aurender server, the PS Audio dac PerfectWave
 
Links pics : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177887423.html#p177887423
 
Assessments of Pierre Paya in French Forum (HCFR) (translation)
 
“We used a Fostex HP-A8 and Auralic Taurus. The SR009 was powered by an Eddie Current Electra.
The Fostex is a bit less "punchy" than the Taurus but we preferred to the Abyss for a greater transparency.
I look forward RKV mk III. I can not have a RKV mk II for me. The times are long and I sell them before they arrive! “
 
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177888750.html#p177888750
 
 
Assessments of Pierre Paya about Abyss, also (in french)
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177878059.html#p177878059
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177886629.html#p177886629
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177888750.html#p177888750
 
and Superfred 21, also (in french)
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177891911.html#p177891911
 
 
Assessments of Dub about Abyss (translation)
(Nb : Dub is an “veteran “ on HCFR (25500 posts !), very experimented about headphone and amps)
 
“ In the foregoing, for comparison with Abyss, when I say K1000, K1000 mean + AI500.”
“ In the foregoing, for comparison with Abyss, when I say AMT AMT mean + POA-S10.”
“ In the foregoing, for comparison with Abyss, when I say HD800, HD800 mean + WA22.”
“ Finally, I've already reported the existence of a EarTubes1 in my system. We can add the purchase of a RKV (in 2006, in occasion) Model 1984 (this is not a mK-I,-II or a mK, but if it were, a mK-0 - is mounting Helmut Becker, published in Elrad:
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Verstae ... 805-KH.htm
It is Retube (in siemens) and its use with the K1000, the AMT or AKG K701 as the K340, the 240M, or even Beyer etc.. works well with just about everything I was able to connect. I use it almost but ...”
 
 (great trilogy report about abyss by dub) (in french)
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177900249.html#p177900249
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177900251.html#p177900251
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177900252.html#p177900252
 
 
And with the RKV mk III (Assessments of Pierre Paya about Abyss) (translation)
 
“ I received this morning dub the Abyss that I had lent him.
So rather than sending it directly to the new destination (which I did, but after!) I could not resist the urge to unpack and listen to an hour on the RKV III in symmetrical course.
This is gorgeous, really beautiful. At all levels, this set is for me the most successful headphone set that is given to me to hear ...”
 

 
(Pierre Paya in French Forum about Audiovalve RKV mk3 (HCFR) )
link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177905941.html#p177905941
 
Eric

n3rdling said:

  Abyss has some of the worst treble out there (largely due to the single ended magnetic assembly) and tonality is pretty off.  Until those issues are fixed, they're not in contention for "state of the art", "revolutionary", or whatever other attention grabbing terms you come up with.

Click to expand...

We are so many deaf (purrin and Muppetface too) that acute is not perfect Ok, but say they are the worst acute premium headset is a joke but you're a pro Electrostatic the Abyss had no chance.

 
 
Those two these, on the picture above (Abyss + RKV mk III) are clearly made ​​for each other : they are very "German" on the edges: it's heavy, it's square, it's effective, it's constructed as an assault tank (King Tiger-II or Leopard-VI model) and it works "fire god". Aesthetics is what it is ; it may be the next step, if upgrade, one day, there is. . 
 
Eric

eric65 said:

  No, this is a serious post.

JPS Lab due out in spring 2014 more affordable versions of the Abyss.
The Abyss is currently the flagship JPS Lab, its price is elitist, but he wants to be the best headphones world products. All this corresponds to a specific trade policy.

If Abyss deserves its place among the best headphones in the world, other brands of headphones that do not have this innovative (and efficient)  technology have a priori reason to worry. This is my point of view.
 
Eric

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I've tried the Abyss (in less a less than ideal setting unfortunately), and these are my thoughts on it. 

- I didn't sound like it was worth 4 HD 800s. It's arguable that it's even better, or on par. This isn't a fair statement, because the room was somewhat noisy. 
- More technical doesn't mean better sounding, better sounding means better sounding. 
- They are supremely uncomfortable, hard to (wait, not at all?) adjust. I feel comfort is one of the most important things in a headphone. 

I feel it's overpriced, overrated with precious dollars going into marketing - though many would say that of my entry level gear too. 

 

In France prices are worse ...
 
Prices Abyss in France (Europe):  6,000 €
Price of AudioValve RKV Mark 3 (normal version "black"): 4,000 € 
(tax included)
 
Eric

maxvla said:

Yes, I remember, it was... right now, still top of the heap nearly 5 years later.

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Haha well said

jon-lf said:

   
I've tried the Abyss (in less a less than ideal setting unfortunately), and these are my thoughts on it. 

- I didn't sound like it was worth 4 HD 800s. It's arguable that it's even better, or on par. This isn't a fair statement, because the room was somewhat noisy. 
- More technical doesn't mean better sounding, better sounding means better sounding. 
- They are supremely uncomfortable, hard to (wait, not at all?) adjust. I feel comfort is one of the most important things in a headphone. 

I feel it's overpriced, overrated with precious dollars going into marketing - though many would say that of my entry level gear too. 

 

Click to expand...

 
As an improvement to be made to the Abyss  (especially for its current price),  it seems to me desirable that JPS Lab addresses a flaw that can be annoying : the lack in height adjustment of the earpads of this headphone, which can cause adjustment problems, especially with the "small heads"  (Nb : do not see it in pejorative appearance). 
An ajustement system with height adjustable for this headphone and with gimbal, as the Stax SR-009 have , would be ideal and would take full advantage of the beautiful (and comfortable) earpads genuine leather of the Abyss, without having to crush the earpads on ears for a matter of geometry in space and ergonomics.
 

 
 
Eric

purrin said:

   
I've measured x2 Abyss (one pre-production different from Tyll's pair and the other my own production pair) and they are both similar to Tyll's measurements.
 
 
It's not necessarily the single-ended thing because otherwise we'd be seeing a lot of distortion throughout the band, including the bass, which we aren't. The treble issue seems to be caused by reflections from the baffle and the cable (not a fan of the stock cable), both easy fixes.

Click to expand...

It should effect the extremes.  Is the sub bass distortion on the Abyss pretty low?  Is the cable not shielded and introducing noise or why do you think it's causing distortion in the treble?
 

superfred21 said:

  We are so many deaf (purrin and Muppetface too) that acute is not perfect Ok, but say they are the worst acute premium headset is a joke but you're a pro Electrostatic the Abyss had no chance.

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I don't really understand what you're trying to say, but I'm not suggesting anybody is deaf for liking the Abyss.  In the past I've said I can totally understand why it'd be a person's favorite headphone.  The two issues I pointed out are pretty big problems though so I'd never buy one unless I modified it and possibly used EQ.  What was the rough average age of the French listening group? 

n3rdling said:

   What was the rough average age of the French listening group? 

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By rule of thumb : approximately 40 to 45 years, so with an less good ears that if they had the age of my sons (aged 8 and 10 years)  
 
Some defects in treble may be hidden thereby?
 
Eric

Yep that's certainly possible