Originally Posted by Bones13
Do you ever listen to the K-1000s with the sub at the same time? Was something popular back in the day.
ohhhhh yes, I did! Quite a lot. With one of the best woofers ever made, the Backes Mueller U-Sub2, but also the Audio Pro B2-50, and the Velodyne Ultra 1000. They must be real SUB -Woofers because all you need is the lowest octave from 20 to 40 Hz (I will call it sub-bass in the following). And here is the problem: not with the woofer, but with the expectations.... Many thought by using a subwoofer, they could, in combination with a AKG-1000 give the music that "physical" feeling they are missing compared to their loudspeakers. But the frequencies that are providing this physical impression are much higher, I would say between around 60 to 120 Hz (I will call it upper bass in the following, knowing that this is not exactly how this term is commonly used, but it suits this context here better).
Now, there is a very different perception of sub- and upper- bass. You can test yourself with a pair of speakers that already provide sufficient "upper physical bass", but not the sub-region.. now you add a sub for the lowest octave. Most less-experienced audience would not even recognize that you added something. For them this upper bass is perceived being "physical" and sufficient; they kind of feel it as punch or power or whateveryoumightcallit, and this is most important to them when judging bass quality. This is also what is mostly expected when a sub is added to the K-1000...
Now, if you try to add the subwoofer in this upper bass range you would have the headphone and the sub playing parallel in that frequency range.
It is then
a) quite difficult to get it phase coherent (also refer to below comment about moving around with your headphones on) and
b) sounds unclean / undefined and over-emphasized or in other words too "fat" or kind of "wooly" in that frequency-range. Even if you turn the sub's volume very low. It is very hard to get the AKG-1000 just halfway harmonized with the sub.
Some were also blaming the sub's speed being not fast enough for the K-1000 to integrate, but I can not confirm this, because the U-Sub2 which I used is definitely one of the fastest if not the fastest of all subs.
Here the U-Sub2 between some of my speakers...
So, the expectations to get this physical bass feeling were mostly not fulfilled.
Edited by musikaladin - 2/28/14 at 7:29am
I even tried to use the K-1000 with a high pass filter to avoid the integration issues, but the music then sounded anaemic and artificial, even if the sub brought back the missing frequency range. Still not good.
But between 20 and 40 Hz the story is a totally different one. Here the K -1000 already is rather "laid back" and also the frequency's wave-length is much longer. Both factors support a easier integration of the sub: volume-wise and phase-wise.
And then the effect is great. Yes, surely more presence of the music, but rather in a better perception of space than physically feeling bass-vibrations. Of course you can feel something if the recording has it, but again, as explained above, that's not exactly what most people normally would associate with "physical bass".
I just do not use this configuration because a) it is not nice for the other family members always hearing just sub-bass without any relation to music, and b) I would have to re-adjust my sub every time I change from speaker to headphone and back, and also any time I change my listening position with the headphones... because my phase relation to the headphones is independent from my position in the room, whereas those of the sub isn't...