danz03 said:

I think what sounds 'more musical' is different for everyone, depends on one's taste, hearing and interpretation of it.

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which is my point and these kind of discussions end up being about semantics more than anything else

up late said:

which is my point and these kind of discussions end up being about semantics more than anything else

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+1

doctacosmos said:

Greatly appreciated input and I think you just helped me realize the difference between a monitor and a musical headphone. Seems akg tried to blend them but still presents its monitor dna more than anything. Thanks a bunch.

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pataburd said:

When I think of "musicality", I tend to advert primarily to tonality.  It would be interesting to find out how others qualify this generic and often ambiguous term.

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this is where it all stemmed from. I wasn't asking what phone was more musical and why. Pataburd mentioned tonality as being a musical attribute and then said it would be interesting to find out how other qualify the rather rather generic and often ambiguous term. So I asked simply what characteristics of headphones portray tonality.

Up late, I'm sorry for possibly sounding rash as I took one of your comments as you degrading me when really it wasn't degrading at all lmao. I used the word ponderous in the wrong sense. I thought you were saying I was clumsy with my words and it was getting ridiculously over the top and since I didn't see you attacking everyone and your post was right after mine I thought you were saying me. I didn't see any reason for an attack on me so I googled ponderous and now I feel like an idiot. Please apologize for my misunderstanding.

up late said:

think this discussion is getting too ponderous and ot

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no need to apologise man

I just got a used K812 and think they fit very nicely between my HD800's and Audeze LCD 2rev2 (non-Fazor) ... The HD 800's to my ears lack the bass needed to round out errr. balance things. Listening to an HD 800 reminds me of the early days of CD's and portable CD players... After a while all the portable CD players started coming with Bass Boost to compensate....
 

 
The Audeze hits the Bass really well. You can almost feel the bass.... The K812's are good down low and nice and airy up through the mid's to the highs... Don't ask me about tonality, musicality, and or Prat (& Whitney Houston?) - I know what my ears like and they like the K812's a lot! I have to try the HD800's with a couple of warmer dacs to find one that pairs well. I really wish the K812's came in a balanced configuration which would really allow them to shine at their fullest potential. Being limited to TRS outputs with a $1000+ Headphone is disappointing but C'est la vie.
 
The K812's can run with just about any dac/pc/smartphone/tablet and sound really good which puts it in a different class altogether. My Audeze and HD800 require a good dac to start shining whereas the K812 can and will do a lot more with a lot less... I've been pleasantly surprised by the AKG K812's and wish I would have gotten them first instead of the HD 800's.
 
I'm back and forth between the stock cable and a Moon Audio Blue Dragon. These are the first headphones I can put on and literally forget I have them on... Really comfortable. Pricey yes but soon they'll be for $1000 without Massdrop needed and if you subtract the cost of the Omega Stand then you can start justifying owning a pair...
 
 
 Peace...  

herueyes said:

  I just got a used K812 and think they fit very nicely between my HD800's and Audeze LCD 2rev2 (non-Fazor) ... The HD 800's to my ears lack the bass needed to round out errr. balance things. Listening to an HD 800 reminds me of the early days of CD's and portable CD players... After a while all the portable CD players started coming with Bass Boost to compensate....
 

 
The Audeze hits the Bass really well. You can almost feel the bass.... The K812's are good down low and nice and airy up through the mid's to the highs... Don't ask me about tonality, musicality, and or Prat (& Whitney Houston?)

- I know what my ears like and they like the K812's a lot! I have to try the HD800's with a couple of warmer dacs to find one that pairs well. I really wish the K812's came in a balanced configuration which would really allow them to shine at their fullest potential. Being limited to TRS outputs with a $1000+ Headphone is disappointing but C'est la vie.
 
The K812's can run with just about any dac/pc/smartphone/tablet and sound really good which puts it in a different class altogether. My Audeze and HD800 require a good dac to start shining whereas the K812 can and will do a lot more with a lot less... I've been pleasantly surprised by the AKG K812's and wish I would have gotten them first instead of the HD 800's.
 
I'm back and forth between the stock cable and a Moon Audio Blue Dragon. These are the first headphones I can put on and literally forget I have them on... Really comfortable. Pricey yes but soon they'll be for $1000 without Massdrop needed and if you subtract the cost of the Omega Stand then you can start justifying owning a pair...
 
 
 Peace...

 

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Congrats and enjoy.   I keep finding myself putting the 812's  on leaving my x's in the box.  I don't know what to think about that.

MuppetFace,
 
I always enjoy your writing and this time, boy was it effective!
You SOLD me on these! I've been seeking a pair of AKGs that I could have some FUN with.
 
When I was working in studios during my tenure at Atlantic Records the K240 (that's the biggie w/ the gold-lining right??) was always a monitoring tool -  strictly for singers to hear themselves - and it was usually used by the back-up singers. I rarely saw any of our artists use the things. I could never get them to sit on my head correctly, as all the pairs in the studios were beat to s__. And the few times I tried em I just didn't like their musical presentation at all.
 
Last year however @warrenpchi brought a pair of the Quincy Jones model for me to hear (forget the #) and I enjoyed those paired w/ my CEntrance HiFi-M8 - but not enough to go out and buy them.
 
Your Impressions piece has me itching to check these out!!
And I will ASAP!!
 
Hats OFF!
GREAT job

To me, even without balanced out, the soundstage of the K812 is more natural sounding and much wider than most other top tier headphones running in balanced.

herueyes said:

I just got a used K812 and think they fit very nicely between my HD800's and Audeze LCD 2rev2 (non-Fazor) I really wish the K812's came in a balanced configuration which would really allow them to shine at their fullest potential. Being limited to TRS outputs with a $1000+ Headphone is disappointing but C'est la vie.

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The K240 were very popular for tracking in the recording studios because they were semi open so the talent isn't totally isolated from the environment sonically but they don't leak too much sound into the microphone at the same time, so it's some kind of compromise. I personally prefer closed ones for tracking if the talents are ok with them. The only times headphones were used in the studio were mostly for tracking so the sound quality is more or less irrelevant.

mikemercer said:

MuppetFace,

When I was working in studios during my tenure at Atlantic Records the K240 (that's the biggie w/ the gold-lining right??) was always a monitoring tool -  strictly for singers to hear themselves - and it was usually used by the back-up singers. I rarely saw any of our artists use the things. I could never get them to sit on my head correctly, as all the pairs in the studios were beat to s__. And the few times I tried em I just didn't like their musical presentation at all.

Last year however @warrenpchi
 brought a pair of the Quincy Jones model for me to hear (forget the #) and I enjoyed those paired w/ my CEntrance HiFi-M8 - but not enough to go out and buy them.

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danz03 said:

To me, even without balanced out, the soundstage of the K812 is more natural sounding and much wider than most other top tier headphones running in balanced.

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That is my impression as well. Could not care less about balanced to be honest... And would never consider trying to rewire the K812 to change that aspect.

danz03 said:

The K240 were very popular for tracking in the recording studios because they were semi open so the talent isn't totally isolated from the environment sonically but they don't leak too much sound into the microphone at the same time, so it's some kind of compromise. I personally prefer closed ones for tracking if the talents are ok with them. The only times headphones were used in the studio were mostly for tracking so the sound quality is more or less irrelevant.

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Yes, I did see Michael O-Reilly (he was Mr. Mardins main engineer) use them for tracking - depending on where we were.
 
I often use my LCD-XCs for tracking these days when I'm working on a project up here - used the Mad Dogs before those.
 
I see what you're saying about the sound quality being irrelevant - especially in that case.
But man, did AKG position themselves well in that segment right?? Those cans were everywhere!! 

I can't rememeber using any other brand of headphones for tracking in recording studios apart from AKG before the midn90s. I had a singer complained to me once that the K240 were obstructing her jaw movements while she sang, I'm sure there wouldn't be too many singers being happy with the LCD-XC for tracking though. Nowadays I prefer to use the hd25 for tracking, they don't leak much sound, and won't obstruct jaw movements.

mikemercer said:

Yes, I did see Michael O-Reilly (he was Mr. Mardins main engineer) use them for tracking - depending on where we were.

I often use my LCD-XCs for tracking these days when I'm working on a project up here - used the Mad Dogs before those.

I see what you're saying about the sound quality being irrelevant - especially in that case.
But man, did AKG position themselves well in that segment right?? Those cans were everywhere!! 

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Sub.

Does anyone listen to a lot of classical music - chamber, orchestral, choral, opera, solo instruments?  How do they perform compared to your other flag-ship headphones?  I am interested in accurate reproduction of instruments and voices, inner resolution (hear different themes and sections inside the orchestra) and dynamics (ability to keep up with "big" dynamic shifts in Mahler, Sibelius, Bruckner symphonies).