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iCAN Amp Review: A New Amp that Gives You More: More Bass, More Soundstage and More Detail - Page 26

post #376 of 392

does this have more power than the fiio e9 and if it doesnt what does have more power at around £300.thanks

post #377 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by ati832 View Post

does this have more power than the fiio e9 and if it doesnt what does have more power at around £300.thanks

Surprisingly, the specs of the iCAN are on the ifi Audio website:
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-ican/

400mW into 32 ohms, 40mW into 600 ohms

Perhaps equally surprisingly, the specs of the E09K are on the fiio website:
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000017625376&MenuID=105026003

900mW into 32 ohms


From this I would conclude that the iCAN has about half the power of the E09K rolleyes.gif

However, you have not told us what headphone you are attempting to drive. What is its impedance and its sensitivity as this can make a big difference?

Some amps can swing the large voltages necessary for high impedance cans but cannot produce the higher current needed by lower impedance cans. For others the opposite can be true.

The sensitivity of the headphone also plays a part and this varies hugely. As you are requiring more power, can we assume you are using an insensitive headphone?
post #378 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear View Post

Surprisingly, the specs of the iCAN are on the ifi Audio website:
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-ican/

400mW into 32 ohms, 40mW into 600 ohms

Perhaps equally surprisingly, the specs of the E09K are on the fiio website:
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000017625376&MenuID=105026003

900mW into 32 ohms


From this I would conclude that the iCAN has about half the power of the E09K rolleyes.gif

However, you have not told us what headphone you are attempting to drive. What is its impedance and its sensitivity as this can make a big difference?

Some amps can swing the large voltages necessary for high impedance cans but cannot produce the higher current needed by lower impedance cans. For others the opposite can be true.

The sensitivity of the headphone also plays a part and this varies hugely. As you are requiring more power, can we assume you are using an insensitive headphone?

Hi, noob here about all the technicality but do love my music like all of us here. Do you think it has the current and voltages to drive the HD650.I'm looking to replace my E9 and the V2 iCan have gain settings that will also make it usable with my more sensitive iems without the hissing issue. Thanks in advance.
Edited by Leo888 - 8/4/14 at 5:20am
post #379 of 392
Sennheiser state the HD650 as having a sensitivity of 103dB (I assume per mW). This is higher than my T1 which is 102dB. The iCAN is more than sufficient for the T1 so it should be OK for the HD650 too.

Fiio don't state how much voltage the E09K can output but I'd be surprised if it is not enough given their claims for the device. If the E09K is not enough for the HD650 then either you are deaf or you soon will be.
post #380 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear View Post

Sennheiser state the HD650 as having a sensitivity of 103dB (I assume per mW). This is higher than my T1 which is 102dB. The iCAN is more than sufficient for the T1 so it should be OK for the HD650 too.

Fiio don't state how much voltage the E09K can output but I'd be surprised if it is not enough given their claims for the device. If the E09K is not enough for the HD650 then either you are deaf or you soon will be.

Thanks for the feedback technobear. The E9 definitely have a lot of power and drove the HD650 pretty well. But on sensitive iems, there's little play room with the volume pot as it gets really loud pretty fast even on low gain. Therefore, I'm kind of looking for a solution and at the same time hoping to get some improvements in SQ with the replacement amp. Any thoughts if the iCan will be an upgrade to the E9. Thanks in advance.
post #381 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear View Post

Sennheiser state the HD650 as having a sensitivity of 103dB (I assume per mW). This is higher than my T1 which is 102dB. The iCAN is more than sufficient for the T1 so it should be OK for the HD650 too.

Fiio don't state how much voltage the E09K can output but I'd be surprised if it is not enough given their claims for the device. If the E09K is not enough for the HD650 then either you are deaf or you soon will be.

 

 

Hey, have you maybe tried your T1's with Schiit Asgard 2 by any chance? I'm currently deciding between Asgard and iCan for T1. I don't really need the 3D and bass boost effects, I purely need a good sounding, slightly warm amp with plenty of power. As far as specs go it seems Asgard has much more power, almost 5 times as much at 600 ohms.

post #382 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

Hey, have you maybe tried your T1's with Schiit Asgard 2 by any chance?

No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

I don't really need the 3D and bass boost effects...

Clearly you have not yet heard them. When you hear them, you will want them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

As far as specs go it seems Asgard has much more power, almost 5 times as much at 600 ohms.

So instead of having 2 or 3 times more power then the T1 needs, you could have 10 or 15 times more blink.gif
post #383 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear View Post


No.
Clearly you have not yet heard them. When you hear them, you will want them.
So instead of having 2 or 3 times more power then the T1 needs, you could have 10 or 15 times more blink.gif

 

 

No, I seriously don't want any bass boosts, any cross feed circuits or any other coloration, because when I do have the need for that, I use VST plug-ins that allow me far more customization.  As for as the power goes, I don't think 40 mW's is 2-3 times more than T1's need. First of all, they're not just 600 ohm headphones, their impedance spikes at almost 1400 ohms in the bass to low-mids region. Considering how quickly the power output of the iCan drops off with higher impedance loads, it's safe to say it could not put out more than 5 to 10 mW's of power into a 1400 ohm load. I've had plenty of amps that can deliver loads of power to low impedance headphones, but only about 100 mW's or less into 600 Ohm loads, and they simply don't have enough authority with T1's, and sometimes can't deliver enough volume with some recordings. My Musical Fidelity M1HPAp for example has 1,2W @ 32 Ohms, but I can still comfortably turn it all the way to full volume with binaural recordings and not have enough volume or authority.

post #384 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

No, I seriously don't want any bass boosts, any cross feed circuits or any other coloration, because when I do have the need for that, I use VST plug-ins that allow me far more customization.

OK, so you are concerned about coloration and presumably distortion... and you are using DSP rolleyes.gif

iFi Audio's analogue circuits do far less damage to the music than the pre- and post-ringing introduced by DSP. Then again it depends if your DAC is up to the job as that too may be introducing pre- and post-ringing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

As for as the power goes, I don't think 40 mW's is 2-3 times more than T1's need.

Try learning Ohm's law. That's enough for 118db peaks! Just how quickly do you want to go deaf?
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

First of all, they're not just 600 ohm headphones, their impedance spikes at almost 1400 ohms in the bass to low-mids region. Considering how quickly the power output of the iCan drops off with higher impedance loads, it's safe to say it could not put out more than 5 to 10 mW's of power into a 1400 ohm load.

No. Like I said. Learn Ohm's law. It can still muster 17mW which is enough for 114db peaks! Again, how quickly do you want to go deaf?

If you find the T1 a little bass light, and some do, the level one XBASS on the iCAN is the perfect antidote. The T1 doesn't need more power. It just needs a little lift below 40 Hz.
post #385 of 392

Should not be a problem!

 

V=5
mA=8.33
R=600
W=0.04167

 

http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/beyerdynamic/t-1/with/ifi-audio/micro-ican

 

I'm not a big fan of bass boost and 3D, but I some times use it with some tracks, and it works! but I never use DSP, I haet DSP.

post #386 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear View Post


OK, so you are concerned about coloration and presumably distortion... and you are using DSP rolleyes.gif

iFi Audio's analogue circuits do far less damage to the music than the pre- and post-ringing introduced by DSP. Then again it depends if your DAC is up to the job as that too may be introducing pre- and post-ringing.
Try learning Ohm's law. That's enough for 118db peaks! Just how quickly do you want to go deaf?
No. Like I said. Learn Ohm's law. It can still muster 17mW which is enough for 114db peaks! Again, how quickly do you want to go deaf?

If you find the T1 a little bass light, and some do, the level one XBASS on the iCAN is the perfect antidote. The T1 doesn't need more power. It just needs a little lift below 40 Hz.

 

 

Don't want to be rude, but you don't have to teach me things that I, believe me, know more than enough about.  I learned about Ohms law about 13-14 years ago, but I also learned that it's often irrelevant what specs on paper say when what I hear in practice says otherwise. For example...I have the T1's plugged into the MF M1 now. Now, according to calculations that you used as well, that amp should enable peaks of around 120 db's....but...heh...trust me, turning that amp all the way up is far from 120 db...in fact, it's barely what I'd consider loud enough for pleasant listening with some binaural recordings...so... I just know from my own experience that ANY headphone amp that I've tried and that struggles to put out a lot of power into high impedance loads sounds lifeless and lacks authority with T1's, simply put, doesn't sound that good, and almost as a rule, lacks volume, despite the fact that in theory they should achieve extreme volume levels easily. Amps like Violectric for example that can theoretically output...I don't know...600 or 700 mW's into a 600 ohm load (even though there's no need for that much power) sound considerably more punchy, weighty, with far more authority and control. Why? No idea. That's why I was suspicious of the iCAN's ability to drive them.

 

 

As far as DSP's go, and I almost never use them, that's why I don't want them on my amp, or don't need them. The only DSP's I ever use are very light crossfeed and some light parametric EQ work, that's it. So nothing that will bring any sort of major distortion to the sound. I can easily EQ a bass boost that will imitate a iCan bass boost of about 6-7 db peaking at 20-30 Hz and starting at about 100 Hz. No problem at all, and if I do that now, it sounds slightly more weighty, doesn't distort, etc. That's why I don't see the need to have that on the amp itself....would it be nice to have it sometimes? Sure. But I asked for a comparison between Asgard and iCAN, and stated that I don't really NEED it, therefore, the fact that iCAN has it should not be considered as a reason to go for the iCAN instead of the Asgard.

post #387 of 392

I haven't been on this thread for a long long time. I still use the original iCan - the one without the gain switches at the bottom - and the other day the dealer I bought it from said he would be happy to swop that for a new iCan with the gain switches, without any money top up. Is this a good deal or should I hang on to my "original classic"?

post #388 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

Don't want to be rude, but you don't have to teach me things that I, believe me, know more than enough about. I learned about Ohms law about 13-14 years ago, but I also learned that it's often irrelevant what specs on paper say when what I hear in practice says otherwise. For example...I have the T1's plugged into the MF M1 now. Now, according to calculations that you used as well, that amp should enable peaks of around 120 db's....but...heh...trust me, turning that amp all the way up is far from 120 db...in fact, it's barely what I'd consider loud enough for pleasant listening with some binaural recordings...so...

So you conclude that you are lacking power. I suspect you have a few very quiet recordings there (and maybe a quiet source too) and what you are actually lacking is not power but rather gain. You might try adding a pre-amp and see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

As far as DSP's go, and I almost never use them, that's why I don't want them on my amp, or don't need them.

So you do sometimes use them then. Surely more handy to reach out and flip a switch than faff around with software to engage a DSP - one that will add undesirable ringing to your sound.

BTW, the XBASS and 3D on the iCAN are analogue circuits, not DSP.

iFi Audio could have labelled the XBASS switch 'noughties', 'nineties' and 'eighties' as those are approximately the ages of CDs that benefit from none, a little and a lot of bass boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

I asked for a comparison between Asgard and iCAN, and stated that I don't really NEED it, therefore, the fact that iCAN has it should not be considered as a reason to go for the iCAN instead of the Asgard.

Sorry I've never heard any Schiit. The UK is not full of Schiit like the US is (sorry, couldn't resist, I love you all really biggrin.gif ).

Funny but I already had a great headphone amp and I bought the iCAN because I wanted the two-stage XBASS. I'm very glad I did. I now use the 3D most of the time too.
post #389 of 392
hi guys..anybody here that has a iCAN paired with a HE-560? I checked the power out and its 400mw only..I am not sure if that is sufficient for the HE-560..but would love to know the impressions who owns this setup or have heard it.

The iFi micro iDSD has lots of power but I do not need a dac/amp..I just need a porta amp that I can use at the office..desktop amps are a no go..since they are buly unless it has a very small footprint.

so far Fiio E12, Cayin C5 and the iCAN are the current options I have researched
post #390 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by d1sturb3d View Post

hi guys..anybody here that has a iCAN paired with a HE-560? I checked the power out and its 400mw only..I am not sure if that is sufficient for the HE-560..but would love to know the impressions who owns this setup or have heard it.

The iFi micro iDSD has lots of power but I do not need a dac/amp..I just need a porta amp that I can use at the office..desktop amps are a no go..since they are buly unless it has a very small footprint.

so far Fiio E12, Cayin C5 and the iCAN are the current options I have researched

 

(iUSB/iDAC/iTUBE/iCAN)

 

 

Read this:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129460.0

 

iFi has always had some of the best sounding setups at the show. Made my list several times, but this year was something special. The iFi stack combined with a server and Hifiman HF-560s are, far and away, the best headphone rig I have ever heard. I spent the better part of 2 hours throughout the show coming back and listening to just this setup. I walked around can jam and listened to a lot (not everything) and nothing was even close to the beauty and finesse of this system. I think the whole setup cost less than $2000. Best bass I have ever heard from headphones, really comfortable to wear and incredible smoothness. This is the first time I have ever thought 'ok, I NEED to buy these.' when it comes to headphones. Someday..... Someday.

final thoughts
Anyhoo as I said before, the show was without a doubt much smaller in both enthusiasts attendance and vendor attendance. RMAF peaked 2 years ago I believe and will continue to decline due to numerous other shows around the country becoming more and more popular as well as the average age of us two channel guys going up. CanJam on the other hand has literally exploded out of the Marriott convention hall and spilled into the Atrium. It will not only continue to grow in 2 years time I promise you it will surpass the rest of the show. When you see the vendors at can jam selling shoebox sized boxes hand over fist to guys 35 and younger and compare that to the same retired old two channel shlubs with out turned pockets going to the same rooms they were in last year and still not buying anything you start to understand why. Hifi is dead... Long live Hifi!!!!


Hope you enjoyed reading and for the love of Gawd if you think I'm biased, deaf, or on the take please remember 3 things. 
1. You're an ******* 
2. I am biased
3. Go to any show yourself and come to your own conclusions.


Edited by Vartan - 10/17/14 at 12:14am
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