Audeze measurements
Feb 20, 2013 at 5:24 PM Post #16 of 45
Quote:
 
I have both the LCD-2s and the HD800.  I haven't demo'd the LCD3 myself, I should refrain from making a judgement but many claim it's a whole different level while others claim it's like 5-15% difference.

 
As always - different strokes for different folks.
Which one do you like better - Senny HD 800 or the LCD2?
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 5:32 PM Post #17 of 45
Quote:
 
As always - different strokes for different folks.
Which one do you like better - Senny HD 800 or the LCD2?

 
I love them each for what they do, the LCD's lush rich sound and addicting bass.  The HD800s are technical wizards and supremely comfortable to me.  If the LCD3's do all of this, I'd gladly sell both and just get those but I'm not sure about that.
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 5:39 PM Post #18 of 45
Quote:
 
I have both the LCD-2s and the HD800.  I haven't demo'd the LCD3 myself, I should refrain from making a judgement but many claim it's a whole different level while others claim it's like 5-15% difference.

Objectively it's 5-15% difference (maybe even less), but subjectively it is a lot more. Remember, all high-end gear performance tend to converge toward near-perfection, so they are all in the 99th percentile, but the little differences between them are huge when we actually compare between them, because they are so revealing and have such resolution.
 
Specifically relative to LCD2, LCD3 adds a tad more resolution, more smoothness in treble, and more open soundstage, through a combination of its thinner membrane and exclusive earpads. 
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 5:46 PM Post #19 of 45
Quote:
Objectively it's 5-15% difference (maybe even less), but subjectively it is a lot more. Remember, all high-end gear performance tend to converge toward near-perfection, so they are all in the 99th percentile, but the little differences between them are huge when we actually compare between them, because they are so revealing and have such resolution.
 
Specifically relative to LCD2, LCD3 adds a tad more resolution, more smoothness in treble, and more open soundstage, through a combination of its thinner membrane and exclusive earpads. 


Thanks. I don't want to pay twice (when upgrading to get the next 15%) - you end up paying more. So I'd probably pony up and get the LCD3.
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 7:52 PM Post #20 of 45
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Call me extremist/whatever but for me good engineering starts with good, reproducible measurements.
 

nah, you sound more like a true engineer to me, I checked the graphs LCD-2 Rev2 looked consistent enough, LCD-3 did vary  but that was covered by Tyll I think
 
I too prefer repeatable measurements, this is why I don't always trust amateur measurements
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 8:08 PM Post #21 of 45
Quote:
nah, you sound more like a true engineer to me, I checked the graphs LCD-2 Rev2 looked consistent enough, LCD-3 did vary  but that was covered by Tyll I think
 
I too prefer repeatable measurements, this is why I don't always trust amateur measurements


Thank you. I'd buy LCD3 in a New York second if I knew they have reproducible good measurements.
I red the Tyll's article.
While measuring the LCD3 he's got pretty inconsistent results from the LCD3 which in a way doesn't make sense.
They're supposed to be the better ones - with a better driver.
I also asked this question to Audeze - we'll have to wait and see.
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 8:23 PM Post #22 of 45
Quote:
 
Do you own an Audeze can? Changing subject - is LCD3 worth when compared to LCD2?

 


Well, personally I don't think an LCD3 is better than an LCD2 Price/Performance wise.  Of course, the LCD3 is going to beat the LCD2 in every SQ category, but I'm not going to pay an extra $800-1000 for 5-20% improvement and an even darker signature. Here is my pair of LCD-2.2s I ordered on 1/08/13.  It was on back order since the dealer ran out so this is a very recent version. I had to wait till 1/18/13 to receive it after the dealer got a new shipment from Audeze.  As you can see, the signature Audeze FR almost flat bass/mids leading to the small roll off at upper mids/highs.  Audeze has been trying to address people's complaint of the headphones sounding too dark/roll off in the treble.  As you can see from the graph, it looks like they did somewhat compared to other people's FR graphs I've found on the forums. The LCD-2.2 is the just the perfect darkness for me.  Any darker(aka LCD3) I'd fall asleep.   
 
Also NOTE: Audeze was sneaky with their Serial Numbering,  which is randomized.  Why? because the LCD2 has had MANY MANY revisions since it was first revealed, and many problems addressed.  The resale value of low S/N numbered LCD2s would be drastically lower than higher S/N ones if the LCD2s were numbered sequentially and matched the progress of the revisions.
 
The randomized S/N has a two-fold effect: 1) allows Audeze to sell low S/N LCD2s they already produced, but had lots of imperfections. 2) it allows LCD2 owners to resell theirs without
worrying too much about resale value. (I doubt you can message Audeze to say, "Hey Audeze I want to buy this LCD2 from someone on head-fi, can you tell me when this one: S/N: XXXXXXX was manufactured?" they would be shooting themselves and the Reseller in the foot if they told you)
    
Also, Boerd, the inconsistency in the measurements on innerfidelity are affected by the Randomized S/N as well, you'd have to know the actual manufactured date for the LCD3s measured to know about the improvements/revisions/consistency etc. 
 
Edit: the build quality on the LCD2.2s give off a very good feeling.  The weight, sturdiness of the components, etc make the LCD2.2 feel like its worth $800-1000 at least compared to some other
flimsy headphones.  Too bad there is a small design flaw.  The hinges that fit into the wood cups, that is an a heavily stressed area that it would crack easily.  The wood has already cracked at one of the hinges and I need to send it in for repairs.  The thickness of the wood is 1.7 cm, the hole drilled down the middle is 0.6 cm in diameter.  leaving the wood at 0.55 cm thick on either side of the hole.  Thus, I was not really surprised when the wood at the hinges had cracked.  
 
 

 
Feb 20, 2013 at 9:37 PM Post #23 of 45
I should say that your graph looks remarkably close to mine. And I've found the treble is perfectly balanced to my taste. Seems like there is a difference between internal Audeze revisions rather than samples variation.

 
Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 PM Post #24 of 45
Yea our graphs are very similar, but mine has a slightly higher 5khz bump and the dip at 3khz is slightly shallower than yours. 
Does this make mine sound brighter than yours? very very slightly if at all.  Is this this difference statistically significant?  Nope, probably not.
these differences are probably within the tolerances during manufacturing.
 
I do love the treble of the LCD2.2s though.  They have the perfect amount of darkness up top.
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM Post #25 of 45
Yea our graphs are very similar, but mine has a slightly higher 5khz bump and the dip at 3khz is slightly shallower than yours. 
Does this make mine sound brighter than yours? very very slightly if at all.  Is this this difference statistically significant?  Nope, probably not.
these differences are probably within the tolerances during manufacturing.
 
I do love the treble of the LCD2.2s though.  They have the perfect amount of darkness up top.
 
Notice how our serial numbers are so close it seems like they were in the same batch? HAHA almost half a year difference.
gotta love the randomized serial numbers
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 10:15 PM Post #26 of 45
Quote:
Yea our graphs are very similar, but mine has a slightly higher 5khz bump and the dip at 3khz is slightly shallower than yours. 
Does this make mine sound brighter than yours? very very slightly if at all.  Is this this difference statistically significant?  Nope, probably not.
these differences are probably within the tolerances during manufacturing.
 
I do love the treble of the LCD2.2s though.  They have the perfect amount of darkness up top.


Or the positioning of the phones on the dummy head.
Purrin in HD800 thread mentioned that out of the bunch of HD800 he measured they all came out the same despite differences in manufacturer supplied graphs.
I can tell that achieving proper seal with their hard pads can be quite tricky.
 
How many phones come with FQ graph anyway besides Audeze and HD800?
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 10:19 PM Post #27 of 45
Quote:
Also NOTE: Audeze was sneaky with their Serial Numbering,  which is randomized.  Why? because the LCD2 has had MANY MANY revisions since it was first revealed, and many problems addressed.  The resale value of low S/N numbered LCD2s would be drastically lower than higher S/N ones if the LCD2s were numbered sequentially and matched the progress of the revisions.
 
The randomized S/N has a two-fold effect: 1) allows Audeze to sell low S/N LCD2s they already produced, but had lots of imperfections. 2) it allows LCD2 owners to resell theirs without
worrying too much about resale value. (I doubt you can message Audeze to say, "Hey Audeze I want to buy this LCD2 from someone on head-fi, can you tell me when this one: S/N: XXXXXXX was manufactured?" they would be shooting themselves and the Reseller in the foot if they told you)
    

Sounds like quite an elaborate conspiracy theory, but don’t you think the test "date" on the frequency response chart kind of gives it all away?
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM Post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyu64 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
"...Too bad there is a small design flaw.  The hinges that fit into the wood cups, that is an a heavily stressed area that it would crack easily.  The wood has already cracked at one of the hinges and I need to send it in for repairs.  The thickness of the wood is 1.7 cm, the hole drilled down the middle is 0.6 cm in diameter.  leaving the wood at 0.55 cm thick on either side of the hole.  Thus, I was not really surprised when the wood at the hinges had cracked.  "
...
 
 
 

 
Well - in that case bamboo is probably more suited for the job as it is engineered wood, harder (contains industrial resin) - as long as it's not made in China (dangerous chemicals).
Now I really don't know what to do. :frowning2:
 
Feb 20, 2013 at 10:48 PM Post #29 of 45
Quote:
Or the positioning of the phones on the dummy head.
Purrin in HD800 thread mentioned that out of the bunch of HD800 he measured they all came out the same despite differences in manufacturer supplied graphs.
I can tell that achieving proper seal with their hard pads can be quite tricky.
 
How many phones come with FQ graph anyway besides Audeze and HD800?

Not many, because a lot of the other flagships measure horridly and would cause anyone knowing a bit about objective measurements to faint.
Audeze and Sennheiser offer FR graphs because they measure very well and would only help sell the headphones. 
 
Quote:
 
Well - in that case bamboo is probably more suited for the job as it is engineered wood, harder (contains industrial resin) - as long as it's not made in China (dangerous chemicals).
Now I really don't know what to do. :frowning2:

Yea, see I hadn't thought of that problem when I chose to go with rosewood instead of bamboo.  The continuous grain on the rosewood cups look soooo much nicer than the stripped, incongruous bamboo cups.  :frowning2: now I have to pay shipping and send it back. 
 
Quote:
Sounds like quite an elaborate conspiracy theory, but don’t you think the test "date" on the frequency response chart kind of gives it all away?

As much of a conspiracy theory as it may seem, you gotta admit though you'd have to have the ORIGINAL graph to know which revision you're getting.  If you look on the for sale forum and search for the LCD2/3 for sale threads.  How many actually know what revision they have? How many have a picture of the original FR graph? And from those people, how many Graphs can you
clearly see the testing date? Would you take a good photo of your FR graph showing the date of testing knowing it would devalue your headphones? If everyone had perfect integrity, sure
we'd have no problem. 
 

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