[JaZZ]

 
I'm going to add an external amplifier which will probably put the soundstage on par what I heard from the HDVD800 or even better. 

 
Just a warning: The external amp will degrade the signal – so any soundstage increase will be an artificial addition.

 

[punit]

   
Just a warning: The external amp will degrade the signal – so any soundstage increase will be an artificial addition.

 Are you saying that even a high quality amp will degrade the signal compared to the amp in Hugo ? So, far example a Hugo on its own driving HD 800 will sound better than Hugo (as a Dac) feeding DNA Stratus ?

 

[joespride]

Good Saturday morning folks, Curious does anyone have a burn in estimate for the HD800
 
Initial impressions straight outta the box are pretty far from my expectations based on the many comments posted here and around the net, I was expecting a speaker type soundstage,  did not happen, I was expecting excessive high end brightness, nope did not happen, I was expecting poor bass, this did not happen either
 
System consists of pc running Jriver with flac to Audiophilleo AP1 with Pure Power, to my Upgraded Havana Dac, to MY ampsandsound Kenzie Headphone amp (using the 32 ohm tap, tried the 600 ohm tap which seemed louder but not better) stock HD800 and cable
 
need some extended listening time with them to see if fatigue becomes an issue................incredible bass impact and frankly they seem to dig plenty deep...............Sheffield drum tracks is sounding pretty damn good.................comfort is a plus compared to my HE500

 

[kapanak]

Good Saturday morning folks, Curious does anyone have a burn in estimate for the HD800

Initial impressions straight outta the box are pretty far from my expectations based on the many comments posted here and around the net, I was expecting a speaker type soundstage,  did not happen, I was expecting excessive high end brightness, nope did not happen, I was expecting poor bass, this did not happen either

System consists of pc running Jriver with flac to Audiophilleo AP1 with Pure Power, to my Upgraded Havana Dac, to MY ampsandsound Kenzie Headphone amp (using the 32 ohm tap, tried the 600 ohm tap which seemed louder but not better) stock HD800 and cable

need some extended listening time with them to see if fatigue becomes an issue................incredible bass impact and frankly they seem to dig plenty deep...............Sheffield drum tracks is sounding pretty damn good.................comfort is a plus compared to my HE500

For actual mechanical burn-in, probably less than a handful of hours.

For brain burn-in, probably a week of regular listening

And you might want to match a well known amp to this HD800 to enjoy it even more. Easy recommendation is Schiit Valhalla 2.

 

[joespride]

Had the valhalla 1 before I got the Kenzie....................I really enjoyed the Valhalla most times.  I loved the holographic image it sometimes portrayed using the Bifrost Uber
 
appreciate the response, the cans have about 40 hours use
 
 
so I am guessing pretty much burnt in

 

[rayfalkner]

Quote:

For actual mechanical burn-in, probably less than a handful of hours.

For brain burn-in, probably a week of regular listening

And you might want to match a well known amp to this HD800 to enjoy it even more. Easy recommendation is Schiit Valhalla 2.

 
A handful of hours is too generous, I'll say 1 hour of normal use, maximum, primarily just to straighten the cable a bit and get rid of that strange, new-from-factory smell

But I'll drag my sorry existence out of here lest I'll get tied to a pole and stoned to death by the pros of burn-ins while they yell "Shame!" repeatedly.
 
*In a more serious tone; personally I don't hear any differences when I listened through my brand new HD800 compared to the shop's stock and already-veteran HD800 that I also listened to, side by side right in front of the dealer. Or perhaps my ears are too distracted by the smell of the new pad, could be a possibility.

 

[joespride]

No Bashing here..............who's to say what someone else hears...................I can say for my ears the only times I have heard a difference with burn is is on headphones, I am guessing the intimacy of the experience allows my older ears to pick up some nuance that escapes my ears on speakers
 
For instance I had seen COUNTLESS testimony that HD800 has an out of head experience akin to nearfield speaker listening..............My experience with nearfield must have been vastly different than others as I honestly dont hear the huge gains in spacial imagery, Of course this may be gear related but my setup is pretty respectable IMHO  I honestly have a hard time getting sound stage from cans period and feel like it is more imagined ( that or my definition of soundstage is different than others ) I did come to headphones out of necessity from set amps and horn speakers and so soundstage for me means having everything out in front with some centered image as well as artifacts in the material coming from various distances from center to wide left or right. Mentally I can not get myself to a place where I imagine no headphones or get lost in the image as I could with speakers
 
No Matter though as both speakers and cans have there strengths and I have come to really enjoy cans

 

[Sorrodje]

yup . Saying the HD800 offers a speaker like experience is at best an overstatement , at worst some serious BS. IT's a headphone. Period. Don't expect speaker experience from any headphone .. but don"'t expect heaphone experience from speakers neither . 

 

 

[BirdManOfCT]

  yup . Saying the HD800 offers a speaker like experience is at best an overstatement , at worst some serious BS. IT's a headphone. Period. Don't expect speaker experienc from any headphone .. but don"'t expect heaphone experience from speakers neither . 

 

True. My speaker system (long gone) was pretty good, but then I'd go to a symphony and be reminded how far my system was from reality. Same for some $200k systems I'd heard. I think my current headphone setup is about on par with my old speaker system, albeit with the inherent differences between headphones and speakers.

 

[kapanak]

  Had the valhalla 1 before I got the Kenzie....................I really enjoyed the Valhalla most times.  I loved the holographic image it sometimes portrayed using the Bifrost Uber
 
appreciate the response, the cans have about 40 hours use
 
 
so I am guessing pretty much burnt in

Ah yes, I did not see the Amp & Sound Kenzie Headphone amp in your comment at first read. Great and respectable amp and most likely a good pairing with the HD800.
I have heard it with the HD800, but found the sound signature closer to that of the Bottlehead Crack than the Valhalla 2. Nice and warm, with musically smooth sound.

 

[joespride]

Kenzie on par (ish) with bottlehead crack ?  Am I correct in that crack is OTL, and Valhalla is OTL, One would expect those 2 to sound similar.  I found the Kenzie to be a bit more neutral than valhalla 1 while retaining some tube warmth
 
I think the combination Kenzie / hd800 is very good, but I do yearn for the Valhalla SQ, It had it's moments

 

[JaZZ]

 

  Just a warning: The external amp will degrade the signal – so any soundstage increase will be an artificial addition.

 Are you saying that even a high quality amp will degrade the signal compared to the amp in Hugo ? So, far example a Hugo on its own driving HD 800 will sound better than Hugo (as a Dac) feeding DNA Stratus ?

 
Yes. Or more precisely: There's no headphone amp in the Hugo; the DAC drives line out and headphones in parallel. You can't improve the signal as it is – there's no internal amp to be bypassed and to improve upon. That said, it's possible that you'll prefer the amped signal – many amps have a euphonic and more forgiving characteristic than the pure direct signal, moreover the HD 800 may benefit from a smoothing and full sounding amp. Or you may think the Hugo doesn't have the ideal synergy with the HD 800 in terms of sonic balance. Or your listening level is too loud for the Hugo's output power (unlikely with the HD 800). However, you'll sacrifice accuracy and transparency compared to the direct connection in any event. There are better methods for correcting the sonic balance according to individual preferences without needless electronics in the signal path and the corresponding signal corruption.

 

[kapanak]

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
Yes. Or more precisely: There's no headphone amp in the Hugo; the DAC drives line out and headphones in parallel. You can't improve the signal as it is – there's no internal amp to be bypassed and to improve upon. That said, it's possible that you'll prefer the amped signal – many amps have a euphonic and more forgiving characteristic than the pure direct signal, moreover the HD 800 may benefit from a smoothing and full sounding amp. Or you may think the Hugo doesn't have the ideal synergy with the HD 800 in terms of sonic balance. Or your listening level is too loud for the Hugo's output power (unlikely with the HD 800). However, you'll sacrifice accuracy and transparency compared to the direct connection in any event. There are better methods for correcting the sonic balance according to individual preferences without needless electronics in the signal path and the corresponding signal corruption.
 
 

 
Let's clear something up first. To say there is no internal amp in the HUGO is a load of excrements. People here are going to get the wrong impression. Here's what Rob Watts said:
 
Quote:

Now Hugo has a single active stage - a very high performance op-amp with a discrete op-stage as a hybrid with a single global feedback path. This arrangement means that you have a single active stage, two resistors and two capacitors in the direct signal path -  and that is it. Note: there is no headphone drive. Normal high performance DAC's have 3 op-amp stages, followed by a separate headphone amp. So to conclude - Hugo's analogue path is not a simple couple of op-amps chucked together, it is fundamentally simpler than all other headphone amp solutions.

 
There is no HEADPHONE DRIVE. Meaning, there isn't a separate dedicated amplification active stage for headphones only. THERE IS AN AMP. You cannot make a DAC with no amp stage. 
 
*sigh*
 
The line-out amp stage is just shared with the headphone drive. This actually isn't a good thing, as the swing in headphones like the HD800 require a well-made amp.

 

[SearchOfSub]

Why people who never heard Hugo with hd800 say Hugo will be bad with hd800? someone posted he prefers Hugo with hd800 over sennheisser own hd800 amp - HDVD800.

I had Hugo before in my speaker setup and it's the best dac/amp I have ever heard. It's refined, sounds analog with good air. It's one of those dac/amp that makes you settle and stop thinking about upgrading. I sold off my whole system because I wanted to take break and make funds for another hobby awhile back, but I am now want to get back to listening recently. But this time, no speakers but with headphones. It's gonna come down to HD800 - and for dac/amp the Hugo or HDVD800. - I've done enough listening now to know that seperates are not the way to go with headphones - all in one like Hugo or HDVD800 or Audioquest dragonfly will always sound better and be more transparent than seperates costing 3x as much.

I know how Hugo sounds - only wish I can demo hdvd800.

 

[joespride]

So I am learning there is 1 advantage to the HD800 I have not seen much publicity over,  They seem to shine at low level 

 
My Ears may thank Sennheiser