twangsta said:

Too many choices, think I'll take a some time out to figure all this out. The thing is I'm writing form India, auditioning high end headphone gear is a near impossibility, spending so much sight unseen is a bit daunting, while having done it in the past with other gear, the results haven't always been favourable.

I'll give it some more thought, more research etc. I have an RME interface that's got a commonly well regarded DAC, I'll concentrate my efforts around an amp, after which I'll know one DAC from the other to start with.

Thanks for all the help folks.

Back on topic, was there any consensus about the old vs new HD800s?

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I had the RME Fireface 900 as my early pc interface, before USB async. It was very nice kit.

twangsta said:

  Too many choices, think I'll take a some time out to figure all this out. The thing is I'm writing form India, auditioning high end headphone gear is a near impossibility, spending so much sight unseen is a bit daunting, while having done it in the past with other gear, the results haven't always been favourable.
 
I'll give it some more thought, more research etc. I have an RME interface that's got a commonly well regarded DAC, I'll concentrate my efforts around an amp, after which I'll know one DAC from the other to start with.
 
Thanks for all the help folks.
 
Back on topic, was there any consensus about the old vs new HD800s?

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The RME DAC's are from what I understand the most stable, and they are some of the most used in the professional world of recording.

And let's all suggest one album in Kheadfi's ''HD800'' music sugesttions thread;
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/722584/hd800-music-suggestions-please
 
I already suggested this one;
 

So what was the conclusion from this, do the new HD800s sound different?

I haven't tried the old HD800's, but the so-called 'lacking bass' is definitely present in my newer models.. I have 26xxx

christian u said:

The RME DAC's are from what I understand the most stable, and they are some of the most used in the professional world of recording.

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I finally buckled and paid for a lehmann BCL from the buy and trade section. A bit terrified as I've little experience with purchases from individuals direct, pay and hope all goes well, fingers crossed.

Can't wait to try the new combo when it arrives.

Cheers

menswearhouse said:

I haven't tried the old HD800's, but the so-called 'lacking bass' is definitely present in my newer models.. I have 26xxx

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Interesting. Would that be a remark on the HD 800 in general then? What's the rest of your chain look like?

menswearhouse said:

  I haven't tried the old HD800's, but the so-called 'lacking bass' is definitely present in my newer models.. I have 26xxx

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Mine have decent bass... I'm assuming your setup doesn't really let the HD800's do their thing... what amp and DAC do you have?

I find HD800 bass is like no other , it's incredible but takes some getting used to. I can understand why some say it's not enough, they just are not used to such detail and precision with bass. It's so accurate and controlled you can pinpoint the bass in the mix and pick it out within the image , most other headphones or speakers just present the bass as a thing that's everywhere and surrounding all the rest of the instruments . Like you no where it's coming from but it's blurry. HD800 just puts it in a defined point and says here I am !

james-uk said:

I can understand why some say it's not enough, they just are not used to such detail and precision with bass.

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I think it's a bit more complex, it's not simply a matter of detail and precision. There are a number of factors at play. The HD800 is very neutral, and can certainly come across as lacking in body with certain recordings. How the recording is mastered plays a big part, as does how the listener believes the bass should be perceived. I do find the HD800's bass to be supremely satisfying for quite a bit of my music - this is especially true of music with non electronic instrumentation. That said, for beat heavy music, I almost always reach for the LCD-2. The darker signature tips up the bass relative to the treble, and the sub bass response is superior to my ear. For better or worse, the HD800 simply doesn't have the same euphonic, visceral quality or impact.   

joelt said:

I think it's a bit more complex, it's not simply a matter of detail and precision. There are a number of factors at play. The HD800 is very neutral, and can certainly come across as lacking in body with certain recordings. How the recording is mastered plays a big part, as does how the listener believes the bass should be perceived. I do find the HD800's bass to be supremely satisfying for quite a bit of my music - this is especially true of music with non electronic instrumentation. That said, for beat heavy music, I almost always reach for the LCD-2. The darker signature tips up the bass relative to the treble, and the sub bass response is superior to my ear. For better or worse, the HD800 simply doesn't have the same euphonic, visceral quality or impact.   

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I know exactly what you mean and I also love that impact and visceral quality. Some days I can't stand the hd800 bass and it's just not satisfying. With speakers the bass can remain neutral and the impact and visceral quality comes from the vibrations and air movement in the room , it's the best of both worlds in a way because our ears can pick out the detail and out body can feel the impact. The problem with headphones is to overcome the shortcomings on body impact they have to overcompensate and that then creates to much bass in the ears . The goal of a good headphone seems to be to sound like good speakers in a 'perfect room' this approach is instantly flawed because bass is felt as well as heard, this means the only the Parts missing from the hd800 bass is the stuff we should only feel . LCD boosts the bass relative to to the rest if the spectrum to compensate for the parts we should only feel. This is all just me thinking out loud on how I understand it and make sense of it.

The bass on my pair seems very nice, indeed.
 
My pair is serial number 19xx.....so I don't know if this is considered old or not......one thing for sure....the beast headphone that I have ever heard personally.
 
I really can't say that there is anything that I do no like about them.

Mine is #17.. And the bass has always been amazingly good , as James-Uk describes very well above.  The only Headphone I heard ( I don't heard the HE-6 though ) who offers same tight, precise and fast bass but with a lot more body is the Abyss. This one's bass seem to come from outerspace . I heard HE-500, the LCD 2 & 3 but IMO they offer very good bass too but not better bass than HD800. For Pop/rock those orthos maybe win but for classical low register  I'm not covinced. HD800 bass stay more "readable" , a bit less "one note bass" .
 
That been said HD800 bass will never satisfy any basshead. The best compromise between big bass and clean sound is IMO provided by a TH900. It's really not my cup of tea though.

If you want a coloured hp don't buy the HD800. If you want an hp with emphasised bass then there are loads of other options. 
 
Also, Like any headphone or speaker - they aren't going to sound as good, or in this case (probably) as balanced as they can unless they are amped sufficiently. With some lower powered amps (or high current -low impedance) I've tried, there hasn't been enough natural bass presence for sure and then on the other footsy some really powerful amps can tip the balance too much in the other direction. The HD800's can be capable of intrusive bass believe it or not!
The transparency that has been mentioned is the key regarding the SQ of our amps and sources. But it is the amount of power they are fed and impedance matching that sways the balance in regards to the FR. The HD800 are not a versatlile headphone to plug into anything that has a hp input. They are a sensitive audiophile tool (bit like myself )
 
So when peeps say they are lacking bass it has to be either they are amping them insufficiently. Or they either want more or are used to hearing more bass presence than is on the actual recording itself. And there is nothing wrong with this at all. IMO.
 

All this talk of uncoloured bass with the HD800 got me thinking, including the remark about the DM Source.
 
As I said I'm currently using a Univeral Audio Apollo Twin Duo for my audio interface, it's a pro studio piece of kit but in a smaller form factor with 2 pre's in and an additional SPIDF stereo in or 8 ADAT ins. A dedicated headphone out, balanced monitor out and another balance line out. The Apollo is known for it's UAD2 plugins that are mostly null test passed emulation of classic studio hardware, from what I know the UAD2 platform is one of 3 companies that do null test passed plugins. Null test plugins are as good as it gets when it comes to measuring emulated hardware against the real thing for accuracy. Additionally these plugins run on dedicated hardware processors on board, the big charm is that it's hardware monitoring at 1.1ms for live tracking. This is great for a number of reasons I won't get into now. 
 
Ne'ways to get back on point, the reason I put all that down is that there's a whole plethora of plugins with UAD2 that are in use on regular production at pro studios of all grades and available to us at a fraction of the cost of the hardware, infact most studios prefer to use the UAD2 versions as it's a hell of a lot more versatile and simpler, not to mention the ability to run them in parallel without having multiple hardware units each with their quirks.
 
For example I just mucked around with the Dangerous Audio BAX EQ Master Mix in Audrivana+. With the HD800 plugged into the Apollo Twin I have full and fine control over any and all frequencies without adding any mud. It's incredible to have this kind of sophisticated control at the consumer level. I added a bit of surgical boost on the kick drum to anywhere from subtle to a wider sweep, the results are very satisfactory. The HD800 retained all the definition with out any undesirable low end mud and other affects leaving the mids and high frequencies unscathed. 
 

 
In any case I'm very satisfied to know I'm spoilt for choice between the Pultec and DM BAX EQs. I don't know how well this kind of approach will go down with purists but I do think these are exciting times to have best of both worlds. I haven't noticed a reduction of soundstage, or any other effects with the EQs deployed. 
 
I did finally get a good deal on a Lehmann BCL standard, ideally I'd have gone for the PRO version with the balanced XLR in, would have been perfect with this setup but didn't want' to put down full scratch, 330 GBP for the used Lehmann was a good deal as opposed to 750 GBP for a new pro model. Can't wait for it to arrive mid next month. Hope it's in good working order. Picked it up from a fellow member here at the used buy and sell section. 
 
I do like the idea of the HD800 being relatively neutral, having an arsenal of quality master mix EQs at hand gives me a lot of peace knowing I can choose to colour or not. Can the HD800 be driven to distortion with over emphasising, absolutely, what I can't wait to figure out is how differently the Lehmann BLC will handle it compared to the Apollo HP out, it'll give me an idea of how much of that distortion is DSP, amplifier and mechanical bourn.
 
Of course I'm not trying to blow the HD800s or my ears, I'm doing these tests at mostly moderate levels, and even lower levels when I'm over emphasising frequencies, but it would be nice to know they can get warmer on demand
 
edit: done a ton of edits for typos.. just like to add that my HD800 sound fantastic with or without any EQ via the apollo, really want to know how the BCL will help it upscale, may throw this eq theory out of the water if I hear the dedicated amp doing something the eq's can't for tone shaping, as far as speed/transients etc I suppose thats a very amp thing. I'm assuming the amp will have a lot more headroom than the Apollo's build in HP amp. Hmm... I should plug these into my old Audiolab 8000A for a quick comparison at this scale of integrated onboard HP amps.