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post #541 of 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post

 

Oops... make that "reasonably affordable". I guess the Concero isn't quite a "budget" item per se, but I do think it's worth the extra bucks vs. a Bifrost-level DAC.

 

No idea what the amp+DAC pricing will be, but if sub-$1000 and performs well things could get verrry interesting around here....

There seems to be a pretty big gap in the amp/DAC market between something in the $500 range like the Nuforce HDP (and portables) and something like the $1400 Anedio D2 and up, that gives equal(ish) quality to DAC and amp (CEntrance is only one I can think of).  Due to space constraints and preferences, I don't really have any good options sub $1000 and small footprint that might pair reasonably with my HD800s.  If the Concero HP can hit a similar point on the price performance curve that the origianal Concero is (supposedly), and stay under $1000, it will be a bargain and possibly even cheap for what it gives me.

post #542 of 1861

If the Concero HD comes out at $800 like they stated earlier, it's possible the Concero HP slots in at the $900-$1000 range. I am hoping they readjust the prices a bit though.. doesn't seem to be quite the value anymore the original Concero was lauded for.

post #543 of 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by EraserXIV View Post

If the Concero HD comes out at $800 like they stated earlier, it's possible the Concero HP slots in at the $900-$1000 range. I am hoping they readjust the prices a bit though.. doesn't seem to be quite the value anymore the original Concero was lauded for.

 

True for the DAC... the $200 bumps it off the super value curve but if the quality is where X-Sabre currently is, I'd bite. Otherwise I'm not going to pay for DSD at this point in time & will stick with what I've got. Probably a good time to order one of the base Conceros if you're on the fence about it. 

 

As for the amp+DAC combo in one go? That might remain in step with Concero's established price/performance curve, and possibly exceed it. We will see...

post #544 of 1861
Thread Starter 

I'll just point out that the Invicta has an exceptional headphone stage, which gets it's own dedicated DAC chip. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to repurpose that into a stand alone product.

 

It wouldn't quite be the same without the big PSU of the Invicta, but it would fit into a small enclosure like this. Not saying that's exactly what is happening here, but it's an idea at least. 

post #545 of 1861

I have a CIAudio VDA-2 + VAC-1, which I'm quite happy with. Back in the day, most preferred it to the Benchmark DAC-1, and it still seems to be very competitive with current DACs under $1k.

 

I have also just ordered a Musical Fidelity V-link 192. From what I've read, it seems obvious that the DDC of the Concero beats the V-link 192. Still have a couple questions though:

 

1) Does anyone know how just the DAC of the Concero (using Coax input) compares to the VDA2?

 

2) How about the Concero as a whole (DDC + DAC) compared to the VDA2 + V-link 192?


Edited by mojolo - 4/27/13 at 12:54pm
post #546 of 1861
Thread Starter 

Cross posting this from the Invicta thread:

 

 

I've got an update which I confirmed with Mark Mallinson as something I can officially talk about. Much of the info already posted has been (mostly) accurate so this is a bit of a rehash and re-organization of that info along with some new stuff.

 

1) The current Invicta is out of stock and will be phased out come mid-May. I'm not sure if the current version will have more stock prior to that or not. Moving forward, Resonessence is taking a fork in the road with Invicta splitting into two models:

 

2)First is the previously mentioned Invicta Mirus which is a dedicated DAC only (no headphone section). While losing the headphone section with the ES9016 chip, Mirus features dual ES9018 chips dedicated entirely to the line-out. They run in parallel so it's essentially 8 DACs per channel, or something I call Octa-mono mode (I just made that up!) rather than quad-mono like the original Invicta. 

 

3)The second variation is yet to be named (Invicta 2? Invicta part deux? I dunno...) but it stays more in line with the original, only this time the ES9016 on the headphone section is replaced by an ES9018. So it still gets dual ES9018 chips but in a different configuration than the Mirus. 

 

Both models will have some other upgrades and tweaks such as sample rate indicators for 352.8kHz and 384kHz. Both are priced at $4,995. 

 

4)Next comes the Concero which will remain in the lineup and as far as I know will keep the same $599 price. It can't handle DSD due to limitations of the ES9023 chip used, but it can now handle sample rates up to 384kHz over USB (which would be DXD files).

 

5)Next they have the Concero HD which uses a different (32-bit) Sabre chip and can in fact do DSD. The better chip should mean better SQ so it's not just adding DSD to the existing model. They are shooting for a $799 price if all goes according to plan. This is due in June.

 

6)Lastly is the Concero HP which I believe we saw a picture of earlier. It uses the same Concero chassis as the other models, and the same 32-bit Sabre chip (DSD capable) as the Concero HD, but has a built in headphone amp. The HP model is USB only, while the HD (and the original) have USB plus the coaxial SPDIF input. Pricing is also tentatively set at $799 and this should also ship around June. 

 

So there you have it - Resonessence seems to be branching out to higher territory with the Invicta line, while keeping the "low" end covered with the original Concero and filling out the middle to some degree with the new Concero variations. They have some other ideas kicking around but for now this is all that's really set in stone. Oh and by the way - the Concero HD and HP have one more interesting aspect that I can't talk about yet... soon though. 

post #547 of 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

Cross posting this from the Invicta thread:

 

 

I've got an update which I confirmed with Mark Mallinson as something I can officially talk about. Much of the info already posted has been (mostly) accurate so this is a bit of a rehash and re-organization of that info along with some new stuff.

 

1) The current Invicta is out of stock and will be phased out come mid-May. I'm not sure if the current version will have more stock prior to that or not. Moving forward, Resonessence is taking a fork in the road with Invicta splitting into two models:

 

2)First is the previously mentioned Invicta Mirus which is a dedicated DAC only (no headphone section). While losing the headphone section with the ES9016 chip, Mirus features dual ES9018 chips dedicated entirely to the line-out. They run in parallel so it's essentially 8 DACs per channel, or something I call Octa-mono mode (I just made that up!) rather than quad-mono like the original Invicta. 

 

3)The second variation is yet to be named (Invicta 2? Invicta part deux? I dunno...) but it stays more in line with the original, only this time the ES9016 on the headphone section is replaced by an ES9018. So it still gets dual ES9018 chips but in a different configuration than the Mirus. 

 

Both models will have some other upgrades and tweaks such as sample rate indicators for 352.8kHz and 384kHz. Both are priced at $4,995. 

 

4)Next comes the Concero which will remain in the lineup and as far as I know will keep the same $599 price. It can't handle DSD due to limitations of the ES9023 chip used, but it can now handle sample rates up to 384kHz over USB (which would be DXD files).

 

5)Next they have the Concero HD which uses a different (32-bit) Sabre chip and can in fact do DSD. The better chip should mean better SQ so it's not just adding DSD to the existing model. They are shooting for a $799 price if all goes according to plan. This is due in June.

 

6)Lastly is the Concero HP which I believe we saw a picture of earlier. It uses the same Concero chassis as the other models, and the same 32-bit Sabre chip (DSD capable) as the Concero HD, but has a built in headphone amp. The HP model is USB only, while the HD (and the original) have USB plus the coaxial SPDIF input. Pricing is also tentatively set at $799 and this should also ship around June. 

 

So there you have it - Resonessence seems to be branching out to higher territory with the Invicta line, while keeping the "low" end covered with the original Concero and filling out the middle to some degree with the new Concero variations. They have some other ideas kicking around but for now this is all that's really set in stone. Oh and by the way - the Concero HD and HP have one more interesting aspect that I can't talk about yet... soon though. 

Thanks for the clarification/consolidation.  

 

Do you happen to know if the Concero HP will still have analog and digital out (can still be a usb-spdif bridge) in addition to the HP out?  If so, and if it is indeed better sounding than the original Concero, it looks like it will be hard to pass up at $799.

post #548 of 1861
Very interesting, thanks for the update.
post #549 of 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

Cross posting this from the Invicta thread:

 

 

I've got an update which I confirmed with Mark Mallinson as something I can officially talk about. Much of the info already posted has been (mostly) accurate so this is a bit of a rehash and re-organization of that info along with some new stuff.

 

1) The current Invicta is out of stock and will be phased out come mid-May. I'm not sure if the current version will have more stock prior to that or not. Moving forward, Resonessence is taking a fork in the road with Invicta splitting into two models:

 

2)First is the previously mentioned Invicta Mirus which is a dedicated DAC only (no headphone section). While losing the headphone section with the ES9016 chip, Mirus features dual ES9018 chips dedicated entirely to the line-out. They run in parallel so it's essentially 8 DACs per channel, or something I call Octa-mono mode (I just made that up!) rather than quad-mono like the original Invicta. 

 

3)The second variation is yet to be named (Invicta 2? Invicta part deux? I dunno...) but it stays more in line with the original, only this time the ES9016 on the headphone section is replaced by an ES9018. So it still gets dual ES9018 chips but in a different configuration than the Mirus. 

 

Both models will have some other upgrades and tweaks such as sample rate indicators for 352.8kHz and 384kHz. Both are priced at $4,995. 

 

4)Next comes the Concero which will remain in the lineup and as far as I know will keep the same $599 price. It can't handle DSD due to limitations of the ES9023 chip used, but it can now handle sample rates up to 384kHz over USB (which would be DXD files).

 

5)Next they have the Concero HD which uses a different (32-bit) Sabre chip and can in fact do DSD. The better chip should mean better SQ so it's not just adding DSD to the existing model. They are shooting for a $799 price if all goes according to plan. This is due in June.

 

6)Lastly is the Concero HP which I believe we saw a picture of earlier. It uses the same Concero chassis as the other models, and the same 32-bit Sabre chip (DSD capable) as the Concero HD, but has a built in headphone amp. The HP model is USB only, while the HD (and the original) have USB plus the coaxial SPDIF input. Pricing is also tentatively set at $799 and this should also ship around June. 

 

So there you have it - Resonessence seems to be branching out to higher territory with the Invicta line, while keeping the "low" end covered with the original Concero and filling out the middle to some degree with the new Concero variations. They have some other ideas kicking around but for now this is all that's really set in stone. Oh and by the way - the Concero HD and HP have one more interesting aspect that I can't talk about yet... soon though. 

 

I don't really see how Resonessence keeps the low end covered... 600USD for a D-A-Converter is nowhere near low end. At least not for 99.99% people on this planet.

post #550 of 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

I don't really see how Resonessence keeps the low end covered... 600USD for a D-A-Converter is nowhere near low end. At least not for 99.99% people on this planet.

It's considered low end compared to other stuff they make wink.gif. Also it fits a segment that is not very populated imo.

post #551 of 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

It's considered low end compared to other stuff they make wink.gif. Also it fits a segment that is not very populated imo.

Yes.  I'm excited to see new entrants into the relative dead zone between $500-1000.  

 

When talking about Headfi, and audiophilia, 99.9999% of the population isn't interested and aren't really relevant to the judgement of low-end or not.  For me below $250 for a component is Budget-fi, $250-750 is low end, $750-$1500 is mid-fi, $1500-above is hi-fi.   This is just from being around this hobby for the past 4 years.  There are those who feel $250 is already hifi, and some who think $1500 is a throw away component.  

post #552 of 1861
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

Thanks for the clarification/consolidation.  

 

Do you happen to know if the Concero HP will still have analog and digital out (can still be a usb-spdif bridge) in addition to the HP out?  If so, and if it is indeed better sounding than the original Concero, it looks like it will be hard to pass up at $799.

 

I don't know at this point. I'd guess there is still a line-out as that just makes sense... no idea about the SPDIF output. I kind of think it would make sense to leave it out, since the coaxial jack would imply SPDIF input which is not the case here. But again, just guessing. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

I don't really see how Resonessence keeps the low end covered... 600USD for a D-A-Converter is nowhere near low end. At least not for 99.99% people on this planet.

 

You'll note I mentioned "low" as I realize it can mean very different things to different people. Resonessence is known mainly for their Invicta unit and in that context Concero is very low priced indeed. Of course it's not a true "budget" model competing with $99 Fiio stuff. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

It's considered low end compared to other stuff they make wink.gif. Also it fits a segment that is not very populated imo.

 

This. 

post #553 of 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

5)Next they have the Concero HD which uses a different (32-bit) Sabre chip and can in fact do DSD. The better chip should mean better SQ so it's not just adding DSD to the existing model. They are shooting for a $799 price if all goes according to plan. This is due in June.

 

 

Wow thanks for the updates project86. Really well organized and to the point.

 

I smell an upgrade for me... Concero HD sounds like too much for me to resist. I hope they can keep it at $799. Might be a real high performer in that bracket.

post #554 of 1861
Can't wait to hear both. $799 HP model could make some pretty big waves in the sub-$1k tier...
post #555 of 1861

I received an email from Mark and he stated that there was an attractive upgrade path for those who want dsd. I would like to also contribute to this thread with my initial impressions with concero. I hooked it up to windows 7 with no problems. I used Paradigm studio 100's hooked up to Anthem mca2 for testing. I set up foobar and listened to some 24/96 songs from hdtracks. The bass/drums and cymbols crashing down are very clear/concise and with authority. You can hear guitar strings and other instruments going on within the songs and the limited 24/192 songs I have, are very good too. I messed around with the different filters and decided on the no filter(dark blue) setting. I will try the hd800/v200 after my work week is over but very good impressions so far. Thanks project86 for review and recommendations. NOTE: If the concero sounds this good, will the new HD version sound even better? Another upgrade if the price is right for concero owners.

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