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In Need of your HELP!!!

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

HI All,


I am calling on the Head-Fi community to please help me with this  - I have had an Apex Pinnacle stolen from me. The serial number is 9 and it was sent to California where it has disappeared.


Here is the story - I received an order from a customer and all of the billing/shipping/credit card info checked out. The Pinnacle was sent out via UPS and the package was rerouted to a UPS pick up center by the recipient. This was allegedly done by my customer. UPS claims that they checked the mans ID and have his signature but there  was a chargeback on my account for the Pinnacle - and because the shipping address was changed it was not delivered to the billing address of the credit card (other resellers beware of this scam as it has now happened to me twice!!!)  So the buyer claims he did not order it, UPS claims they check his ID and it was that of the person who ordered and I sent the box to.


If anyone sees a Pinnacle for sale, is anywhere where there is a Pinnacle and the serial number is 9, please notify me and or the police immediately. Needless to say a $10,000 hit really hurts!


I appreciate any help with this that anyone can offer.



post #2 of 13

Absolutely appalling. I'll let everyone possible know. You might want to change the title of this thread to something like "In need of your help: Stolen Pinnacle amp".

post #3 of 13

well isnt UPS at fault here and so responsible?

post #4 of 13

Boy, it's probably not worth selling things over $3000 unless they pay with a cashier's check or a bank wire or something.  That sucks...isn't there any form of chargeback protection there is, or anything your card processing company can do?  

post #5 of 13



That is awful.  I will keep an eye out for stuff online.  Wish I had some good advice for you. 

post #6 of 13
You should be able to get that chargeback reversed. His ups signature shows he did in fact receive the item. It may take some time but you can get it reversed.
post #7 of 13

Hey Todd, I'm really sorry about what happened to you (bad things always happen to the most honest people, and you also made a great contribution to the audio world by working with Pete to produce the Pinnacle).

The more I think about this, I think UPS has responsibility here. 

If I ship something to a particular address, ESPECIALLY AN ITEM INSURED FOR $10,000,  and the shipping company's quality control is sloppy enough to allow the item to be fraudulently diverted to the wrong recipient who has nothing

to do with that address, they and/or the insurance company is liable.

Sure, they could say the recipient at the intended address my have not expected the item, but that is between you and the party at that address, and it's none of UPS's business what happens after the correct delivery is made.

There is the reasonable possibility that the person at that address would work something out with you to return the item.


I mean, let's say I sent an expensive gift to someone and they were not expecting it and UPS misdelivered it to the wrong party and it was lost.

UPS couldn't complain that the intended recipient wasn't expecting it and therefore they (UPS) is not responsible. Again, it's none of their business.

If they (UPS) was defrauded, they can't rightfully tell you to suffer for it and walk away.


UPS dropped the ball, and the insurance should be paid to you for a mishandled shipment, plain and simple. The dispute then is between UPS and its insurer.

I would sue UPS if they don't honor the claim, and sue for the claim amount AND your legal fees AND your time.


You paid UPS to deliver that package to that address and they failed to do this, and you bought insurance to make sure this happened. 

And this wasn't some Act of God like a storm or accident or war that UPS could not reasonably foresee. Their internal anti-fraud measures proved inadequate.


UPS should have, for a shipment like this, made a copy of the person's photo ID who diverted the shipment and signed for it and made sure the picture matched the appearance of the person picking it up.

The act of diverting an expensive insured shipment should trigger alarm and there should be extra procedures to protect against fraud.

They should be able to show you this copy of the person's photo ID for a police report for grand theft and identity theft. If UPS didn't do this, I think that would constitute negligence.

For something of this value, they should also take a photo of the person to make sure there is no doubt.


If they had such a photo, the police could call upon the person who said they never ordered it and compare him to this photo for evidence.

And chances are, if the original person who denied ordering it was the one committing the fraud by denying he ordered it, he would probably balk at having his photo taken

thus avoiding going through with any theft.



By the way, I bought several items from Todd and I recommend him highly. He worked with me after the sale on enhancements and usage and is always available for advice, and his advice and assistance has been quite valuable.

And, IMHO, the Pinnacle is a BARGAIN, as it is both a preamp that can compete with any megabuck preamp and a headphone amp that is easily the end of the line for dynamic phones to my ears.

Edited by rgs9200m - 10/24/12 at 5:01pm
post #8 of 13

It sounds like it  was ordered with  stolen credit card details, that why it had to be redirected by the thief. The rightful owner of the card applied for a charge back when he realised his card was used wrongfully. My 2cents....

post #9 of 13
Originally Posted by recstar24 View Post

You should be able to get that chargeback reversed. His ups signature shows he did in fact receive the item. It may take some time but you can get it reversed.

Yep, I mean if I ordered something very expensive, signed for it, and then denied the whole thing I wouldn't think the credit card company would quickly give me my money back and charge the merchant with no investigation at all.

That sounds crazy. If that could happen so easily fraud would be rampant and the credit card system would have real trouble.

Edited by rgs9200m - 10/25/12 at 10:44am
post #10 of 13

It will take a little time, and some perseverance on your part, but you might have some recourse.


As a matter of policy (and I speak in the know on this one) UPS will not allow rerouting a package by the recipient prior to first delivery attempt; once such has taken place without an actual delivery the recipient can go online either with the tracking number or info notice to request a local office pickup, at no charge, or a reroute to a different location for a fee. Either case, UPS has custody of the item throughout, and the burden of proof is on UPS to ensure the release of the parcel to a duly identified recipient. Having said this, the credit card issuer will side with their customer by default, and the merchant has some hoops through which to jump in order to get it reversed. 


As far as the credit card issuer sees it, and as stated by their cardholder in the dispute affidavit, the merchandise did not reach him or her. UPS, however, has records to the contrary, and generally they will cooperate with you on getting written proof of such (which will generally consist of the pickup signature, as no copies of IDs are made). Please submit UPS' proof of pickup, including the signature, to your merchant payment processor. If UPS did their due diligence, the signature should at least resemble the one on the ID, and if they do, the cardholder will have some explaining to do on this matter.


I'd also file a police report in the jurisdiction where your customer resides.

post #11 of 13

Very sorry to hear this Todd...hope this all works out in the end.

post #12 of 13

I realize this is an old thread, but reading this today makes me almost gag. This is a terrible story. 

post #13 of 13
If the photo ID matched the credit card holder, either UPS failed to properly verify the ID or it's cardholder fraud. If the ID doesn't match the cardholder it's definitely on UPS.
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