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post #16 of 38
My HD590s had a little better dynamics with a cmoy.
post #17 of 38
Thread Starter 

What is "dynamics", actually? Does it mean it can perform at a wider frequency range?

post #18 of 38
Dynamics are the loud and soft of things. How far and how fast the response to changes in volume is the measuring stick.
post #19 of 38
Thread Starter 

Meaning can turn from very loud to very soft within a quick period of time?

post #20 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post

 

 

My HD600's are driven quite well from an ipod. I certainly consider those decent headphones.

 

 

 

Really? I consider my HD600s to sound much worse playing back the same FLAC files straight out of my tablets headphone jack compared to the same files going through e7/e9 combo.  you think your HD600s are driven quite well compared to what?

 

my akg k272s (55 ohm) sound fine un-amped but there is a definite improvement with just a cmoy amp or e7.  Sure some of it is placebo but that applies for everything IMO.


Edited by linglingjr - 10/4/12 at 9:17pm
post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnholy View Post

Meaning can turn from very loud to very soft within a quick period of time?

 

Two things.

Dynamic Range: Difference between the max and min in the entire song.

Dynamics: As you say. The average listening level can be ~80 dB lets say, but there can be peaks where the sound goes >100 dB for very small durations.


Edited by proton007 - 10/5/12 at 12:16am
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnholy View Post

Meaning can turn from very loud to very soft within a quick period of time?

Pretty much, but my understanding is that the quick is the essential part, not the how much part. Here is a link to some audio guys like us discussing what it is re: speakers.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78198.0

A sterling example would be a compression driver/horn system. Also a large woofer with a powerful magnet, tight gaps, light cone and supple suspension. This is JBL's home turf for their high end. My old giant four way studio monitors (JBL 4345s) combine both technologies and are considered one of the most dynamic speakers ever produced.

Another more familiar example would be the better Stax electrostatic headphones. Large surface, extremely light weight, very tight tolerances and very powerful forces both pushing and pulling simultaneously mean monster dynamics. The travel is tiny but lightning fast and powerful, and completely controled. The large surface compensates for the small travel.

What all these systems have in common are light moving masses with a large area and unusually powerful, unusually accurate motors (magnetic or electrostatic forces and the physical architecture to produce them) moving them. Larger full range cone drivers also qualify.

Such systems also have high efficiency and low distortion. Distortion is seldom discussed with speakers and headphones because it is almost always significant, orders of magnitude greater than electronics have. Stax is the king of low distortion. An engineer at JBL, perhaps Jerry Moro (? bad memory), designed a high end line of cone drivers that have distortion specs as low as some amplifiers. Expensive stuff for expensive speakers. No boutique brands even address the issue as far as I know. Too bad, because good numbers here yield great detail and microdynamics.
Edited by Clarkmc2 - 10/5/12 at 9:36pm
post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by linglingjr View Post

Really? I consider my HD600s to sound much worse playing back the same FLAC files straight out of my tablets headphone jack compared to the same files going through e7/e9 combo.  you think your HD600s are driven quite well compared to what?

 

my akg k272s (55 ohm) sound fine un-amped but there is a definite improvement with just a cmoy amp or e7.  Sure some of it is placebo but that applies for everything IMO.

 

Compared to an emu 0404 DAC into a meier corda headfive amp, as well as a cmoy. Have you done a blind listening test with the volume levels matched?

 

The only time I really want to use an amp with them is if I'm in a noisy environment and need the extra volume to drown out environmental noise (a downside to using open headphones).

post #24 of 38

I really dislike the term "unamped". Typically there's no such thing. Every device with a headphone jack has built-in amplification.

I'd only call it "unamped" if there is no headphone amp, like plugging the headphones straight into a DAC or line-out (which I hope nobody does).

post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

I really dislike the term "unamped". Typically there's no such thing. Every device with a headphone jack has built-in amplification.

I'd only call it "unamped" if there is no headphone amp, like plugging the headphones straight into a DAC or line-out (which I hope nobody does).

 

Agree.

I think it should be taught in Audiophile 101.


Edited by proton007 - 10/8/12 at 7:08pm
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkmc2 View Post

Such systems also have high efficiency and low distortion. Distortion is seldom discussed with speakers and headphones because it is almost always significant, orders of magnitude greater than electronics have. Stax is the king of low distortion. An engineer at JBL, perhaps Jerry Moro (? bad memory), designed a high end line of cone drivers that have distortion specs as low as some amplifiers. Expensive stuff for expensive speakers. No boutique brands even address the issue as far as I know. Too bad, because good numbers here yield great detail and microdynamics.

Since I mentioned Jerry Moro, to give him his due here is a pic and reference to some of his designs.

 

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?9967-Northridge-Visit-Day-4&p=102103&viewfull=1#post102103

 

Besides low distortion woofers, he designed the most advanced compression drivers I have heard of, like the 476Be from the Everest II (DD66000).

 

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=18595&d=1158158693

 

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?12255-Everest-Listening-Impressions&p=128549&viewfull=1#post128549


Edited by Clarkmc2 - 10/28/12 at 2:06am
post #27 of 38

There was something I was wondering about this in regards to just the power of an amp...

 

There are a lot of headphones like the HE-400 where people say that it gets better the more power you put into it...

 

But if I'm understanding correctly, the amount of power an amp delivers is based on how loud you have the amp turned up. So really the only way to fully benefit from all the power of an amp like the Lyr for example is to turn it up all the way.

 

So why is it that people recommend getting a more powerful amp like the Lyr for a headphone like the HE-400 which I would rarely ever want to turn up past 50% volume? What am I missing here?

post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

There was something I was wondering about this in regards to just the power of an amp...

 

There are a lot of headphones like the HE-400 where people say that it gets better the more power you put into it...

 

But if I'm understanding correctly, the amount of power an amp delivers is based on how loud you have the amp turned up. So really the only way to fully benefit from all the power of an amp like the Lyr for example is to turn it up all the way.

 

So why is it that people recommend getting a more powerful amp like the Lyr for a headphone like the HE-400 which I would rarely ever want to turn up past 50% volume? What am I missing here?

 

Shhhhhhhhhhhh... Stop asking the right questions...

 

There's an inordinate race towards high power levels as a selling point, even though—as you say—it is going unused.  Doesn't matter how your amp sounds when putting out 0.1-5W into a certain load, or even that it's capable of such things, if you're never using levels that high.  There is some mythical conflation of electrical power output (a well-defined concept) and some kinds of impressions of "authority" and "power" in terms of sound quality.  

 

Also see the following entries:

  • Louder sounds different—often better
  • (Pretty much) Nobody ****ing volume matches; if an amp has more headroom or a higher volume adjustment range, people are more likely to unintentionally use more of it, as per the "give people a larger plate and they eat more food" effect
  • Always blame headphone+amp combinations (rather than headphones or amps separately) so as not to offend fans of the headphone and the amp
post #29 of 38
More power provides fuller sound at lesser volumes. I use 2 125w monoblocks on my HE-6. I don't use near the capability but the power used brings out all the signal with no loss of dynamics. Getting an amp that just provides adequate power will starve during complex and demanding loads, losing soundstage & control of the driver for tight bass and sparkling highs. More power is not necessarily about loudness.
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

There was something

So why is it that people recommend getting a more powerful amp like the Lyr for a headphone like the HE-400 which I would rarely ever want to turn up past 50% volume? What am I missing here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

More power provides fuller sound at lesser volumes. I use 2 125w monoblocks on my HE-6. I don't use near the capability but the power used brings out all the signal with no loss of dynamics. Getting an amp that just provides adequate power will starve during complex and demanding loads, losing soundstage & control of the driver for tight bass and sparkling highs. More power is not necessarily about loudness.

Happy Camper is talking about headroom, an amp having (or not having) enough power to handle peaks and louder bits generally in the music. But this has little to do with where the volume control is set. The volume control is an input attenuator. It limits the strength of the source signal coming into the amp so you can have control of how loudly the music is played. It has no effect on the power the amp can produce. When the volume is sitting at 50% it is a great place to be. All of the power the amp can produce is still available, but nearly all of the music is using only a fraction of it - leaving a ton of headroom to handle any more demanding parts. You don't have 2X125 watts, but you still have plenty of power for what you are doing.
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