DMinor
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Thanks for the honest opinion from someone who owns both. I auditioned the ex1000 for a long period before and I was very impressed with its performance.
AKG K3003 — Impressions, Reviews & Discussion
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Thanks for the honest opinion from someone who owns both. I auditioned the ex1000 for a long period before and I was very impressed with its performance.
lee730
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If you are impressed by it then go with your gut feeling and buy it. Or buy my 7550s
. lol
If you are impressed by it then go with your gut feeling and buy it. Or buy my 7550s
. lol
MuZo2
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Disclaimer I have not listened to AKG K3003 , but have noticed the issue with my design of hybrid ciem.
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In multi Balanced armature driver systems the crossovers which is mostly done with electronic components. As with dynamic drivers the tuning is done at front & back of dynamic driver and depends on displacement of air. Now even if crossovers is done perfectly the note thickness , presentation & decay difference between BA and Dynamic drivers can be possible cause of incoherence. I guess AKG 3003 being universal and BA driver sitting in front of Dynamic driver designing or tuning the Dynamic driver becomes more complex. With other hybrid CIEM (Merlin)because they use separate housings and tube for dynamic driver tuning it might be more practical to achieve better results.Also the BA driver has separate filter to smooth out the peaks in CIEM design. I dont think the K3003 dynamic driver it self is slower, I dont know if there are any ports or venting on 3003 if possible people can play with this vent and see the effect.
Quote:
Quote:
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In multi Balanced armature driver systems the crossovers which is mostly done with electronic components. As with dynamic drivers the tuning is done at front & back of dynamic driver and depends on displacement of air. Now even if crossovers is done perfectly the note thickness , presentation & decay difference between BA and Dynamic drivers can be possible cause of incoherence. I guess AKG 3003 being universal and BA driver sitting in front of Dynamic driver designing or tuning the Dynamic driver becomes more complex. With other hybrid CIEM (Merlin)because they use separate housings and tube for dynamic driver tuning it might be more practical to achieve better results.Also the BA driver has separate filter to smooth out the peaks in CIEM design. I dont think the K3003 dynamic driver it self is slower, I dont know if there are any ports or venting on 3003 if possible people can play with this vent and see the effect.
music_4321
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It obviously always comes down to personal preferences. Ideally we should be able to audition phones and choose the one(s) we like (and can afford). Otherwise we make purchases and then perhaps sell the phones we don't like, but many people cannot do or afford to do either.
"Bright does not equate to more detail". True, but a veil is also a veil, boomy is boomy, bloated is bloated, etc., and although warmer & darker phones can be more forgiving, they don't always present details (and music) in a realistic way. Yes, details may be there but one may have to try a bit too hard to look for them. If the recordings are poor/bright to begin with, as is the case with A LOT of the music people listen to, a warmer phone may be preferable / more enjoyable. This is one of several problems when people describe their phones — not only do we describe things differently, but often listen to different (kinds of) music; then, we have the usual: what I call neutral, you may call thin, boring, analytical, bright, piercing; what I call boomy you call "great bass"; what I call forward you call recessed/neutral; recessed/rolled off treble suddenly becomes "silky smooth treble", etc., etc. Then, we sometimes even have different FR graphs (for the same phone) from different sources.
Unfortunately, fanboyism and love of one's favourite toy(s) will often lead to all manner of explanations / excuses as to why X, Y or Z phone is it; and if one adds fancy audio terms, many people will think what one says is actually true & accurate, as a very large percentage of people who visit HF are noobs who are easily wowed by high-post counts and fancy audio jargon.
Who can one trust, really? One may need to spend weeks/months to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. Very few people, like james444, for instance, will really tell it like it is. He's rare amongst hundreds (thousands?) of members on this site, certainly rare in the IEMs forum.
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With well recorded/mastered music, I'd agree the K3003's sonic improvements over the EX1000s are not substantial, though they're still noticeable. The so-called law of diminishing returns, as always, does apply here.
However, note thickness, amongst other things, in my view, on the AKGs is better, it's more natural / correct. This is more clearly evident on chamber music and/or solo works (piano, violin, cello, acoustic guitar, etc). The EX1000's bass texture, however, is unparalleled—none of my $1,000+ phones (or $850 customs) have such texture, though the AKG's bass texture gets very, very close to that of the EX1000s. However, upper bass/lower mids are rendered better, more convincingly by the AKGs — the K3003's mid-bass has been done very right, IMO, which helps to add a better sense of realism to the music (midbass is often boosted too much in many phones). Both mid-range and high freqs are rendered more accurately, and seems more lifelike on the AKGs to these ears.
I said this before — the K3003s will definitely handle poor recordings/masters better, particularly the upper mids & treble regions. Last year Confispect (a metal-head) posted some metal tracks on the EX1000 thread, which sounded downright awful / grating on the Sonys (no wonder Confispect loved the Atrios), but those tracks were poorly mastered, too bright to begin with. The AKGs make those tracks listenable and even, at times, rather enjoyable. I then posted on that thread some better recorded metal-ish tracks which were better recorded and the Sonys did indeed shine with those (not so with the Atrios). Bottom line, the AKGs are definitely better all-rounders, they shine with well recorded music and do a very decent job with not so great recorded/mastered albums.
Low volume listening on the AKGs is noticeably better than on the Sonys.
And speaking of diminishing returns, the EX600, which to these ears delivers a good 90% of the EX1000's sonics, is an excellent IEM, particularly if one primarily uses IEMs when out and about, in which case it's hard to tell the differences between both Sony models. Last year the EX600s could be had for $125 -$150 (though I think they, along with the EX1000, are being discontinued in the USA & Europe so they might be more expensive now just as the EX1000s are these days).
It obviously always comes down to personal preferences. Ideally we should be able to audition phones and choose the one(s) we like (and can afford). Otherwise we make purchases and then perhaps sell the phones we don't like, but many people cannot do or afford to do either.
"Bright does not equate to more detail". True, but a veil is also a veil, boomy is boomy, bloated is bloated, etc., and although warmer & darker phones can be more forgiving, they don't always present details (and music) in a realistic way. Yes, details may be there but one may have to try a bit too hard to look for them. If the recordings are poor/bright to begin with, as is the case with A LOT of the music people listen to, a warmer phone may be preferable / more enjoyable. This is one of several problems when people describe their phones — not only do we describe things differently, but often listen to different (kinds of) music; then, we have the usual: what I call neutral, you may call thin, boring, analytical, bright, piercing; what I call boomy you call "great bass"; what I call forward you call recessed/neutral; recessed/rolled off treble suddenly becomes "silky smooth treble", etc., etc. Then, we sometimes even have different FR graphs (for the same phone) from different sources.
Unfortunately, fanboyism and love of one's favourite toy(s) will often lead to all manner of explanations / excuses as to why X, Y or Z phone is it; and if one adds fancy audio terms, many people will think what one says is actually true & accurate, as a very large percentage of people who visit HF are noobs who are easily wowed by high-post counts and fancy audio jargon.
Who can one trust, really? One may need to spend weeks/months to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. Very few people, like james444, for instance, will really tell it like it is. He's rare amongst hundreds (thousands?) of members on this site, certainly rare in the IEMs forum.
Quote:
Quote:
With well recorded/mastered music, I'd agree the K3003's sonic improvements over the EX1000s are not substantial, though they're still noticeable. The so-called law of diminishing returns, as always, does apply here.
However, note thickness, amongst other things, in my view, on the AKGs is better, it's more natural / correct. This is more clearly evident on chamber music and/or solo works (piano, violin, cello, acoustic guitar, etc). The EX1000's bass texture, however, is unparalleled—none of my $1,000+ phones (or $850 customs) have such texture, though the AKG's bass texture gets very, very close to that of the EX1000s. However, upper bass/lower mids are rendered better, more convincingly by the AKGs — the K3003's mid-bass has been done very right, IMO, which helps to add a better sense of realism to the music (midbass is often boosted too much in many phones). Both mid-range and high freqs are rendered more accurately, and seems more lifelike on the AKGs to these ears.
I said this before — the K3003s will definitely handle poor recordings/masters better, particularly the upper mids & treble regions. Last year Confispect (a metal-head) posted some metal tracks on the EX1000 thread, which sounded downright awful / grating on the Sonys (no wonder Confispect loved the Atrios), but those tracks were poorly mastered, too bright to begin with. The AKGs make those tracks listenable and even, at times, rather enjoyable. I then posted on that thread some better recorded metal-ish tracks which were better recorded and the Sonys did indeed shine with those (not so with the Atrios). Bottom line, the AKGs are definitely better all-rounders, they shine with well recorded music and do a very decent job with not so great recorded/mastered albums.
Low volume listening on the AKGs is noticeably better than on the Sonys.
And speaking of diminishing returns, the EX600, which to these ears delivers a good 90% of the EX1000's sonics, is an excellent IEM, particularly if one primarily uses IEMs when out and about, in which case it's hard to tell the differences between both Sony models. Last year the EX600s could be had for $125 -$150 (though I think they, along with the EX1000, are being discontinued in the USA & Europe so they might be more expensive now just as the EX1000s are these days).
lee730
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You have a point music but the problem is initially finding your signature preference. Plus even if you take advice from someone with experience the person may not find the reviewers impressions in line with his/her own experience with the recommended gear. Either way you put it it's a gamble. The longer you are here though the easier it gets to wade through the hype and bias (let's be honest everyone here is guilty of it to some extent). That is why it's subjective and I tend to say IMO. I don't take pride in misleading people and I call it as I see it. If it sounds like crap I'm gonna make it known and vice versa.
music_4321
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Yes, everyone is guilty of it to some extent (we're all human, after all), but some are (much) more guilty than others.
Saying "IMO" is not enough and can easily become just as formulaic as saying "YMMV"— basically, it often means nothing. Misleading people can be done in several ways, sometimes intentionally / consciously and cleverly disguised, and sometimes done unintentionally / unconsciously.
Yes, everyone is guilty of it to some extent (we're all human, after all), but some are (much) more guilty than others.
Saying "IMO" is not enough and can easily become just as formulaic as saying "YMMV"— basically, it often means nothing. Misleading people can be done in several ways, sometimes intentionally / consciously and cleverly disguised, and sometimes done unintentionally / unconsciously.
udauda
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I just use REW for easier accessibility. Here is the exact same data, slightly different analysis parameter for higher resolution. Two data correspond quite well with one another.
BTW this is what happens when you over-pressurize a transducer driven with constant-pressure. Most of the time, BA types with same SPL have far less decay.
I just use REW for easier accessibility. Here is the exact same data, slightly different analysis parameter for higher resolution. Two data correspond quite well with one another.
BTW this is what happens when you over-pressurize a transducer driven with constant-pressure. Most of the time, BA types with same SPL have far less decay.
Inks
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As mentioned here, that vent actually tames the bass levels, puts them under control. Of course, it is also claimed to improve the soundstage width by a couple of users. Lastly, it prevents that suction-like feeling when they are inserted into your ears.
I dont think the K3003 dynamic driver it self is slower, I dont know if there are any ports or venting on 3003 if possible people can play with this vent and see the effect.
As mentioned here, that vent actually tames the bass levels, puts them under control. Of course, it is also claimed to improve the soundstage width by a couple of users. Lastly, it prevents that suction-like feeling when they are inserted into your ears.
lee730
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Interesting... Generally having a vent won't tame bass but add more of it...
Inks
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Frontal vents tame bass, vents behind the driver boost it. This is a trend ive noticed, the ear pods also have a frontal vent that tames its bass.
music_4321
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You can say that again! I still think the K3003s look a bit—just a bit—more classy.
It's official! The K3003 are just a glorified EarPod!
You can say that again! I still think the K3003s look a bit—just a bit—more classy.
tomscy2000
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No way! Nothing beats the impeccable industrial design of the one and only Sir Jonathan Ive!
No way! Nothing beats the impeccable industrial design of the one and only Sir Jonathan Ive!
music_4321
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^
music_4321
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tomscy2000 — I'll tell you one thing, though, the €30 EarPods do have (small) strain reliefs at each end of the in-line remote whereas the K3003s don't (!); that's why I've suggested a number of times to those who (still) believe the K3003s may offer excellent SQ, they should try and get the non-remote/mic version, which, very oddly —I'd actually say stupidly—enough, seems to only be sold in Asia. I was told by AKG Austria they can source the non-remote/mic model (at least in Europe) if you ask your local AKG distributor for it.
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