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Wolfson DAC confirmed for Galaxy S3! - Page 29

post #421 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by googleli View Post

Any news from SuperMario?

 

Nothing new. Luigi was told me.

post #422 of 947
Same thing I heard - the princess is in another castle...
post #423 of 947

Just wanted to chime in -- my Pico DAC works perfectly with my Galaxy S3.  It's just a simple plug and play :-)

post #424 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by akwok View Post

Just wanted to chime in -- my Pico DAC works perfectly with my Galaxy S3.  It's just a simple plug and play :-)

 

 

 

Why would you use a separate DAC with S3?   Even the Galaxy S DAC sounds better than majority of <1000$ standalone DAC's.   Definitely sounds as good as Musical Fidelity M1DAC, confirmed in blind tests, with very good amplifier and headphones. So S3 should be better, just use a good amp with it.

post #425 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

 

 

Why would you use a separate DAC with S3?   Even the Galaxy S DAC sounds better than majority of <1000$ standalone DAC's.   Definitely sounds as good as Musical Fidelity M1DAC, confirmed in blind tests, with very good amplifier and headphones. So S3 should be better, just use a good amp with it.

For me, the headphone out sounds a bit anemic, and I always abide by the golden rule of not amping something that is already amped - as such, using the E7/E11 combo sounds substantially better than the head-out to the E11 on its own...

post #426 of 947

asdklf


Edited by Gilly87 - 6/30/12 at 4:41am
post #427 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

Why would you use a separate DAC with S3?   Even the Galaxy S DAC sounds better than majority of <1000$ standalone DAC's.   Definitely sounds as good as Musical Fidelity M1DAC, confirmed in blind tests, with very good amplifier and headphones. So S3 should be better, just use a good amp with it.

 

Actually the only 'confirmed in blind tests' source(s) for this are 2 threads started by you. While it's great that you've provided useful info like that in your threads (and in a fairly analytical and detailed manner), it's just one person's experiments with the Galaxy S, their music, amp and cans (not to mention ears). I don't see it as a reason (so early on) for other people to not bother working out how to use an external DAC with the Galaxy S3. Maybe he's confirmed that the S3 sounds better with the pico (at least with his cans, music etc)?

 

Anyway, thanks akwok for letting people know that the pico works with the S3 so there's a more complete list available for people trying to figure out which DAC/Amp devices are compatible with the S3.

 

Edit: Here's the links to derbigpr's threads. Both are great reads and provide interesting food for thought:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/616438/samsung-galaxy-s-vs-musical-fidelity-m1dac-unbelievable-does-my-dac-work

http://www.head-fi.org/t/616486/how-to-make-sure-if-the-dac-is-working


Edited by analogue 3 - 6/30/12 at 7:04am
post #428 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post

For me, the headphone out sounds a bit anemic, and I always abide by the golden rule of not amping something that is already amped - as such, using the E7/E11 combo sounds substantially better than the head-out to the E11 on its own...

 

 

Yea, obviously the headphone out is anemic, its not very powerful. But when you connect the amp into it, it sounds much better.

post #429 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogue 3 View Post

 

Actually the only 'confirmed in blind tests' source(s) for this are 2 threads started by you. While it's great that you've provided useful info like that in your threads (and in a fairly analytical and detailed manner), it's just one person's experiments with the Galaxy S, their music, amp and cans (not to mention ears). I don't see it as a reason (so early on) for other people to not bother working out how to use an external DAC with the Galaxy S3. Maybe he's confirmed that the S3 sounds better with the pico (at least with his cans, music etc)?

 

Anyway, thanks akwok for letting people know that the pico works with the S3 so there's a more complete list available for people trying to figure out which DAC/Amp devices are compatible with the S3.

 

Edit: Here's the links to derbigpr's threads. Both are great reads and provide interesting food for thought:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/616438/samsung-galaxy-s-vs-musical-fidelity-m1dac-unbelievable-does-my-dac-work

http://www.head-fi.org/t/616486/how-to-make-sure-if-the-dac-is-working

 

 

 

I will make videos. I will records the sound coming out of the headphones from close range with a microphone, and then change the sources as the sound is being recorded.  And while that certainly won't translate all the sound quality from reality into the video,  it will at least demonstrate that there is no changes whatsoever in the sound coming out of the headphones when changing sources.

post #430 of 947

^I'm just confused how S3+Amp (or Galaxy S as per your tests) alone can be be better than standalone DAC+Amp. I know this doesn't always mean much, but on paper the components in the stand alone DAC is better than the on board DAC (e.g. going on Wolfson specs for the respective DAC models). Now I know (thanks to people on here) that this isn't usually the only deciding factor since it all depends on the design and how well it's implemented. However, companies like that making the Pico etc know their trade well and should be able to do a better job than Samsung (for quality cans and lossless music).
 

post #431 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogue 3 View Post

^I'm just confused how S3+Amp (or Galaxy S as per your tests) alone can be be better than standalone DAC+Amp.

 

Because the part that matters in a DAC, is the chip itself, not the heavy, fancy looking metal case with a table sized circuit board with lots of useless and unnecessary additional components that don't improve the sound. :P    I'm not saying Galaxy S + Bellari Ha540 is better than M1DAC + Bellari Ha540, I'm saying is absolutely identical, down to the slightest nuance possible to hear by undamaged young ears. :P   On paper DAC in M1 is superior, but those advantaged its got, are beyond the point of diminishing return, and in order to be experienced, I'd probably need a seriously high end headphone + amp setup.

 

Its similar to how a small amp that is basically a wire with gain like O2 can sound as good as a much more expensive and bigger amp, as it was confirmed by many blind tests, there's a thread here on this forum about it.


Edited by derbigpr - 6/30/12 at 7:44am
post #432 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

Because the part that matters in a DAC, is the chip itself, not the heavy, fancy looking metal case with a table sized circuit board with lots of useless and unnecessary additional components that don't improve the sound. :P    I'm not saying Galaxy S + Bellari Ha540 is better than M1DAC + Bellari Ha540, I'm saying is absolutely identical, down to the slightest nuance possible to hear by undamaged young ears. :P   On paper DAC in M1 is superior, but those advantaged its got, are beyond the point of diminishing return, and in order to be experienced, I'd probably need a seriously high end headphone + amp setup.

 

If it's just the DAC chip that matters, the specs indicate that there should be a difference in quality:

Wolfson WM1811 which is in the non US S3

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/audio_hubs/WM1811/

 

Wolfson WM8960 which is in higher end dedicated PMPs like Cowons

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/codecs/WM8960/

 

Wolfson WM8740 which is used in fairly affordable quality standalone external DACs (usually in dual config) such as (portable) iBasso D12 or the (desktop) DacMagic

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8740/

 

You can see a gradually increasing SNR. Are you saying that once you get to around 100db SNR (the S3's DAC), the diminishing returns are so large that one can't tell the difference (if only in a macro view of the overall listening experience) with fairly affordable equipment (<$500 for cans and amp?)


Edited by analogue 3 - 6/30/12 at 11:38am
post #433 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogue 3 View Post

 


Are you saying that once you get to around 100db SNR (the S3's DAC), the diminishing returns are so large that one can't tell the difference (if only in a macro view of the overall listening experience) with fairly affordable equipment (<$500 for cans and amp?)

 

Yes, not that the SNR is the only thing that matters, but yes it is true that diminishing returns are too large.  Do you honestly think that you or anyone could hear a hiss so quiet it would be barely audible without the music playing, WHEN the music is playing at 100db or higher loudness? Or notice the difference between 110 or 100 db SNR? No chance, not with human ears.

post #434 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

Yes, not that the SNR is the only thing that matters, but yes it is true that diminishing returns are too large.  Do you honestly think that you or anyone could hear a hiss so quiet it would be barely audible without the music playing, WHEN the music is playing at 100db or higher loudness? Or notice the difference between 110 or 100 db SNR? No chance, not with human ears.

 

You've given me some fairly interesting food for thought. I guess there are still important factors (at least to many listeners) for what provides a better listening experience such as distinctive sound from various models, setups (synergy etc) and so forth. Whilst some people prefer ultra clear (cold?

dark? I don't know the lingo) sound, others actually prefer bright, or emphasised lows/bassy etc. Just to bring the conversation back full circle to where we started, I can still see appreciate how people might still decide to go with an external DAC on their S3 for that reason.

 

Also, I appreciate the intent to provide some more evidence to support your findings and conclusion about the Galaxy S + Bellari Ha540 vs M1DAC + Bellari Ha540. I'll be subscribing to the threads to see how it turns out and what all the people who are more knowledgeable than me have to say.

 

Still, I'm surprised that the dual DACs (1 for each signal) in your M1DAC wouldn't provide a better listening experience than the Galaxy S's onboard DAC.

post #435 of 947
These types of arguments appeared in the Westone ES5 thread and the opinions were also mixed. The subject however is the CLAS which is a DAC dedicated to i devices. The iPhone has a line out which can be used to compare sound a bit more fairly using the same headphone amps. For me, I do hear an improvement on my ES5 but I admit that the difference is not night and day. There is also no solid conclusion so we'd better stop the argument here than let the whole thread derail again.

One of these days I would try connecting my S3 to my Esoteric K01 though, if I can find a flat UsB to square type USB cable. But I don't have high hopes either, because my experience with the K01 is that it truly shines with larger speaker systems, where differences in imaging and instrument placements and details retrieval become much more apparent than speaker systems in a small room, let alone headphones or IEMs. While there are always audible difference in terms of soundstage even in headphones or IEMs, without a Smyth Realizer, they just don't have any soundstage to speak of compared with a decent speaker system in a reasonably sized room.
Edited by googleli - 6/30/12 at 3:28pm
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