EQ = sound quality?

I am using J RIVER with the ROCK preset and I am very happy with that sound, because it works for all genres.

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silversurfer616 said:

I am using J RIVER with the ROCK preset and I am very happy with that sound, because it works for all genres.

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Oh nice I just got J river my self, but I still use FooBar... I only got J River because I was told it can manage my Hifiman Hm 601 in the rare case that windows can't do it via explorer 
 
But FooBar is a nice Eq, and interestingly enough my new Dt 880's dont even need any EQ'ing... [unless I try to play dub step out of them than the Bass get's a little bump] 

EQ is the most powerful tool you have for improving sound quality, short of getting new headphones.

wow, VERY interesting thread, i actually read every single post. i was just messing about with eqs in the recent past and though im pretty good with computers, im very bad with software and i couldnt get the vst thing in foobar to work, or rather, the vst works, but i cant seem to get any equalizer to come up with it. so i pm'ed a member of the forum (although i dont see him posting in this specific forum) and asked for help, he said that software eq was too much of a chore for him (and i can see why - if your meant to eq each new song individually) and that he preferred hardware. before everyone jumps in and says that dacs and amps are ment to have a flat response and eqing with them is a crime, ill say that we were talking about bass and this guy simply said that a good hardware bump from an amp that boosts all the bass frequencies and not just the mid bass should do nicely. i also looked at the frequency charts for the fiio e11 and saw that on the bass boost function, all other frequencies are lowered aswell as the bass being boosted (i listen to electronical music and bass is importand to me, i refuse to apologize about it). some opinions on this please.
 
on the main topic i have this to say: you said your used to using an eq and that when you dont all the music sounds bad, id like to suggest this is similar to "burn in". one uses headphones A and is accustomed to the way they sound. then one gets headphones B and feels these cans sound not as good, so he burns them in for 40 hours, gets used to the way they sound and then thinks that after all the "exercise" the diaphragm had its now in shape - amazing! burn in is real! 
similarly, if your used to using an eq, when you dont, you dont like the way things sound. im suggesting that if you spent a couple of hours listening without using and eq, you may start to like it better?
furthermore, i feel that using an eq (again, this is based mainly on what iv read on this thread) is similar to smoking - addictive. what happens when your usual dap breaks down and the eq your used to is no longer available? youll have to use some other dap and youll get withdrawal simptoms (the music wont sound as good). its like you get "hooked" on listening to your music with and eq and then you kinda become dependent on it (i for one can not commute without music).
 
if your so used to the way things sound with an eq, whats the point of getting different headphones? youll eq them to the match the same criteria... this is an honest question.
now this is all a bit cheeky for a new member to suggest, im not trying to offend, im trying to learn, so id like some opinions please.
 
also, someone said that on the bus he has to use very high volumes to erase all the sound? i dont know, i use iems and it seems to be good enough... i do like the high volumes (im such a fool) but their not THAT excessive...
 
LFF thank you for the link for "educating your self about audio".
 
one last thing, im given to understand that there is a difference between eq's frequencies? could someone explain? is this about how many subdivisions into frequency groups each eq has?

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adamlr said:

wow, VERY interesting thread, i actually read every single post. i was just messing about with eqs in the recent past and though im pretty good with computers, im very bad with software and i couldnt get the vst thing in foobar to work, or rather, the vst works, but i cant seem to get any equalizer to come up with it. so i pm'ed a member of the forum (although i dont see him posting in this specific forum) and asked for help, he said that software eq was too much of a chore for him (and i can see why - if your meant to eq each new song individually) and that he preferred hardware. before everyone jumps in and says that dacs and amps are ment to have a flat response and eqing with them is a crime, ill say that we were talking about bass and this guy simply said that a good hardware bump from an amp that boosts all the bass frequencies and not just the mid bass should do nicely. i also looked at the frequency charts for the fiio e11 and saw that on the bass boost function, all other frequencies are lowered aswell as the bass being boosted (i listen to electronical music and bass is importand to me, i refuse to apologize about it). some opinions on this please.

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I wouldn't EQ each song individually. I wouldn't even EQ different genres differently, unless they are completely unrelated such as classical and EDM.
 
Using DAC/amps with a non-flat frequency response to "equalize" IS a crime. Nah, I mean that I wouldn't want such a device if that is a fixed feature which cannot be disabled. Amps with bass boosts are fine and easy to use and there's not much the end user can do wrong, so .
 
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on the main topic i have this to say: you said your used to using an eq and that when you dont all the music sounds bad, id like to suggest this is similar to "burn in". one uses headphones A and is accustomed to the way they sound. then one gets headphones B and feels these cans sound not as good, so he burns them in for 40 hours, gets used to the way they sound and then thinks that after all the "exercise" the diaphragm had its now in shape - amazing! burn in is real!  similarly, if your used to using an eq, when you dont, you dont like the way things sound. im suggesting that if you spent a couple of hours listening without using and eq, you may start to like it better?
furthermore, i feel that using an eq (again, this is based mainly on what iv read on this thread) is similar to smoking - addictive. what happens when your usual dap breaks down and the eq your used to is no longer available? youll have to use some other dap and youll get withdrawal simptoms (the music wont sound as good). its like you get "hooked" on listening to your music with and eq and then you kinda become dependent on it (i for one can not commute without music).

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You make a very good point there. I agree but find the addiction part a bit over the top.
 
But there's one thing I have to add. If you have calibrated speakers in a treated room which you listen to regularly and therefore have a reference point it's not that easy to get accustomed to heapdhones that sound different. (And most do sound quite a bit different. Manufacturers can only equalize headphones to a certain degree, mechanically that is.) So that's one reason why I apply EQ, not just because I prefer how it sounds, but because it sounds more right, closer to the reference.
 
 
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if your so used to the way things sound with an eq, whats the point of getting different headphones? youll eq them to the match the same criteria... this is an honest question.
now this is all a bit cheeky for a new member to suggest, im not trying to offend, im trying to learn, so id like some opinions please.

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Different headphone types (in-, on-, over-ear / closed, open etc.) have different fields of application. Comfort, isolation, portability all are different. You wouldn't want to wear a full-size open headphone on your daily bus ride, but maybe at home in your reading chair.
 
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one last thing, im given to understand that there is a difference between eq's frequencies? could someone explain? is this about how many subdivisions into frequency groups each eq has?

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There's basically two types of equalizers: graphic and parametric.
Graphic EQs are kinda "what you see is what you get". The audio spectrum is split into multiple frequency bands. A very simple graphic EQ would give you 3 bands: one for bass, one for mids, one for treble. A more sophisticated one might have 30 bands so you can do more precise adjustments.
Parametric EQs give you the flexibility to set the filters exactly like you want. So you cannot just set the gain but also the center frequency, width (or Q), shape (bell, shelving etc.). Google graphic/parametric EQs and you'll see what I mean.

edit: that quoting business didnt work like i thought it did, thats why the lines
 
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xnor said:

I wouldn't EQ each song individually. I wouldn't even EQ different genres differently, unless they are completely unrelated such as classical and EDM.

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so what was that being said about presets being bad?
 
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xnor said:

Using DAC/amps with a non-flat frequency response to "equalize" IS a crime.

Nah, I mean that I wouldn't want such a device if that is a fixed feature which cannot be disabled. Amps with bass boosts are fine and easy to use and there's not much the end user can do wrong, so

.

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that is actually what i meant, im talking about an amp with a button that increases the bass =]
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xnor said:

 
You make a very good point there. I agree but find the addiction part a bit over the top.
 
But there's one thing I have to add. If you have calibrated speakers in a treated room which you listen to regularly and therefore have a reference point it's not that easy to get accustomed to heapdhones that sound different. (And most do sound quite a bit different. Manufacturers can only equalize headphones to a certain degree, mechanically that is.) So that's one reason why I apply EQ, not just because I prefer how it sounds, but because it sounds more right, closer to the reference.

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alright, the reference point is a variable. accepted, so long as your saying its closer to your reference, and not "what the artists intended" or whatnot, cause i really dont get that. 
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Quote:

xnor said:

Different headphone types (in-, on-, over-ear / closed, open etc.) have different fields of application. Comfort, isolation, portability all are different. You wouldn't want to wear a full-size open headphone on your daily bus ride, but maybe at home in your reading chair.

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thats not what i meant, im talking about having dt 770s and then upgrading to say - ultrasone pro 900 (just an example, nevermind if you actually think this is an upgrade or not). if i equalize them to sound the same, then whats the point of upgrading? this may sound like a dumb question (even to myself admittedly). im basically asking where the line between difference in headphones and difference between eq'ed/non eq'ed is drawn.
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Quote:

xnor said:

 
There's basically two types of equalizers: graphic and parametric.
Graphic EQs are kinda "what you see is what you get". The audio spectrum is split into multiple frequency bands. A very simple graphic EQ would give you 3 bands: one for bass, one for mids, one for treble. A more sophisticated one might have 30 bands so you can do more precise adjustments.
Parametric EQs give you the flexibility to set the filters exactly like you want. So you cannot just set the gain but also the center frequency, width (or Q), shape (bell, shelving etc.). Google graphic/parametric EQs and you'll see what I mean.

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sorry, i still didnt quite understand... the eq in foobar for example, which kind is that? what other kind exists? which is the one i can change the sound signature with, and why would i want to in the 1st place? iv already googled this and i didnt find a conclusive answer, only that its best to use a parametric one... if theres a simple short answer then please do share, but i have a feeling were getting into more complex areas and theres no need for that, i have bookmarked many articles and tutorials on HOW to eq, i just havnt read them yet. in time, if i feel the need to, then i will.
 
thank you for replying

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Originally Posted by adamlr /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
so what was that being said about presets being bad?

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I'm not a fan of these presets with labels like "Rock, "Pop", "Classical" etc. Rock and Metal is mastered completely different than Classical for a reason. They're supposed to sound different in terms of frequency response and they do. No need to further boost bass and treble if you listen to Rock or Metal.
The only useful preset I can think of is a loudness curve.
 
What I do is rolling my own preset for each headphone. So basically I use just one preset per headphone for music listening.
 
 
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thats not what i meant, im talking about having dt 770s and then upgrading to say - ultrasone pro 900 (just an example, nevermind if you actually think this is an upgrade or not). if i equalize them to sound the same, then whats the point of upgrading? this may sound like a dumb question (even to myself admittedly). im basically asking where the line between difference in headphones and difference between eq'ed/non eq'ed is drawn.

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Equalizing headphones by hand to sound very similar is difficult.
 
The point of upgrading is:
- you get a new toy to play with
- the headphone might need less equalization to sound the way you want it to
- better isolation, comfort, less distortion, higher efficiency, more suitable for portable/home use etc.
 
Distortion is actually an important point, because you cannot just boost bass as much as you want. Some headphones react well to boosting bass, others just distort.
 
But I guess everyone has to draw his own line.
 
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sorry, i still didnt quite understand... the eq in foobar for example, which kind is that? what other kind exists? which is the one i can change the sound signature with, and why would i want to in the 1st place? iv already googled this and i didnt find a conclusive answer, only that its best to use a parametric one... if theres a simple short answer then please do share, but i have a feeling were getting into more complex areas and theres no need for that, i have bookmarked many articles and tutorials on HOW to eq, i just havnt read them yet. in time, if i feel the need to, then i will.  
thank you for replying

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The foobar2k one is a graphic EQ with 18 bands:

 
Electri-Q is a parametric one:

 
As you can see with the parametric one you can set up a filter to cut at exactly 500 Hz by 5 dB and you get a smooth curve. With a graphic EQ you're limited to whatever the bands are set to. Whether the resulting curve is smooth with a graphic EQ depends on the implementation.
 
Take a look at my thread for a small comparison of built-in EQs. (scroll down to the frequency response graphs)

Quote:

xnor said:

I'm not a fan of these presets with labels like "Rock, "Pop", "Classical" etc. Rock and Metal is mastered completely different than Classical for a reason. They're supposed to sound different in terms of frequency response and they do. No need to further boost bass and treble if you listen to Rock or Metal.
The only useful preset I can think of is a loudness curve.
 
What I do is rolling my own preset for each headphone. So basically I use just one preset per headphone for music listening.
 
 
Equalizing headphones by hand to sound very similar is difficult.
 
The point of upgrading is:
- you get a new toy to play with

- the headphone might need less equalization to sound the way you want it to
- better isolation, comfort, less distortion, higher efficiency, more suitable for portable/home use etc.
 
Distortion is actually an important point, because you cannot just boost bass as much as you want. Some headphones react well to boosting bass, others just distort.
 
But I guess everyone has to draw his own line.
 
The foobar2k one is a graphic EQ with 18 bands:

 
Electri-Q is a parametric one:

 
As you can see with the parametric one you can set up a filter to cut at exactly 500 Hz by 5 dB and you get a smooth curve. With a graphic EQ you're limited to whatever the bands are set to. Whether the resulting curve is smooth with a graphic EQ depends on the implementation.
 
Take a look at my thread for a small comparison of built-in EQs. (scroll down to the frequency response graphs)

Click to expand...

very cool, thank you. is there any way you would provide a link where to download electri-q and possibly explain how to get it to work in foobar?

Download and install electri-q.
 
Download foo_vst, open foobar2000, go to preferences - components, drag the foo_vst zip file into the components list (or click Install and locate the zip file). Press ok and foobar2000 will restart.
 
Now go again to preferences, under components on the left side there should now be VST plug-ins, click it and add electri-q from the installation directory (C:\Program Files (x86)\VstPlugins). Press ok and fb2k will restart again.
 
Now go to preferences the last time, DSP Manager, add electri-q from the list of available DSPs (right side) to the active DSPs (left side) by double clicking. Click electri-q on the left side and then the configure button. You can play tracks in the background while you configure the EQ.
 
 
To add filters just click on the line. Double click the dot to configure the filter. Press del on the keyboard to delete the filter.
Example: For a bass boost click at 100 Hz, double click, set gain to -3 dB, bandwidth 1.6 then right click and choose basic - high shelf. 

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xnor said:

Download and install electri-q.
 
Download foo_vst, open foobar2000, go to preferences - components, drag the foo_vst zip file into the components list (or click Install and locate the zip file). Press ok and foobar2000 will restart.
 
Now go again to preferences, under components on the left side there should now be VST plug-ins, click it and add electri-q from the installation directory (C:\Program Files (x86)\VstPlugins). Press ok and fb2k will restart again.
 
Now go to preferences the last time, DSP Manager, add electri-q from the list of available DSPs (right side) to the active DSPs (left side) by double clicking. Click electri-q on the left side and then the configure button. You can play tracks in the background while you configure the EQ.
 
 
To add filters just click on the line. Double click the dot to configure the filter. Press del on the keyboard to delete the filter.
Example: For a bass boost click at 100 Hz, double click, set gain to -3 dB, bandwidth 1.6 then right click and choose basic - high shelf. 

Click to expand...

fantastic! thank you so much! as i said i already had a vst plug in, but after downloading the electri-q i tried continuing on and it wouldnt let me. so i got rid of the one i had and downloaded the one you supplied and then it worked, so i guess i had a bad installation of vst? anyway, thank you very very much, i imagine ill be playing with this eq quite a bit now XD

No I think you had the trial version installed instead of the freeware version I linked above. For a clean signal use digital mode and enable eco. Enjoy.
 
edit: do enable eco, see follow up comments

why use 30 band when you can use 250 band?
if you are wondering this is called a simple name "equalizer" it is made by Nevi, its a DSP for winamp
not sure if you can use it as a standalone though, its freeware too

feel like posting more here when i wake up

Quote:

xnor said:

Download and install electri-q.
 
Download foo_vst, open foobar2000, go to preferences - components, drag the foo_vst zip file into the components list (or click Install and locate the zip file). Press ok and foobar2000 will restart.
 
Now go again to preferences, under components on the left side there should now be VST plug-ins, click it and add electri-q from the installation directory (C:\Program Files (x86)\VstPlugins). Press ok and fb2k will restart again.
 
Now go to preferences the last time, DSP Manager, add electri-q from the list of available DSPs (right side) to the active DSPs (left side) by double clicking. Click electri-q on the left side and then the configure button. You can play tracks in the background while you configure the EQ.
 
 
To add filters just click on the line. Double click the dot to configure the filter. Press del on the keyboard to delete the filter.
Example: For a bass boost click at 100 Hz, double click, set gain to -3 dB, bandwidth 1.6 then right click and choose basic - high shelf. 

Click to expand...

ZOMG FTW, I'm most certianly getting that when I get home <3 looks wonderful! And the Dt 880s could use a MEGA bass boost for listening to mah Drum n Bass [other wise they r perfecto]

Quote:

streetdragon said:

why use 30 band when you can use 250 band?

if you are wondering this is called a simple name "equalizer" it is made by Nevi, its a DSP for winamp
not sure if you can use it as a standalone though, its freeware too

feel like posting more here when i wake up

Click to expand...

I tried that before, the bass got horribly distorted when I turned it up. 

You should always EQ subtractively. Instead of turning the bass up, pull all the other frequencies down. If you boost, you'll push the bass into clipping and it will distort.
 
If you notice, everything on that graph is under the zero line.