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Audio-Gd Reference 10 - Page 17

post #241 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tini View Post

Hey Clemmaster,

 

Yarbo 8000 is indead a little stiff but great value for money. I also use the Yarbo SP-PSC-3C to my speakers (Klein & Hummel O300), a little expencive but perfect quality. The guys at Yarbo know what they are doing ;-).

 

Do you use USB on the ref 10? Because then you have to try the Ortofon DGI-K2 Silver USB. I used the Audioquest Forest before and switched to the Ortofon, this realy opened up the sound without any harsh. It's not very expencive compared to other pure silver (data wires) cables.

 

Regards,

Tini

 

Where did you buy the Ortofon DGI-K2 Silver USB from? I'm only finding it though Japanese websites.

post #242 of 356

I bought it directly from Ortofon because I couldn't get it in the Netherlands.

Just send a mail to info@ortofon.jp.

They can tell you where to buy it or send it to you directly.

 

@Lorspeaker; would be interesting to compare. Looks also as a good cable.

 

Regards,

Tini

post #243 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzxgene View Post

After lots of experimenting and trial and error, I can now say that the stock settings do sound best provided the quality of your chain is high enough. The stopband diffuses the soundstage but can mellow out harsher treble, which is what I was using it for. It turns out I was using a horrible excuse for a power cord on my reference 10 that overbloated bass and etched the treble. You probably don't have that problem if you are using the stock cord, but I never have and probably never will (and don't know if that has a similar effect). As for the hardware dithering, leave it active for the occasional 16 bit sound passing through your system and grab Jriver when funds allow, as the bit depth upsampling to 32 bits negates the built in dithering and adds some perceivable depth/layering to the sound. Make sure to use ASIO and flash one of your firmware chips to the newest one #7 (or order the chip through kingwa) as it is very nice sounding (coming from #4). 

 

Last thing is that you should try aftermarket power cords if you think it might be something that could influence the sound of your unit. I'm using a shunyata venom 3 to great effect on all my equipment. Stay away from pangea anything at this level though.


Yeah that particular bad experience just puts my cable itches away. Now I'm using USB cable that was included in my monitor and a normal computer power cable. They worked fine, perhaps until someone bring a cable , connects to my setup and injects more "upgrade poison". deadhorse.gif

 

If I am to upgrade my cables I would probably work on power source all together, which will be a very expensive project :P

 

Tini,

Ortofon DGI-K2  that looks like a solid recommendation.

post #244 of 356

There is a 30days return policy on Cabledyne...

Free domestic shipping...

i strongly recommend a listen to this usb. 

http://www.cabledyne.com/ordering.html

post #245 of 356

Hi OneSec,

You can get poor if you buy the best of the best, but as always you won't find the best value for money in that category. I am always looking for very high quality with a small price tag, that's why I bought the Ref 10.
In my quest for upgrading the power source I found that the Yarbo power cables and the Bada filter are not very expencive. Look at http://www.audiocrast.com. I will never say it's the best you can buy, but I certanly can say it's very good value for money.
But there are more brands that are very good, this is my personal taste and choice.
My USB cable was a big surprise because I liked the Audioquest and I did not expect this much improvement.
I worked about 20 years in the audio business and I have a strong preference for the sound of pure silver but I didn't think that the difference would be that big with a digital cable. But we learn every day L3000.gif!!
And the Ortofon price tag was a lot smaller than other pure silver USB cables. But I think the Cabledyne USB cable, which Lorspeaker reccomends, could also be a good choice. Compare and look at the price tags is my advise.

 

Good luck on your choices!

Regards,

Tini

post #246 of 356

.


Edited by blitzxgene - 7/7/13 at 7:00pm
post #247 of 356

these latest contributions are counter to the value that AGD is about, move this type of conversation to the other cable threads please

post #248 of 356

From the Master 7 info page:

 

3, Attention must be given to matching suitable power cable, coaxial cable and output signal cable.

 

I admit i'm helping to derailing the thread though, so I deleted my post.

post #249 of 356

I just got a Reference-10.32 with the TCXO upgrade a bit over a week ago (around 200 hours burn-in) and it is truly a beastly piece of audio equipment. Upgrading from my NFB-10ES I am finding it highly detailed with a huge 3D soundstage, perfect tonal balance, and very natural / analog sounding.

 

One thing that I have not noticed anyone commenting on in this thread, yet many wondering about, is whether the Reference 10 can drive the Hifiman HE-6. The answer is a resounding YES! The NFB-10ES did a great job driving them and the Reference 10 does at least as good of job (hard to compare since they are both combo units with DAC+Amp) despite having less output power. They sound extremely detailed, tonally balanced, and have a huge soundstage from the Ref 10. Bass could probably be better (more quantity and extension) if you got a beastly amp  just for the HE-6 but the Ref 10's amp is no slouch.

 

Now for what I really came here to post about since people have been debating them the last few pages: cables. First of all I emailed Kingwa to get his opinion on whether power and USB cables could make a difference with the Ref 10 and here are his thoughts:

 

Quote Email from Kingwa:
I am consider the USB cable only need shorter and have good shield is ok.
I think the power cable is more important than the USB cable, but want to choice based on the sound flavor.
Bigger dia on the wires usually have better dynamic and bass.
Different metail and configuration on the cable make the different sound flavors.

Personally I have found (in the past) that both types of cables make a slight difference and I am using the only power cable that I have been able to hear a difference with, the Pangea AC-9, to connect to the Ref 10.

 

I actually could not tell a difference between the AC9 and a Monoprice 12awg cable at first, but this was due to the piss poor wall outlet in my new apartment. It was a 2 pin forcing me to use crummy cheater plugs to connect, the contacts were loose and had paint on them (wow) and the wires were heavily corroded.  So I replaced the outlet with a Hubbell HB5362 which was relatively inexpensive, and cleaned the copper wires so that they are nice and shiny. I also moved my stuff around so the Ref 10 is on its own 20-amp circuit. Now I can definitely tell a slight improvement in soundstage and bass quantity/extension with the AC9.

 

Now onto USB cables. I purchased 1m Cabledyne Silver Reference, Lacie Flat USB (1.2m), Pangea USB-Ag, and Pangea USB-PC to compare them to eachother and against the stock cable.

 

Pangea USB-Ag: Similar to USB-PC with slight treble emphasis whereas USB-PC has a more balanced sound. Soundstage seems slightly larger and there is more detail. Slightly fatiguing on long listening sessions with my system (probably due to the HE-6 -- it would be a good match for "darker" headphones like LCD-2).

 

Pangea USB-PC: Similar to stock cable with slightly more precision, larger soundstage, and better overall detail.

 

Cabledyne Silver Reference: Balanced sound with at least as much treble detail as the Pangea USB-Ag, but without any fatigue. Sound has slightly more depth and bass extension. More detail in bass and midrange than USB-Ag. Large, encompassing soundstage with better channel separation (not necessarily good).

 

Stock (translucent blue w/ shielding) cable: Good for a cheap stock cable. Slight emphasis on bass with similar extension as Cabledyne but notes have less precision (harder to distinguish different instruments etc.). Soundstage is slightly shallower / less encompassing than Cabledyne with slightly less detail especially in treble.

 

Lacie Flat USB Cable: I was very surprised by the performance of this cable. It comes right behind the Cabledyne in performance. Nice open soundstage, tonally balanced, and detailed. Very similar in every way to the Cabledyne except slightly less detail and soundstage depth. The two cables are so similar sounding that I had to do many comparisons to pinpoint the differences. It actually sounded better than either Pangea cable... wow. If you look hard enough you can get these for $10 but I've been seeing them around $20 since I think they were discontinued.

 

I rank them: Cabledyne > Lacie Flat USB > USB-Ag = USB-PC > Stock.

 

USB-Ag is better than USB-PC if you like detail and especially treble in your system, perhaps it would be a good match with "darker" headphones like the LCD-2, or speakers that need a little kick in the treble. The Cabledyne was clearly better than both of the Pangea cables although the difference is nothing earth-shattering. I was impressed with the stock cable considering its $0 price tag, and I think cable non-believers can be happy with their choice.

 

For $30 though, I think the Pangea USB-PC would be good to try and you can return it within 30 days for a refund if you don't like it. If you want to try an entry level cable get a 1.2m Lacie Flat USB for $10-20 -- this cable sounds remarkable for the price and easily beats the stock cable. For bigger spenders the Cabledyne is nice, but you must gauge your expectations as to how much improvement it will bring -- subtle but noticeable. If I had $100 total to spend I would get a Lacie Flat USB and Pangea AC9 power cable -- this will bring more difference than the Cabledyne alone in my opinion.

 

Whether you believe cables make a difference or not, I recommend taking the +5V pin out of the equation by either removing it or covering it with tape. Even though the USB32 does not use the +5V pin it will still carry noise from your computer and may distort the USB signal.


Edited by somestranger26 - 7/12/13 at 1:51am
post #250 of 356

Please get rid of the Pangea 9 if you can help it. I was running that on mine before and it really etched the treble/added fatigue. 

post #251 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzxgene View Post

Please get rid of the Pangea 9 if you can help it. I was running that on mine before and it really etched the treble/added fatigue. 

I have not noticed this effect in my system (at least not compared to stock cable or monoprice 12awg) but maybe I will have to try another in my system such as the Cabledyne power cable once I have some more money to burn (Ref 10 burnt clear through my wallet already).

post #252 of 356

Personally my end goals for my equipment are all OCC cables (and their equivalents) with good quality connectors/good shielding. I'm satisfied with my cabledyne usb cable as it sounds good and doesn't make me want to punch kittens. It's high purity silver and well made. Beyond that I can't figure out what would make a cable more expensive. Or worth buying. 

 

(Edit: Taping the +5V pin and the ground (outer most pins on the usb cable portion plugging into the computer) did help things sound better. Might be too separated now though. Doesn't seem to be much blending going on anymore but each individual sound coming from where ever in the mix. Neat sounding though.)


Edited by blitzxgene - 7/11/13 at 10:01pm
post #253 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzxgene View Post

(Edit: Taping the +5V pin and the ground (outer most pins on the usb cable portion plugging into the computer) did help things sound better. Might be too separated now though. Doesn't seem to be much blending going on anymore but each individual sound coming from where ever in the mix. Neat sounding though.)

Hmm I didn't know you could block the ground pin too; I'll have to try that! My old converter could go without the +5V but the ground was still necessary to function.

 

By the way, I got the Lacie Flat USB cable and posted my impressions in my post above. That thing is a beast for the price; it came so close in performance to the Cabledyne I almost packed the Cabledyne up to return. The Cabledyne is still the winner, albeit by a very small margin that probably isn't worth the $130 price difference to most. I highly recommend the Lacie to the crowd that uses cheapo printer cables or monoprice (sound notwithstanding, their USB cables have crap build quality) to connect to their Ref 10 since it is so affordable.

post #254 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by somestranger26 View Post

Hmm I didn't know you could block the ground pin too; I'll have to try that! My old converter could go without the +5V but the ground was still necessary to function.

 

By the way, I got the Lacie Flat USB cable and posted my impressions in my post above. That thing is a beast for the price; it came so close in performance to the Cabledyne I almost packed the Cabledyne up to return. The Cabledyne is still the winner, albeit by a very small margin that probably isn't worth the $130 price difference to most. I highly recommend the Lacie to the crowd that uses cheapo printer cables or monoprice (sound notwithstanding, their USB cables have crap build quality) to connect to their Ref 10 since it is so affordable.

 

On a budget cable note, stay away from any hybrid copper/silver cables. (silver plated copper, silver core with copper sheath, etc) They tend to bring out the best and worst of copper and silver. On a power cable note, it will have the largest impact on system sound over anything else. Digital and analog cables will bring out what is already there, but power cords can really tune a system to your preference. How to figure out which one actually falls into your preference... Best to find companies with 30 day return policies.


Edited by blitzxgene - 7/12/13 at 11:44am
post #255 of 356

Cabledyne uses pure silver; every cable/usb/pc adds to the overall SQ,

everytime i switch out and switch back one of the cables i hav, i am impressed by how good this cabledyne is.

 

3days ago i just had a wow experience when i innocently plugged a stock pwcord into my darkvoice to test out a tube..it was ok..

then i switch to the cabledyne pc n the sound went "holographic" ...

as if the closed cups of my pro900 got blown off, as if its an open can.

 

:etysmile:

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