That was unthinkable,just rising the voltage of Opamp please.Cut the +5V supply to Opamp leave the 0.1uf cap,-5v are only to the Opamp, no need fly the conecting line.

Sorry, i have confused myself on the images and something else. I had fun with other stuff in the last 2 years, the smaller details are fading.

Is me didn't said in detail,ok,now upgrade here's X-FI MOD final version,picture was edited,some different but basic from you,so enjoy it,thank you RAMA!

Last question focused on the C119, Elna SilmicII have the Polyester caps sounds there,Elna Cerafine's bass no good than tant caps,but different tant caps different sounds, different voltage values different sounds, wish smebody fowllow this and find the best one share for us.

In order to strengthen the filtering of negative voltage, increase power reserve.
I'm changed some caps values:
 
*C75* 22uf to 220uf;
*C46* 100uf to 220uf;
*C56* 22uf to 56uf,
and shorted a resistance *R235*
 
This is my first step,if you do not change the Opamp voltage and do not replac other caps,wish sounds has a big improved,on the back of the PCB,just parallel a few caps can be.
 
If you want to continue,please get ready to sound not as good as the first step.

Final version upgrade now...I have been using SILMICII replaced the CERAFINE 100uf/16v,and carefully adjust the ADC part again,now everything is acceptable,Tant cap's sound to me,its not possible to forget, I want to say that no tant caps in it isn't a good soundcard,that the cerafine removed is smiling now.

Hi,
i have only access to the Op-Amps from this store, please suggest me alternative as i want to just update from the default opamps on x-fi 460
 
http://www.evselectro.com/ics/op-amps?page=1
 
here are the items listed there but i dont know which ones are audio grade and good quality.
 
here is the list from webstore
 

• CA3130 15MHz with MOSFET Input/CMOS Output
• AD707 Ultralow Drift
• AD622 Instrumentation Amplifier
• 4558D Dual Operational Amplifiers
• LA4440 6W 2-Channel, Bridge 19W Type Power Amplifier
• LM1876TF Dual 20W Audio Power Amplifier
• AD624AD Precision Instrumentation Amplifier
• TL081 Op Amp
• AD708JN Ultralow Dual Op Amp
• AD744 BiFET Op Amp
• LT1054
• MC1458CPI (Duel) Operational Amplifiers
• LF351 JFET input Operational Amplifier
• LF357 JFET input operational amplifier
• LM311N Voltage Comparator
• LM318N High Speed Operational Amplifier
• LM339 Single Supply Quad Comparators HQ
• LM358 Low Power Dual Operational Amplifiers
• LM386 Low Voltage Audio Power Amplifier
• LM393 (Duel)
• LM725
• LM741CN
• LM1875 Audio Power Amplifier
• LM747 (Duel)
• TL064 Op Amp
• TL071 Operational Amplifier
• TL071CP Single Operational Amplifier Original USA
• TL072 Operational Amplifier
• TL074 Low Noise J-FET Quad Operational Amplifirs
• TL082 Operational Amplifier
• TL084 Operational Amplifier
• LF353 Wide Bandwidth Dual JFET Input Operational Amplifier
• LM324 (Quad) Operational Amplifiers
• LM2901 Low-power quad voltage comparator
• LM2902N (Quad)
• LM2903 Low Offset Voltage Dual Comparator
• LM2904 Operational Amplifier

Hello Friends!
 
I have a modified X-fi (modified by the master himself, ramachandra).
 
Since one month i have a really strange issue!
Sometimes my computer suddenly freezes and then there's a loud bass coming out of my speakers for about 0,5 sec, followed by a really high pitch noise that is killing my ears. The only thing i can do at this moment is to turn off my speakers or shut down the computer.
First i thought it was a software issue, so i formatted my hard drive and installed a fresh copy of windows with original creative drivers. And for about one week, everything went fine. I watched movies, heard to music etc... but yesterday evening the same thing happened again while watching a movie.
PC freeze, loud bass followed by loud screech like noise.
I'm really afraid this could damage my speakers - and my ears
 
I hope someone can help!
 
thanks in advance

@blue2010
this may be a little late, but could it be the clock generator?

@ramachandra Thank you for all the time and dedication you took to create this great tutorial! 
I know it's been a while, but I recently bought an X-Fi Elite Pro, and I'm looking to modify it.
I'm thinking to replace the 4 omaps, with the "OPA1602AID" ones, including sockets.
Maybe later I will try the Elna Silmic II 1500uf 16V (or 24V maybe? or 50V?) for the power CAP.
The TCXO clock, i'm a bit scared to try, because of problems that it may bring in the future.. I'm not sure.. But what I do know, is that if everything is going well, I would like to replace more and more caps with the ones you specified.
In any case.. are all the mods listed in the tutorial compatible with the X-Fi Elite Pro? Should I watch out for anything?
The Elite Pro: http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/card-big.jpg
 
Thanks!

Hi,
 
Years ago i got an Elite Pro to upgrade. I dug up some images, the owner was only interested about the front channels. As i recall the decoupling capacitors are the 47uF, the brown Silmics on the image in the crowded area. I had to put some of them to the other side. Probably 0.1uF film landed on the pins of the rest of the caps belong to the DAC (Cerafines on the image). The first line of the capacitors belong to the 3 other DACs from the right, the rest is the 47uF decoupling on the left.
I had some issue with space for the main capacitor so i had to move one Jamicon to the back. I had to cover the panel with a tape for the TCXO and you can see how i managed to stabilize it with epoxy. The two 220uF Silmic II is for the OpAmps.
The orange film is 0.1uF between the V+ V- pins over the OpAmp. People liked it on other forums with different setup, to be honest i just installed it and spent not time to find out how good it is. I moved to external DACs for some time. The two green is 1uF 63V film and a 0.1uF 63V in parallel for the main cap.
 

 

 

 

@ramachandra thanks for the quick reply and for all the great info!
I'm currently REreading everything that is written in the tutorial and trying to understand everything as best as i can, and i'll be back in a day or two with all questions that i have ..so i don't make a mess of the forum
 
Just one question for now: The 1ppm TCXO 24.576MHz clock generator uses 3.3V if i'm not mistaking... and you connected it to the +/-5V floppy molex connecter... Isn't that bad? 
The computer power supply delivers  3.3V to the motherboard through the brown wire. Wouldn't that be a better source of power for the TCXO? 
 
P.S. In comparison with the OPA1602AID, have you had a chance to try these single channel OpAmps? :
 
 LT1028ACN8 
 
 AD797BRZ
 
and these were actually on the "Elfidelity - Revolution X-Fi MOD Sound-Card" (total redesign of X-Fi E.Pro with the aim of creating the best soundcard possible)
2x SA5534N and 2x NE5534AN and 2x LT1028A
 
(all i know is the NE5534 is an OpAmp from the 1980's and is said to sound extremely natural even by today's standards... Just don't know how it fairs against the OPA1602AID)

Upon further inspection, i realized some (if not all) of the 24.576MHz TCXO are dual voltage 3.3v & 5v. But that still begs the question: wouldn't 3.3v be better for the TCXO, in terms of stability, longevity & heat?
 
Anyway, after reading the final pages of the "Hotrodding the X-Fi: A Layman's Guide (No 56k)" i came across these 2 posts from the user @gordo999 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/226975/hotrodding-the-x-fi-a-laymans-guide-no-56k/2160#post_10109783
http://www.head-fi.org/t/226975/hotrodding-the-x-fi-a-laymans-guide-no-56k/2160#post_10121686
and man.. this kinda got me thinking about the long run of these mods. Even @ramachandra after all his experience with this mods, concluded at the end of his tutorial (more or less regarding the Titanium HD), that : "If you are not looking for adventures best bang for the money is to change the OpAmps and the crystal to an ultraprecision clock and be happy."
 
I myself know a thing or two about electronics --not enough to say that i'm an expert-- but some common knowledge that i came across a while back was regarding the big impact that capacitors have on the stability of complex circuitry, and how you should not change the values or "mix and match" CAPs because that might affect the impedance(measured in ohms) and/or may behave slightly different.
I know this should not be the case with Power Filtering CAPs (contrary to what gordo999 said) & that's why i'm still thinking of changing that CAP with something like an Elna Silmic II  16or24V 1000or1500uf(depending on rama's suggestion for the X-Fi E.P. WITH TCXO) + 1uF film + 0.1uF film ...Again this is just my opinion + the "masive" positive experience that other people claim to have after upgrading that CAP. But even @here7423 using the poorly google-translated english, is on to something here: "Digital parts, the main capacitor, I like choose the motherboard capacitor with impedance minimum,can only be Nichicon HZ series's 16v 1800uf, 6.5mOhm,there is no other choice." not regarding the fact that he chose a Nichicon, but regarding the fact that he chose a low impedance CAP (which is actually listed in it's Datasheet). The Silmic II doesn't have this listed. Just thought this might be an interesting perspective besides ESR, as lower impedance CAPs also better handle ripple current (from my understanding).
 
Anyway, while on the subject of longevity of the circuits, Ramachandra, how did your friend's X-Fi E. Pro hold up over the years with these mods? Is it still ok and working?
One thing gordo999 didn't touch upon, was the TCXO oscilator upgrade. But he did scare me a bit on possible incompatibilities with some OpAmps, saying that most aren't just a direct swap, and they might strain the circuitry around them.... Hence a lot of people with modded X-Fi'es, declared their cards dead or malfunctioning after a year or two.
 
I'm waiting to hear your thoughts on this Rama! And of course anybody elses.

The +5V maybe better for the TCXO to reach the optimal working temperature quicker. It has influence over the performance, probably not on the level to be interested.
 
There is a chance most X-Fi card will not last for a decade, with or without modification, still the TCXO remain operational for ages. The modified Titanium on the thread is beyond 3 years old now, the Elite Pro on the image is modified in 2013 January, still kicking. My Titanium HD on the image only used to drive my desktop DACs, and I had removed the components from it for better use. I have it this way for a while, and I had some cracking sound from the optical out for few months and recently all back to normal. Perhaps driver related.
There are 7 other modified cards all of them was done at least 2 years from now, i know the whereabouts for 4 today. A Titanium stopped working for the owner, later turned out just some mess under Win8, nothing serious. The XtremeMusic I was used to do the bypass of the muting circuit was a gift to my brother. He had a a strongly outdated PC with constant problems, he gave it back, he sad it is doing sometime funny things. Few months later his PC had a bad end. The X-Fi still running in my girlfriend's also not great computer, occasionally one of the front channel has no sound until warm up. I haven't investigate, I jut gave her a DAC to use with it. The Titanium I have done for blue2010 is a hard to know, a computer can crash for lot of reasons. I gave my advice what to do against the sonic boom for his Pod free Z5500, I haven't heard about how it turned out for him.
I have no news or complaint about the rest.
 
I respect gordo999's opinion from the technical point, there are very important things to consider during  design and manufacturing, only a fool taking unnecessary risk and gamble with a hardly earned reputation. Still, simply going after plain data and optimal requirement for circuits is proved time to time not always enough for best sound quality by perception.
Look like he unnoticed the trend. Decent sound cards are coming out with DIP8 sockets, allow the user to chose.
For example engineers (yet) can't tell why is a sound difference between two different speaker wires, there are many theories, or even blame on imagination. Wires are plain most common components in electronics, nothing complicated. What about the rest then?....
When a second hand XtremeMusic cost roughly 22$ with shipping and still sound as a competition for the new stuff, I consider a mod worthy the risk & fun. Now, you have a more expensive hardware, it is up to you.
 
There are lot of experiences to read about OpAmps, the important thing they have to pass the test with your gear. The +5V far from ideal, if a chips perform pretty good in other equipment from the +12 and -12V, not necessary live up for the same expectation on this cards by listening. This is one point why the redesigned Elite Pro you linked is still a good a distance to be the best. No offense, it is a nice mod and a good direction, and hard work, yet even wit my limited understanding it is incomplete. Redesigning the card for PCI Express or the ultimate solution is proper external power source is alone a game changer, the Nichicon FW (mostly used) the entry level for audio, and the list can go further... The price started from 1250$ and now i can take it for 50% less included shipping. A generous offer, I just feel sorry for the victims.
 
majkel tried lot of OpAmps, on his tread the the LT1028ACN8 and AD797BRZ is listed, he settled with OPA228p, and later with the OPA2228p when he made some more work on his equipment. I took this chip, and few other most popular on other threads, the above mentioned turn out as the ultimate winner. One day the sample OPA1602 shown up and took the lead. I think I never tried NE5534 on sound cards, in external DACs I found them uninteresting.
 
Believe or not, the main cap still bothering me, because if you think about the X-Fi chip, it is very much the digital part of the card, maybe the first modders just used the well respected Black Gate and we went after that idea like sheep. I do not know how well that part was investigated. Most of the audio grade capacitors are Low ESR and that is what matter for the digital circuits most, a capacitance increase even with a general purpose capacitor is beneficial in that position. Perhaps it has noting to do with audio grade stuff on the first place, only the lowest ESR is the best. If i start today this thread i do a less sloppy work and recheck. I have 1000uF 16V OS-CON in stock, but i do not have the strong imprint burnt in in my mind after years of use anymore, to evaluate.

Wow, great detailed post! thanks Rama! 
I will take into consideration all the info you have shared, and think about what i actually want to do. 
To be honest, except for the poor spectrum of the bass, i almost have nothing against this card. I recently hooked it up to my old PIONEER VSX-D557
>>this guy here>> and using the amplifier's Treble adjustment and "Loudness" button, it sounds almost perfect (although the "Loudness" Setting kills a bit of the clarity). 
Again, TBH, i wish i didn't have to use the adjustments on the pioneer, and also the MIDS have to be a bit accentuated in the Creative equalizer, but the still unsolvable problem is the BASS. Even with the AMP's bass adjustment, it only enhances one portion of the bass, but not all of it.
My old Audigy2 had superb base, i don't understand what's wrong with the X-Fi.. Messing with the equalizer in the Creative Console does help a little bit.. but still.. i shouldn't have to do that, and it's still not perfect.
Besides, when i switch to Bit-Matched Playback, i loose the equalizer.. so i'm back to square one.
 
Did the OPA1602AID (or other opamps) help at all with the base??
 
(btw, i read somewhere that the Elite Pro supplies the Opamps with +/-12V .. i know the other X-FI's supply just 5V if i'm not mistaken. ..Just a thought.)
 
I'm also wondering if the opamp replacement only acts as a "hardware equalizer", and just changes some of the frequency levels (like you could simply achieve using the Creative software equalizer), and not really "creating" any more clarity than the X-Fi already had. Do you know if anyone measured the audio outputs or distortion before and after changing any opamps??
 
Sorry if i keep bombarding you with questions Rama, but after asking around on an electronics forum, my head started spinning after everyone criticized the idea so heavily and saying that the opamp and the circuitry around it are designed for each other, and changing it will only introduce distortion to the sound (maybe like an equalizer does), or even worse.. I actually had to leave the forum, that's how bad the discussion got..
Yes, i saw that the newer cards have swappable opamps.. and other high end audio equipment also have their opamps on sockets.. That's mainly the reason that keeps me engaged in this mod
 
Although i've got more than decent soldering skills, i would really like to be sure that the improvements are real (not something that you could just do with an equalizer), and are perceivable enough... The card didn't cost me much (~50$) but i may not be able to source another card as cheep and in such great condition as i got this one   
 
- Also, related to the main power CAP; do you know if it's connected in parallel? or in series? 
(Because from the little bit of electronics that i know; i know that it's not recommended to change a series CAP with another one of a different resistance, because the circuitry around it depends on the cap to have that specific resistance.. it was built with it in mind.)
So again, sorry for taking up your time Rama, but i just need to make sure of a few things.  
 
(later edit)
P.S., did you happen to test the AD8599 OpAmp?