TDK BA200 - Impressions and Appreciation Thread

post #106 of 199

1/5/12 at 9:08am

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I guess someone can loan a pair to Tyll for measurement.

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post #107 of 199

1/6/12 at 6:17pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes

Interesting. It would be extremely rare for the dc resistance to measure higher than it's impedance but as you pointed out, not impossible so also not absolute proof.

^This might have to do with the component inside the large plug at the y split....I read that it is what allows the BA200 to adjust to different sources/amps for controlled unexagerated bass response....anyone want to cut that open to find out....I think I will take them at their word. I have to run amp about 6-8 notches higher than my TF 10/32ohm and RE272/20ohm.

Also, I have tried the BA200 with Hifiman biflange tips.....getting good results....bass is extended and has more impact, and the treble is brought forward more...best synergy so far with the Hifiman biflange. YMMV.

Edited by cute - 1/6/12 at 6:18pm

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post #108 of 199

1/6/12 at 7:10pm

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Yes, that's why I brought up the issue; both the US and Japanese websites claim that it has a circuit that stabilizes impedance phase shifts with BAs. I do believe its effect is limited though, as the BA200 does seem to change with respect to amping.

There will come a time when I get curious enough to cut that hunk of plastic open (during a recable perhaps? I'm not really hot about these flat cables anymore.) but for the time being, I'm just going to shut all my curiosities away and enjoy the BA200's sound, even if it does seem to perform outside its stated specs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute

^This might have to do with the component inside the large plug at the y split....I read that it is what allows the BA200 to adjust to different sources/amps for controlled unexagerated bass response....anyone want to cut that open to find out....I think I will take them at their word. I have to run amp about 6-8 notches higher than my TF 10/32ohm and RE272/20ohm.

Also, I have tried the BA200 with Hifiman biflange tips.....getting good results....bass is extended and has more impact, and the treble is brought forward more...best synergy so far with the Hifiman biflange. YMMV.

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post #109 of 199

1/6/12 at 7:29pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tomscy2000

Yes, that's why I brought up the issue; both the US and Japanese websites claim that it has a circuit that stabilizes impedance phase shifts with BAs. I do believe its effect is limited though, as the BA200 does seem to change with respect to amping.

There will come a time when I get curious enough to cut that hunk of plastic open (during a recable perhaps? I'm not really hot about these flat cables anymore.) but for the time being, I'm just going to shut all my curiosities away and enjoy the BA200's sound, even if it does seem to perform outside its stated specs.

Well in my experience I have found a difference going from one source to another, and from one amp to another, especially when the amps have a different output impedance. I have had them sound quite different while A/Bing several sources and then going back to the original listening mode. I could be more specific but I can't take the time right now. But esentially, I get the volume adjusted for one, I switch to another amp, and come back to the first and the volume changes three or more notches on the HP amp. Then after listening to the same song repeatedly, I somtimes need to adjust the volume again to attain the same level. iPod, E11 amp, home tube amp, clip zip, etc, etc. So I think that claim does do something with impedance....somehow....I would like to know more....just sayin what I hear!

TDK stated this is a new technology that no other IEM has....I take them at their word.....recabling just might ruin a good IEM.

Edited by cute - 1/6/12 at 7:40pm

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post #110 of 199

1/6/12 at 7:47pm

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Well, if it is true, it should be similar to other inline tech out there... my guess is that it approximates the phase response of the drivers, and counteracts it with a nested RC circuit.

If I do recable, it'll be below the Y-split... the flat cables work well at the ears, but not below that, and I don't like the short cable scheme. I'd still have to at least take the cover off the Y-split to do a recable for that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute

TDK stated this is a new technology that no other IEM has....I take them at their word.....recabling just might ruin a good IEM.

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post #111 of 199

1/6/12 at 7:51pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tomscy2000

Well, if it is true, it should be similar to other inline tech out there... my guess is that it approximates the phase response of the drivers, and counteracts it with a nested RC circuit.

If I do recable, it'll be below the Y-split... the flat cables work well at the ears, but not below that, and I don't like the short cable scheme. I'd still have to at least take the cover off the Y-split to do a recable for that...

Short cable is great for the many people with Sansa Clip, Clip+, Clip Zip....there a millions maybe billions of those. Now that I have the bilflange tips I am very happy, they work with all of my gears, as I believe they were designed!

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post #112 of 199

1/6/12 at 11:14pm

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BTW, how did you get the Hifiman biflanges to fit? With expanders? I tried out the Sony hybrids with expanders and they didn't sound good at all, unfortunately. At any rate, I don't have any Hifiman products, so I can't try them... too bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute

Short cable is great for the many people with Sansa Clip, Clip+, Clip Zip....there a millions maybe billions of those. Now that I have the bilflange tips I am very happy, they work with all of my gears, as I believe they were designed!

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post #113 of 199

1/7/12 at 1:43am

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How frustrating! I really want to try these out, but no one sells them! The only ones I've managed to find on eBay are ridiculously overpriced.

Does that shop in Taiwan ship overseas? :)

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post #114 of 199

1/7/12 at 1:52am

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haha I have no idea, probably not. but seriously, i just posted the price i got it for to make you guys jealous; i don't think it's available at the price anywhere. i think the owner might've gotten it mixed up with another product lol. nevertheless, most stores here are selling it around $160 USD. TDK seems to be pricing it lower here (Philip does too, not sure why, because most other brands cost more here), as the MSRP here exchanges to only about $185 at most. I'd say you wouldn't be disappointed even if you had to pay $200 and change for it... but good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kloan

How frustrating! I really want to try these out, but no one sells them! The only ones I've managed to find on eBay are ridiculously overpriced. Does that shop in Taiwan ship overseas? :)

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post #115 of 199

1/8/12 at 3:02am

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I went on a tip comparison adventure:

For the most detail-oriented and brightest sound, the included double-flange tips (I use the smaller set, can't get a proper seal with the larger ones) with a deep insertion fit are best. You can clearly hear the transition from the warmer low driver to the brighter high driver. I actually quite like the sound presentation of these tips, as the soundstage isn't lacking despite the deeper fit, and has the more analytical sound that I'm used to. Cymbal crashes will sound correct and not be attenuated, as they can get with the Comply tips. Bass response is also the strongest and most well-textured. Sibilants are a little more pronounced with these tips, but the BA200 is tuned to be non-sibilant anyway, so it's not really a real issue. However, the flange edges are hard, and will cut into the skin of your ear canal after a while. They're also difficult to remove because of that, as those flanges act like barbs that dig into the ear canal and refuse to come out.

For the best comfort and most pleasant, laid back sound presentation, the Comply Ts-100 are the best. However, everything is smoothed over and the highs are a bit knocked down and the far tuning of the highs is accentuated. Sibilance is non-existent with these tips, and the low/high transition is just about unnoticeable. Thus, everything has a slightly warm tonality to it. Shure Olive tips behave similarly, but overall the Ts-100 is better with respect to sound, presentation, comfort, and even ease of use, since the Ts-100 are designed not to need squishing every single time you put them in.

Sony hybrid tips, which normally work well for many applications, are terrible with the BA200. I tried the medium size (green) with both Monster red expanders and the cores of an old set of Shure Olives, and both times, the hybrid tips made the sound muddy. I had some similar hybrid core tips that came with my DBA-02, but they didn't seem to seal in my ears correctly, and wasn't able to test their performance.

With those Shure Olive cores, I began testing out my huge set of random, generic silicone tips. They seemed to all produce a similar sound, whether it was a triple flange, double flange, or single flange. They all warmed up the upper mids, making the low/high transition less apparent (but still there, if you listen carefully). Bass response varied with each type of tip and the softness of silicone used. Flimsier silicone seemed to elicit less of a bass response and warble the details. It seems like harder silicone is more suitable for the BA200. Some of the bi-flange tips seemed to push the highs forward a little, but none were as impressive as the included bi-flange tips with regard to clarity and detail. Anyway, none of the tips particularly impressed me.

Klipsch tips were very comfortable, but they seemed to respond the same way as all the soft silicone tips I described above. I quickly stopped listening to music with them on.

So, it looks like TDK did a very good job in selecting the right type of tips to bundle with the BA200. The bi-flange tips are clearly the most detailed and neutral-sounding tips, while the Complys are the most relaxed and smoothed, making the selection that TDK gives us almost diametrically opposed to each other. The bi-flanges optimizes the BA200's technical performance, while the Complys optimize their presentation and comfort. It's too bad the bi-flange tips can get so uncomfortable over time; otherwise, they really make the BA200 sound very impressive.

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post #116 of 199

1/8/12 at 6:33am

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I can agree with what you said about tips on the BA200, but what you didn't mention in the equation is that the source can also affect the sound. I was using mine with iPod Classic 7th Generation, and my Fiio E11 amplifier, and the sound with the Ts100's were not laid back as you described. Listening directly from my home gears and from my Sansa Clip Zip, which both produce a warmer sound, I would agree that the Comply Ts100 do sound smoother and without the sparkle in the highs that I got from the iPod. I returned my iPod to Best Buy because the the brighter sound signature. The new iPods use Cirrus Logic DAC, where the iPod I had previously used Wolfson DAC, which did sound more rich and had a warmer signature than iPod 6th & 7th Gen. I now have a different portable source, Sansa Fuze, and I am using Hifiman double flange tips fitted on the BA200 with cores from some old Etymotic foam tips. The Hifiman tips have a longer tube, and the tips have an open inside diameter like the Ts100. For me the supplied double flange tips have too small of an opening that resonates sound a little, and they do not sound as open as the Hifiman tips. The Hifiman tips pretty much do for me what the BA200 double flange are doing for you, for me the Hifiman double flange do make the BA200 very very good. IMO tips have to be matched to source, individual fit/ears, etc, what works for one may work for others, each has to decide by listeing to decide what they like, no "one size fits all" mentality.

I am also finding that the BA200 likes amping, much like the RE262. I can't believe the BA200 are rated at 35ohm impedance. I think they are more like 35ohm - 100ohm, closer to 100ohm. They act much like my Hifiman RE262 which are 100ohm. When I compare the two they are very close in volume level A/B'd with the same test tracks. When I A/B with my TF 10, I need to turn the volume on the amp down, and then back up for the BA200, about 4 - 6 increments with my home gears. With my E11 I use high gain setting for both BA200 and RE262, low gain for TF 10, with additional volume settings depending on which IEM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomscy2000

I went on a tip comparison adventure:

For the most detail-oriented and brightest sound, the included double-flange tips (I use the smaller set, can't get a proper seal with the larger ones) with a deep insertion fit are best. You can clearly hear the transition from the warmer low driver to the brighter high driver. I actually quite like the sound presentation of these tips, as the soundstage isn't lacking despite the deeper fit, and has the more analytical sound that I'm used to. Cymbal crashes will sound correct and not be attenuated, as they can get with the Comply tips. Bass response is also the strongest and most well-textured. Sibilants are a little more pronounced with these tips, but the BA200 is tuned to be non-sibilant anyway, so it's not really a real issue. However, the flange edges are hard, and will cut into the skin of your ear canal after a while. They're also difficult to remove because of that, as those flanges act like barbs that dig into the ear canal and refuse to come out.

For the best comfort and most pleasant, laid back sound presentation, the Comply Ts-100 are the best. However, everything is smoothed over and the highs are a bit knocked down and the far tuning of the highs is accentuated. Sibilance is non-existent with these tips, and the low/high transition is just about unnoticeable. Thus, everything has a slightly warm tonality to it. Shure Olive tips behave similarly, but overall the Ts-100 is better with respect to sound, presentation, comfort, and even ease of use, since the Ts-100 are designed not to need squishing every single time you put them in.

Sony hybrid tips, which normally work well for many applications, are terrible with the BA200. I tried the medium size (green) with both Monster red expanders and the cores of an old set of Shure Olives, and both times, the hybrid tips made the sound muddy. I had some similar hybrid core tips that came with my DBA-02, but they didn't seem to seal in my ears correctly, and wasn't able to test their performance.

With those Shure Olive cores, I began testing out my huge set of random, generic silicone tips. They seemed to all produce a similar sound, whether it was a triple flange, double flange, or single flange. They all warmed up the upper mids, making the low/high transition less apparent (but still there, if you listen carefully). Bass response varied with each type of tip and the softness of silicone used. Flimsier silicone seemed to elicit less of a bass response and warble the details. It seems like harder silicone is more suitable for the BA200. Some of the bi-flange tips seemed to push the highs forward a little, but none were as impressive as the included bi-flange tips with regard to clarity and detail. Anyway, none of the tips particularly impressed me.

Klipsch tips were very comfortable, but they seemed to respond the same way as all the soft silicone tips I described above. I quickly stopped listening to music with them on.

So, it looks like TDK did a very good job in selecting the right type of tips to bundle with the BA200. The bi-flange tips are clearly the most detailed and neutral-sounding tips, while the Complys are the most relaxed and smoothed, making the selection that TDK gives us almost diametrically opposed to each other. The bi-flanges optimizes the BA200's technical performance, while the Complys optimize their presentation and comfort. It's too bad the bi-flange tips can get so uncomfortable over time; otherwise, they really make the BA200 sound very impressive.

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post #117 of 199

1/8/12 at 11:36pm

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Well, the post was supposed to only address the sound relative to different tips, so the source really is taken out of the equation. Even though I used the same source for each test, it doesn't matter here. I just wanted to say that the bi-flanges gave the most detail-oriented sound, while the foams gave the best presentation of the sound while relaxing a bit on detailing. There's no question the BA200 sounds 'colder' with the bi-flange silicone tips than with the foam tips or any other silicone tips I tried. I wish the bi-flange tips weren't as uncomfortable; otherwise, they fit my listening preferences more with respect to critical listening. The BA200, whether with Ts-100 or Tx-100, sounds ultra smooth, and that's great for regular enjoyment.

I'll try to do a comparison of different sources causing different effects on the sound when I have the time, and when I can ascertain what sources have how much output impedance, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute

I can agree with what you said about tips on the BA200, but what you didn't mention in the equation is that the source can also affect the sound.

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post #118 of 199

1/10/12 at 8:48am

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I have done more experimenting with tips for the BA200. I use the core from Etymotic Foam Tips for ER-6, ER6-14F. This allow a vast array of tips to be used on the BA200....I have quite a few sets of tips for experimentation. The big hit for me were TF 10 medium silicone tips....they are a perfect fit...do not push them all the way on the nozzle....there should be about an 1/8 tp 3/16" recess from the end of the tip to the nozzle. The sound is phenominal from all of my sources...bass is still there clear/tight/deep, mids are unchanged pretty much, and the highs...ahhhhh the highs are there in their full sparkle and clarity.

This is really worth a try....the best sound yet on the BA200!