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Do cables "burn in"? - Page 3

post #31 of 138

Dielectric

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 

dielectric is an electrical insulator that can be polarized by an applied electric field. When a dielectric is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material as they do in a conductor, but only slightly shift from their average equilibrium positions causing dielectric polarization. Because of dielectric polarization, positive charges are displaced toward the field and negative charges shift in the opposite direction. This creates an internal electric field which reduces the overall field within the dielectric itself.[1] If a dielectric is composed of weakly bonded molecules, those molecules not only become polarized, but also reorient so that their symmetry axis aligns to the field.[1]

post #32 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstrain View Post



That sort of takes away from the whole, quantifiable, verifiable, objective results aspect of any real test... neh? 

 

But since listening is a mostly subjective experience, maybe that's a non-issue. If it sounds better to you... who am I to say it's BS.

 

But short answer seems to be, No. Cables do not "burn in" or change the sound signature over time (barring damage or excessive oxidation).


It doesn't take away. It's called "trained ears".  If you have some dumb schmuck to hear the audio between generic and high-perf cable he wouldn't be able to hear the difference because he doesn't know what to look for.  Plus his ear drum performance is different than our beautiful member Lenni.  Cables make huge difference in sound, especially with analog interconnects.  The difference is still noticeable with USB interconnects as well.  "neh?" my butt.

post #33 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post


It doesn't take away. It's called "trained ears".  If you have some dumb schmuck to hear the audio between generic and high-perf cable he wouldn't be able to hear the difference because he doesn't know what to look for.  Plus his ear drum performance is different than our beautiful member Lenni.  Cables make huge difference in sound, especially with analog interconnects.  The difference is still noticeable with USB interconnects as well.  "neh?" my butt.

 

I'd be willing to let you have all the trained ears you want in a blind test. Lenni was discussing using a known system known cable combination in the testing - my only point was that it needs to be somehow objective. Either via measurements, or a DBT or other method that mitigates some of the subjective biases we are all subject to. 

 

But this is not a discussion on whether cables affect sound. I've said my piece on that in the Sound Science subforum. This is a discussion whether a cable can burn in and affect sound. And there, the overwhelming evidence and electrical theory says no. It does not and can not. A dielectric does have an effect on a cable, in that it can affect capacitance, and the RLC of a given cable is a fundamental factor in whether and how it works in a given circuit. But there is nothing to suggest that changes in the alignment of electrons, or polarization in a dielectric over time will have any changing effect on the electrical signal or those RLC values as a result of burn in.  And since RLC are the only factors in the "sound" of a given cable, if those do not change via burn in, neither will the "sound" of the cable. 


Edited by liamstrain - 8/10/12 at 9:33am
post #34 of 138

Well, my Canare L-2T2S has changed already and I do trust my ears ; )

post #35 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by miow View Post

Well, my Canare L-2T2S has changed already and I do trust my ears ; )

 

 

More power to you. I'm not going to try to tell you that you don't hear what you think you hear... but I will need more than your testimony (objective testing, measurements, a good testable theory so we can experiment) - before I overturn our contemporary understanding of electricity and conductive materials.  

 

But as always, this is meant to be a debate free forum. So I'll have to leave it at that. :)

post #36 of 138

just gotten my diy silver rca....first hour was a "huh" ..kinda mute cotton wool-ed. i was frankly disappointed.

And then magically the bass tightened..the highs bloomed, piano n guitar took on an airy clarity..heaven.

 

this is pure magic...nothing to to with science. dun discuss...i am writing just for bigpoppa. beerchug.gif

post #37 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

just gotten my diy silver rca....first hour was a "huh" ..kinda mute cotton wool-ed. i was frankly disappointed.
And then magically the bass tightened..the highs bloomed, piano n guitar took on an airy clarity..heaven.

this is pure magic...nothing to to with science. dun discuss...i am writing just for bigpoppa. beerchug.gif
Very nice. Im a fan of silver cables. my diys are on my woo.
post #38 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

just gotten my diy silver rca....first hour was a "huh" ..kinda mute cotton wool-ed. i was frankly disappointed.

And then magically the bass tightened..the highs bloomed, piano n guitar took on an airy clarity..heaven.

 

this is pure magic...nothing to to with science. dun discuss...i am writing just for bigpoppa. beerchug.gif

 

beerchug.gif

post #39 of 138

I once accidentally put cables in the oven and then turned on the oven weeks later.  They burned in alright.

HeadAmp Audio Electronics - home of the Pico and Gilmore amps.  Now with Audeze, Fostex, HiFiMAN, Sennheiser, and STAX.
Find us at www.HeadAmp.com

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post #40 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by justin w. View Post

I once accidentally put cables in the oven and then turned on the oven weeks later.  They burned in alright.


Naw, they just roasted. They are burned now tongue.gif


Sent from an iPod touch with TapaTalk... Autocorrect may alter the meaning of this message tongue.gif
post #41 of 138

LOLblink.gif...

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin w. View Post

I once accidentally put cables in the oven and then turned on the oven weeks later.  They burned in alright.

post #42 of 138

Notice bass was bloomy when i first gotten my twags.

After some time, it tighten up.

post #43 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by justin w. View Post

I once accidentally put cables in the oven and then turned on the oven weeks later.  They burned in alright.

 

Accidentally put cables in the oven?

 

Reminds me of the old joke.

 

So I was standing on the street using my knife to eat an apple. A friend of mine came running around the corner, bumped into me and I accidentally stabbed him.

 

Nine times.

 

In the back.

 

biggrin.gif

 

And then there was the time some years ago I had a customer EMail me asking if it would be ok if he put them on his cable cooker. I asked him if it was the Audio Dharma Cable Cooker. He said it was. Alan Kafton, maker of the Audio Dharma Cable Cooker was a dear friend of mine so I asked the customer if he'd be willing to help me play a little prank on him.

 

He agreed.

 

So I made up a short length of cable, soaked it with lighter fluid and took a match to it. I took a couple of photos of the charred remains and sent them to the customer who in turn included them in an EMail he sent Alan telling him that he'd just bought these cables from me, put them on his Cable Cooker, left the house for about an hour and when he came back, this is what he found and what was he going to do about it?

 

Poor Alan never knew what hit him. very_evil_smiley.gif

 

se

post #44 of 138

have to say my first reaction to Lorspeaker's impression (post #49) was one of slightly exaggeration, but if that's what people experience I sure keep an open mind to it. 

 
can't say I've experienced cables burn-in. simply because I'm not too concerned about it. I haven't read, or search much info on it either. my pesonal feeling is that cables go through a period of adjustment (or settle-in) into the system. I also wonder if the cables were moved to a new different system they would to go through the whole "burn-in" process again. I would think so.
 
I usually plug the new cables in place and leave them for at least a few days, then might swap with the former ones and do the same. I find this to be more effective at hearing differences, if any, than quick abx's. simply because first impressions usually  don't tell the whole story. after, the cables "I feel" I enjoy the sound most stay in - regardeless of brand, color, or price.
post #45 of 138

 I'm still on the fence on whether cables burn-in or not - I'm currently in a state of contemplation over my new-ish Shunyata Research Cobra.

 

 What I find fascinating is that Shunyata themselves state that even without this device below eg, designed to run them in via

 domestic electrical devices in the home - the customer should run them in on the rig for approx. 100 hours before they

 sound their best.

 

 700

 

 Hmm - 5 time grammy winner Rick Rubin appears to be a fan of Shunyata - wonder if he also believes in burn-in smile.gif

 

 Not to get carried away but there are some serious heavy hitters who are happy to have their names listed as users & fans :-

 

 Audio: Audio Research, ART Audio, Balanced Audio Technology, Bel Canto Designs, Edge Electronics,

Grand Prix Audio,Halcro, Immedia, Jeff Rowland Design Group, JM Lab, Lamm Industries, Lumen White,

McCormack Audio, Meridian America,

Musical Fidelity, Simaudio, Tenor Audio, Verity Audio, VTL, Wilson Audio, Wisdom Audio

 

Recording: Sony Music (Japan), Sony Music (New York), Lucasfilm Sky Walker Ranch,

Philips’ Crest National Studios, Astoria Studio, Lout Out Sound Studios, Memory Technology, Lacquer Channel,

Mastering: Doug Sax and James Guthrie, Peter McGrath, Rick Rubin,

Tom Durack, Ken Takeshi, John B. Anthony Company, AF Associates

 

I highlighted those three in particular for one very important reason - these guys don't have a budget and they

don't care about that $20,000 or $35,000 'sweetner' cheque in the mail as far as 'bought endorsements' go

 

Nope - they can use what ever they want on this planet.


Edited by Gwarmi - 8/11/12 at 5:46pm
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