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post #1921 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Really sorry to hear that. 

 

How did it happen? Any prior "mishaps" or just "out of the blue"? If it was the latter, double check that the arm and particularly its antiskating  is functioning properly, It can happen that arm is "sticking" at one point, antiskating springs can get weakened with age, etc. RB200 is  high quality enough this to be unlikely, but it is a possibility.

I think it may have just been getting too old and the cement used to mate the needle to the stylus let go, was playing a record and then suddenly RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPT

 

Anti skate seems to be working although it can't be changed easily as the belt is broken. There's a few fixes around for that but I'm using it as an excuse to change the tonearm to an RB250 ;)

 

Incidentally... If anyone wants to buy an R200 tonearm...


Edited by Jesterphile - 7/13/13 at 10:15pm

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post #1922 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eee Pee View Post

Impressive.  Both it, and your ability to get those photos.

I agree for the stylus.

 

By now I did learn how to get even better pics using the same USB microscope. I will post the photos of worn out styli, both those made on scanning electron microscope and my attempts to get positive proof that a stylus is definitely past the point of safe use with USB microscope. It drove me nuts that I could hear that jarring distortions of a worn out stylus and confirm it using test record and an oscilloscope, yet on optical microscopes at my disposal there was no visibly positive confirmation the stylus has deteriorated beyond safe limit.

 

With optical microscope, it is very much the lighting. Colours can vary wildly either to cantilever material, geometry/polish/translucency of the diamond, as well as angle(s) of the lighting. Getting the lighting to highlight any particular spot on the diamond stylus itself is tricky, but is the only way to show features that are in real life 3D in for all practical purposes 2D realm of USB microscope. Focus is extremely limited - something on the order of 10 - 20 micrometers at the highest 320x magnification of my microscope, everything outside that range is blurred to less or more extent.

 

Any such photos are prone to "oopses" - particularly those last bids to get an even sharper image. Due to the rarity of Garrott Brothers Micro Scanner, I will not make another photo session in order to take advantage of the last lighting skills learned.

 

@everybody: please take time to read carefully the Garrott Brothers Remembered link. Highest quality perfectly aligned stylus was only the starting point for Garrott. Exactly what other secret measures to improve everything else were used may never be known, but a proper functioning Garrott Brothers cartridge certainly is something that is extremely unlikely to dissapoint. 


Edited by analogsurviver - 7/13/13 at 10:21pm
post #1923 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterphile View Post

I think it may have just been getting too old and the cement used to mate the needle to the stylus let go, was playing a record and then suddenly RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPT

 

Anti skate seems to be working although it can't be changed easily as the belt is broken. There's a few fixes around for that but I'm using it as an excuse to change the tonearm to an RB250 ;)

 

Incidentally... If anyone wants to buy an R200 tonearm...

Yes, cement can let go like this, given the age.

 

I forgot how RB200 implements antiskating, all I knew it was somewhat different from the usual.

If the broken belt is making it hard to change the setting, it may well be that antiskating was set too high or too low for this particular setting and it could have accelerated the stylus failure.

 

RB250 is a MUCH better arm.

post #1924 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Yes, cement can let go like this, given the age.

 

I forgot how RB200 implements antiskating, all I knew it was somewhat different from the usual.

If the broken belt is making it hard to change the setting, it may well be that antiskating was set too high or too low for this particular setting and it could have accelerated the stylus failure.

 

RB250 is a MUCH better arm.

 

I've found an RB250 w/ underslung counterweight and VAF adjustment and also an RB300 w/ Incognito Wiring upgrade... I'm leaning towards the RB300 what do you reckon?


Edited by Jesterphile - 7/14/13 at 12:45am
post #1925 of 3409

I think the RB250 with the upgrades will outperform the stock RB300. Then again, I haven't heard the Incognito rewired RB300, for what it's worth.

post #1926 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipilot227 View Post

I think the RB250 with the upgrades will outperform the stock RB300. Then again, I haven't heard the Incognito rewired RB300, for what it's worth.

I was more thinking along the lines of wiring upgrade is more expensive than the counterweight so if I got the RB300 and a new counterweight I may be better off. I've also heard the RB300 is easier to mod?

post #1927 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterphile View Post

 

I've found an RB250 w/ underslung counterweight and VAF adjustment and also an RB300 w/ Incognito Wiring upgrade... I'm leaning towards the RB300 what do you reckon?

I have very limited experience with Rega. And I think wiring in tonearms is WAY overrated. I have seen many arms made actually worse after the owner insisted on wire change - only to learn the hard way some arms just can not be rebuilt to the original high standard as far as bearing adjustment is concerned. If the tonearm does not perform mechanically well in the first place, the point of better wiring is moot, to stay polite about it. Lots of such "upgraded" arms end up for sale ...

 

Underslung counterweight is a definite plus, as is VTA on the fly, if that is what you meant with VAF. Bearings should be on paper the difference between 250 and 300, how much it does matter in practice and the exact sample you will get is hard/impossible to predict. I have not heard 300/Ingognito and can not comment how it sounds compared to regular 300.

 

One thing - if you are going to repair the 20B, is that not a "headshell" type cartridge, or that is normal 1/2 " mount cart plugged into proprietary Dynavector adapter to IEC socket ? You can not use "headshell IEC" type cartridge with Rega 250/higher at all.

post #1928 of 3409
If I can get the dynavector repaired I will be putting it on my JVC TT so the headshell issue doesn't matter smily_headphones1.gif

I think I'll go for the RB250. You made a good point regarding ruining the mechanical function when DIYing the cable swap and seeing as I can't inspect the arm Id prefer not to take the chance.
post #1929 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterphile View Post

If I can get the dynavector repaired I will be putting it on my JVC TT so the headshell issue doesn't matter smily_headphones1.gif

I think I'll go for the RB250. You made a good point regarding ruining the mechanical function when DIYing the cable swap and seeing as I can't inspect the arm Id prefer not to take the chance.

Wise decision(s).L3000.gif

 

We have a saying: Better a sparrow in hand than a pidgeon on the roof.

 

How does your JVC compare to REGA ? I am learning some better JVCs must have been formidable machines, and not only TOTL never exported outside Japan models. Never worked with any JVC so far, any listening done under unknown conditions decades ago, so I am curious...

post #1930 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Wise decision(s).L3000.gif

 

We have a saying: Better a sparrow in hand than a pidgeon on the roof.

 

How does your JVC compare to REGA ? I am learning some better JVCs must have been formidable machines, and not only TOTL never exported outside Japan models. Never worked with any JVC so far, any listening done under unknown conditions decades ago, so I am curious...

 

The old JVC's are great. I have a QL-Y3F which is similar to a Denon DL-47F.

 

I would say the QL-Y3F is in a different league compared to the Rega

post #1931 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterphile View Post

 

The old JVC's are great. I have a QL-Y3F which is similar to a Denon DL-47F.

 

I would say the QL-Y3F is in a different league compared to the Rega

It does seem  the name of the game is finding good Japanese vintage gear made well with lots of innovation old enough to escape the dreaded black placic box syndrome of the mid 80s. And JVCs that roughly fit this description are obviously much more easily found in outback of Oz than in Europe - very rarely does one see even mid, let alone better JVC TTs for sale in Europe. Black Plastic Box galore...

 

Astonishingly, there is today one QL-Y3F on French ebay - for some reason, France seems to be the JVC fort in Europe. If it has to cross oceans, the resulting end price is usually too high.

 

So - how would you compare the sound of your Rega and JVC, what argument in sound would you use to convience a Rega fanboy to at least audition a good JVC? Please note that I do not want to start yet another belt vs direct drive war or anything, just interested in your long term experience with both.

post #1932 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

It does seem  the name of the game is finding good Japanese vintage gear made well with lots of innovation old enough to escape the dreaded black placic box syndrome of the mid 80s. And JVCs that roughly fit this description are obviously much more easily found in outback of Oz than in Europe - very rarely does one see even mid, let alone better JVC TTs for sale in Europe. Black Plastic Box galore...

Astonishingly, there is today one QL-Y3F on French ebay - for some reason, France seems to be the JVC fort in Europe. If it has to cross oceans, the resulting end price is usually too high.

So - how would you compare the sound of your Rega and JVC, what argument in sound would you use to convience a Rega fanboy to at least audition a good JVC? Please note that I do not want to start yet another belt vs direct drive war or anything, just interested in your long term experience with both.

The JVC has sentimental value so it may cloud my judgement. But, I find it to be more refined and a bit warmer than the Rega... The JVC is very well controlled in terms of speed with the quartz lock etc. I haven't had much time with the Rega yet though so when I get both running I will do a comparison with the same cartridge.
post #1933 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterphile View Post


The JVC has sentimental value so it may cloud my judgement. But, I find it to be more refined and a bit warmer than the Rega... The JVC is very well controlled in terms of speed with the quartz lock etc. I haven't had much time with the Rega yet though so when I get both running I will do a comparison with the same cartridge.

Fair enough. I am looking forward to your impressions. 

 

The fairest comparisons of this kind is the use of the same type of cartridge on both tables using the single replaceable stylus on both. This reduces sample to sample variations in cartridge/styli to the practical minimum. 

post #1934 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterphile View Post

 

I've found an RB250 w/ underslung counterweight and VAF adjustment and also an RB300 w/ Incognito Wiring upgrade... I'm leaning towards the RB300 what do you reckon?

My $0.20...

1. The Rega re-wire IS overrated, in spite of the fact that the RB250 comes with some unimpressive looking wires. I also like that the OEM Rega wiring is grounded to the tonearm so no ground wire.

2. A modified RB250 (basically upgrade the endstub/counterweight) can outperform an stock RB300. has to do with the bearing assembly and the way anti-skating is managed on the RB300.

3. The VTA is not as critical with Rega tonearms (according to Gandy), unless you use an especially tall/short cartridge or modify the platter thickness. But the on the fly VTA is great to have in case you do want to mess around.

 

What brand is the upgraded counterweight on the RB250?

post #1935 of 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

My $0.20...
1. The Rega re-wire IS overrated, in spite of the fact that the RB250 comes with some unimpressive looking wires. I also like that the OEM Rega wiring is grounded to the tonearm so no ground wire.
2. A modified RB250 (basically upgrade the endstub/counterweight) can outperform an stock RB300. has to do with the bearing assembly and the way anti-skating is managed on the RB300.
3. The VTA is not as critical with Rega tonearms (according to Gandy), unless you use an especially tall/short cartridge or modify the platter thickness. But the on the fly VTA is great to have in case you do want to mess around.

What brand is the upgraded counterweight on the RB250?

I believe it is the CCM from Pete riggle
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