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inks said:

@music. I actually have heard the EX1000s briefly and I would say that they are my favorite universal yet, 

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That's terrible news - you must either have a hearing problem or been influenced by hundreds of EX1000 fanboys.
 
 
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inks said:

... but the price is ridiculous at the moment.
 

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I think they can be had for $360 in the US (at least in one place), though that might still be a rip-off considering all other flaws.
 

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music_4321 said:

though the EX1000 is not exactly $800 as stated on the ABI site.

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That was their MSRP, but I guess it indeed has to be adjusted for today's going prices.

^ And while you're at it, you may want to adjust the prices of the FX700 (currently showing $270), IE8 (currently showing $499), and perhaps mention the SM3 v2 in Europe - Earsonics being based in France - is $500 (currently showing $360).
 
EDIT: Actually the SM3 v1 in Europe was the same price, $500 + $43.50 shipping.

Well, I don't know if I'm quite ready to say that the EX600 is the best universal I'ver ever heard, but I can say it's up there. These are really the best $150 iems I have ever heard, blowing the the DDM out of the water. Now, what if I compared them to more expensive iems that cost more but I bought for about $100 or less (like the Custom 3  or HJE900)? I would say the EX600's overall cohesive sound is better than those two, but I like the mids and acoustic guitar better in the C3; I like the electric guitars better in the HJE900. EX600 win hands down in bass clarity and depth, and in highs. These are a great sounding universal for the price. Until the EX1000 comes down significantly in price, I'm pretty sure I would just be satisfied with listening to the universal for jazz and non-hard rock. Oh, and for in-house listening only.

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cliffroyroycole said:

Having just obtained the Brainwavz B2, I would have to say that they are competitive with the EX600s and overall more comfy and a better fit, hence more useful for a full-time IEM. They do not have a replaceable cable, etc. Anyway, that's just after listening for two days and my 600s have been gone for a week.

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If the B2 sounds like the DBA-02 it's not for me. I've read reviews where it was stated they sound the same. I didn't like the DBA-02 at all (except for the treble).

Thanks for the comparisons Anax, the compressed dynamic range of the 7550s is a deal-breaker for me. Now time to save up for the EX1000s....I like the cable of the 7550s a lot more though so I will probably wait till I can attain that and perhaps a price-drop. 

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music_4321 said:

 
That's terrible news - you must either have a hearing problem or been influenced by hundreds of EX1000 fanboys.
 
 
 
I think they can be had for $360 in the US (at least in one place), though that might still be a rip-off considering all other flaws.
 

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Do I detect the world famous 4321 sarcasm. It is condescending and completely disrespectful

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anaxilus said:

It was more compressed than both and more forward in presentation.  I believe 3602 said the same?  Everything is really more in your face but the 7550 sounds good.  It's smoother and clearer than the 600 I believe but it comes w/ that presentation.  
 

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Quote:

inks said:

Thanks for the comparisons Anax, the compressed dynamic range of the 7550s is a deal-breaker for me. Now time to save up for the EX1000s....I like the cable of the 7550s a lot more though so I will probably wait till I can attain that and perhaps a price-drop. 

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I have to say I was expecting Mr Anax to prefer the 7550s over both EX600 & EX1000, and "the compressed dynamic range" sounds a bit surprising to me considering the 7550s are, according to Sony, "ideally suited for musicians who listen to custom-crafted mixes of vocals and stage instrumentation during live performance, this model utilizes large calibre 16mm dynamic drivers to enable a wide dynamic range with clear and accurate sound reproduction"
 
Makes me very curious to try the 7550s and hear, amongst other things, their "more forward presentation".
 
 

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music_4321 said:

The EX1000s, to me, simply do a brilliant job here, like no other phone I've heard. 

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music_4321: How long did you allow your IE8s to burn in? Not saying they are equal to EX1000. But those cans don't really start to sing until min 300 hrs.
 
 

 
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music_4321 said:

 
OK, let's have a look at the 'unstoppable' EX1000 hype:
 
[...]
Now, with that out of the way, here's another song where the EX1000s, in my view, perform remarkably well. PLEASE excuse me if I don't use terms such as the T word, PRaT, micro details, speed, and other equally complex audio terms. The EX1000s, to me, simply do a brilliant job here, like no other phone I've heard. 

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Hardly "out of the way" ... perhaps a more roundabout approach to zeroing in on one's IEM prefs is more effective...
 
Your fave std headphone type: dynamic - ES - planar
Your fave std headphone brand: beyer - Senn - AKG - AT - Denon - Grado - Head-Direct - other
Your fave speaker type: Moving col (dynamic) - Electrostatic - Planar (e.g, Magnepan, Monsoon) - Horn
Your fave amp type: tube/valve - solid state -- hybrid
 
Your pref automobile type: SUV - Sports car - Small sedan - Full-sized sedan - Mini-van - Truck - Luxury sedan - Limo
 
Your fave city: New York - Los Ang. - San Fran. - Tokyo - Hong Kong - Bangalore - Paris - London - Sidney - Oslo - Berlin  - Vienna - etc.
 
[Add more categories here ...]
 
My prefs in bold.
 
The std. sentence/paragraph format of "reviewing" and evaluating is not effect at succinctly communicating important, just-the-facts-please info. As I noted prev., the ubiq. BMTS (bass-mids-treble-soundstage) format is repetitive ... and hence, unrevealing, "noisy", even counterproductive. 
With head-fi gear popularity increasing  -- IEMs and all -- at the exponential rate it has been, some better, preferably info-graphic, system is long overdue.
 
Maybe something like ...
 

Fig. 1: Sonic Boom’s circular quality plot. Shown is their finding for the Adcom GFA-555 II power amplifier.
- - - 
Quote (From STEREOPHILE, MAY 1993, pp 47-50):

Looking like a microphone’s polar response (see fig.1), the circle is segmented into wedges, with concentric rings indicating levels. Used in conjunction with a lengthy explanatory breakdown of the categories, the graph creates what the magazine calls “Sound Shapes,” with examples to show what’s good and bad. I assume that any product achieving the largest possible perfect circle would be a perfect performer. Among the points on the outer perimeter are “Presence’ “Rhythmic Coherence,” “Tonal Palette,” “Intimacy,” “Spatial Coherence,” and “Resolution” as primaries, with inner markings for categories including “Weight,” “Dynamic Range,” “Staging,” “Decay,” and others. If used with care, it produces a cleverly realized picture of the performance, as fascinating as the overhead drawings of soundstage dimensions David Wilson used to produce when he was reviewing for The Abso!ute Sound. If Gregory can develop this further, he could be onto some thing much more useful when used in con junction with a review than conventional specifications have been in the past.

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.
 

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anaxilus said:

"RE262 strikes me as laid back..." A lot of folks call the IE8s "laid back", but of all the cans I own, it has the most drawing-one-into-the-music ability concurrent with being able to "disappear" as a viable transducing entity.

 

You are talking about 'transparency' and that has two definitions.  Disappearing from your ears and also allowing the true nature of the source to pass through w/o coloration.  

 

A note about "laid back". Maybe that's an HQ amp vs. unamped issue?? With a good amp, one can increase gain w/o making the sound harsh/distortingly loud. I always amp (+ xfeed) so "laid back" can come fwd a bit w/o negative or side effects.

 

'Laid back' has nothing to do w/ amping.  I've been using portable amps for a long time and have seven different ones on my desk as we speak.  You can't make a phone perform faster than it's capable.  Laid back doesn't mean recessed, it's the opposite of being 'PRaTy'.  A couple of people seem to have made this mistake as well.  You seem to be talking about using gain to improve the balance in you equal loudness contour.     

 

I'm not sure but I think we have a bit of lexical ambiguity here so I'm not quite sure how you are hearing things.

 

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Laid back to me has always meant what others hear/interpret as 'recessed' presence (mids) . I actually don't feel cans (or any gear FTM) that has the tradit. 'laid back' description, like some claim the IE8s (maybe other dyn, IEMs), are recessed -- they are spectrally balanced, but the whole 'stage is pushed back a bit because the range the human ear is most sens. to is "quieter". To my ear-brain system, anyway. Welcome to the world of psycho-acoustics. 
 
"Laid back doesn't mean recessed, it's the opposite of being 'PRaTy'. "
Huh??! We're definitely not on the same page...
 
""Laid back' has nothing to do w/ amping". What about tube amp vs. SS? In your re-def above or the tradit. def of 'laid back', tubes amps are laid back. IAC, & getting back to the context of the my orig. remark ... not to my ear-brain system. To wit: I can bring the 'stage closer to me in the IE8s with a good, clean amp, simply by increasing gain. With bad amps, one can't turn up w/o distortion being added.
See my Profile for amps list. I actually got tired of most commercial jobs, even after extensive mods I could not get decent sound. Tangent's Jung-based 'DIY' designs got things rolling. Finally, after years of hacking and tweaking, I got things sounding decent. To be fair, then, I'll say that some of my prev. remarks are based on my ad hoc set-ups and configs. But, for the sake of this disc., I did go back and test each IEM with a popular set-ups (e.g., HO on the T-51 DAP). And my opinions are unchanged.
 
No, I was not thinking about 'transparency' in either of your defs. (Hint: I would have used that term if that's what I meant). In fact, I have noted in prev. posts that the IE8s are underperformers in this attribute. 

Agree w/your last remark.
 

 
alphaman -- Here's a (serious) suggestion for you:
 
Have a look at the full-size headphones forum where most of the 'big boys' hang around. There you'll not only find people who have heard some of the most sophisticated gear you yourself have heard but very likely even some you haven't even heard of. There you'll be able to 'mingle' with those who use plenty of audio jargon, know the magazines & articles you quote/know about, and who sometimes even really know what they're talking about - you may even learn a thing or two. Or not. Some of those members used to be (more) active in the "Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors" forum. There's definitely been some dumbing down in the last couple of years round here very likely due to the ever increasing popularity of IEMs & portable headphones and the ever increasing 'popularity' of HF.
 
Perhaps even start a thread there and talk about your 'frustration' at what you've come across in the portable headphones/ IEMs forum. Plenty of those who frequent the full-size headphones forum also own portable phones/ IEMs. For all you know they may provide (much) more valuable information.

Tube amps are not all laid back either by my 'redefinition'.  Listen to a WA5 w/ the HD800 and tell me it's 'relaxed'.  How about a Cavalli Liquid Fire or Apex Peak?  Then what do you do w/ a SS amp that sounds like a tube?  Or are we talking only about OTL amps?
 
I think it's logically flawed to define 'Midrange recession' as 'laid back'.  I have never heard the HJE900, TF10, M50 or D7000 as being called 'laid back' and if I did it would sound counter-intuitive.  But hey, Shaq got 'Bling' in the dictionary so there's no accounting for taste.  One should say the Mids are 'laid back' or the Treble or Bass is 'laid back'.  But to restrict laid back to Mids is just odd.  We can play games w/ 'pushed back' (soundstage depth) and 'shelved' too while we're at it.  In neither of those cases would the terms be used w/o referring specifically to a particular range in FR.  
 
As for PRaT.  I do tend to see the term more tied into aspects related to speed and aggressiveness.  Some refer to a leading edge in the Treble as being associated w/ PRaT.  PRaT seems to be more associated w/ Rock and Metal (Grado) rather than a Jazz quartet (HD650) or classical symphony.  I definitely think more of Vernon Reid shredding a guitar than a Metronome on a Piano.  So would a classically trained Pianist who keeps perfect tempo be considered more 'PRaTy' than Green Day?  Hmm, depends how you see it I guess.
 
Anyway, it's all semantics and language is always at war with itself between ordained definitions and common vernacular.  As long we can communicate our understandings then we can work it out.
 
Put it this way, the Sony's don't sound slow or fast, relaxed or aggressive.  They sound just right.  The porridge in the middle.         

 
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music_4321 said:

OK, let's have a look at the 'unstoppable' EX1000 hype:
 
As far as I know, four HF'ers (james444, cn11, tuahogary & music_4321) have declared the EX1000 the best phone they've heard. Of the four, two of them often post on this thread, the other two hardly ever post these days. As far as I can remember - and this only from memory, so I'm sure I'm getting a couple of things wrong here - the following HF'ers have had some issues with the EX1000s:
 
-- cliffroyroycole -- liked the EX1000s but preferred the W4 & Sony 7550, not convinced by the EX1000's form factor.
--kunlun -- finds the Atrios have better bass extension, specially sub-bass - might still prefer the Atrios over the Sonys
--Anaxilus -- likes the EX1000s but has to find a way to 'circumvent' a rather nasty peak in the 5-7k region
--inks -- I get the impression he'd favour the FX700 over the EX1000s from his comments on the EX600s
--shotgunshane -- still having second thoughts on whether the Sony's bass is for him or ultimately not. Seems to love 2 others phones. I get the impression he may actually prefer the FX700s, perhaps even the W4s over the EX1000s?
-- i2ehan -- his favourite is the SM3, followed by the W4
--MaxwellDemon -- issues with harsh treble, ultimately not convinced by the EX1000s and sold them
--dfkt -- his favourite is the SM3 followed by at least 5 other IEMs before the EX1000s
--lelek45 -- finds the treble too harsh, seems to prefer at least one other phone

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My avatar usually reflects my FOTM, and currently, it's most certainly the EX1000's. While I wouldn't go as far as to say they're the absolute best universal I've heard to date, they're certainly up to par with my SM3 and W4, each of which I hold in equal regards. I say that simply because the Sony's aren't practical to my ears when outdoors, though while at home, they do nothing wrong IMO, and are just as competent as the W4/SM3.