[alpha421]

  What's been the consensus on SQ impact (benefit, harm?) on using molded ear sleeves vs the triple flange with the 4S?

 
Not only that, but I've never seen a picture of someone wearing custom sleeves where the housing and cable doesn't stick out of your ears like the infamous triplefi.10.  I must fall in the minority of owners using the foam gliders, but once the ear pieces are jammed in, I can't see any housing sticking out when looking in the mirror.  It's nice and sleek, abit uncomfortable for a few seconds. 
 
I had contacted Etymotic last year regarding the ER4S and custom sleeves with concern about the change in sound quality from what I'm hearing with my foam glider tips and deep insertion. They replied back with, "There is no guarantee that the same sound is preserved from using the foam glider tips to custom sleeves, the sleeves main point is first and foremost for comfort."

 

[luisdent]

  I had contacted Etymotic last year regarding the ER4S and custom sleeves with concern about the change in sound quality from what I'm hearing with my foam glider tips and deep insertion. They replied back with, "There is no guarantee that the same sound is preserved from using the foam glider tips to custom sleeves, the sleeves main point is first and foremost for comfort."

 
That is very true.  Buying $150 customs that sound horrible can leave a pretty nasty feeling in your stomach. Especially after retrying the molding and getting three different pairs made only to find they still sound bad.  Ugh.
 
 

 

[gnarlsagan]

It has very similar bass to the hf5.  But it's flatter overall with much better treble.  The orange filters will give you more bass without affecting the treble too much.  People compare the treble between filters, but the difference between filters is much less than the difference between other earphones.  The orange brings the bass to a much better level if you are worried and want a bit more than the er4s/hf5 bass but not a bass cannon.  I can't speak for the uerm, but it sounds like it's similar bass but a bit more...  Would you say the uerm has more bass than the orange filters gnarlsagan?

I think the orange filters would put the ER4S really close to the UERM in terms of bass quantity, but the treble would be further away. I'll try the orange again and post back with something more concrete.

 

[brofeelgood]

  I have always been curious about the ER4; I don't mind deep fit, but I am just worried they won't have the bass I want. I love the tonality of the HF5, but I couldn't live with so little bass. If the ER4 has less significantly less bass than the UERM, I probably wouldn't like it.

 
The ER4S has even less "perceived" bass than the HF5, because of its awesome treble which unfortunately overwhelms the bass presentation.
 
In my opinion, the 4P isn't much better than a HF5, has about the same amount of bass, and is definitely a step down from the 4S.
 
For a while too, I held back on the ER4 because of the same concerns (bass). But I grossly underestimated how much better it is overall, especially for mid/high focused music. It is no bass monster for sure, but that's probably what makes it so special.

 

[luisdent]

   
The ER4S has even less "perceived" bass than the HF5, because of its awesome treble which unfortunately overwhelms the bass presentation.
 
In my opinion, the 4P isn't much better than a HF5, has about the same amount of bass, and is definitely a step down from the 4S.
 
For a while too, I held back on the ER4 because of the same concerns (bass). But I grossly underestimated how much better it is overall, especially for mid/high focused music. It is no bass monster for sure, but that's probably what makes it so special.

 
I agree, but the interesting thing about the er4s vs. the er4p and hf5 is that, even though the better more level treble makes the bass on a whole "seem" a little less, it has another benefit of making the bass sound better.  The additional accuracy from the treble gives life to bass instrument by letting you hear the string noises better and the "detail" of the bass.  So even though the bass amount has the impression of being lower, I personally find the bass sounds better and that added detail allows you to pick out basses better.  If you're going for strictly more low bass volume than the er4s might not be the ticket...  Although with just a little eq in the sub bass I bet you gnarlsagan would say the er4s trumps the uerm in every way

 

[Gilly87]

Can I make a wish? SM3 bass driver with an ER4S driver...I want to hear that.

 

[alpha421]

Curious with the rest of ER4S owners, but anyone contemplating  on "upgrading" to the NT6 or NT6 Pro ciem?

 

[lewisbot]

  Curious with the rest of ER4S owners, but anyone contemplating  on "upgrading" to the NT6 or NT6 Pro ciem?

 
I have been, especially as an HD800 fan as well. I love the ER4S sound, but they have not agreed with my ears for more than a couple songs at a time–as is the case with most UIEMs that I try (but I try them because I like testing out different sound signatures). CIEMs are better for me, personally.
 
Has anyone already "upgraded"?

 

[gnarlsagan]

   
I have been, especially as an HD800 fan as well. I love the ER4S sound, but they have not agreed with my ears for more than a couple songs at a time–as is the case with most UIEMs that I try (but I try them because I like testing out different sound signatures). CIEMs are better for me, personally.
 
Has anyone already "upgraded"?

 

  Curious with the rest of ER4S owners, but anyone contemplating  on "upgrading" to the NT6 or NT6 Pro ciem?

 
As far as I know, there is no "upgrade" to the ER4S. Its goal is to match the DF reference target, and it does it better than anything I've heard so far. Any other iem offers a different flavor that isn't really trying to match the same target. I'm open to different arguments though. For example, I think a bass increase for 50Hz and below could be warranted. 
 
The NT6 has massive a 10k spike. Not sure about the pro.

 

[shakur1996]

I have to disagree with all the opinions on the custom sleeves to Ety. I own one which was made by the Custom Art. There are some differences between the sound on the custom sleeves and the sound on the small triple flange, but they are not night and day. There is maybe a little more bass (or I would rather say the subjective perception of it is like there is more of it), the soundstage is a little more well-organized and there is a little more highs. Peter from the Custom Art measured my Etys on the triple and with the custom sleeves and the frequncy response shows no difference up to 6 kHz; between 6 kHz and 16 kHz there is more highs (but not so large and there are no particular spikes or dips) on the custom sleeves with the one big spike around 14 kHz. I talked to Peter and according to him there is a chance that if he would make the horn in the custom sleeves a little less long then probably the difference in the highs would disappear or would be very, very small.

 

[luisdent]

First, most people are referred to acs to microsonics by etymotic. I was referring to those customs, however, it sounds like yours have the same issue of treble. Maybe not as bad, but do you have a graph we can see? I'm sure different people will mind the change more or less than others. But I wouldn't want any change in treble, especially not a lot of change.

You can search around and see that most people have problems with these two custom tips. Rin measured multiple tips and they were off significantly. The people who benefit most are usually the ones who don't get a deep tight seal and so lack bass. The customs might fix that at the cost of treble accuracy if seal is the issue.

I think the main problem is that you might be gaining seal quality, but you're moving the driver further from the eardrum. Putting the filter at the end changes things, but doesn't fix the issue and causes other FR issues.

The only real solution I could see would be a custom that is smaller and allows a fit as deep as the triple flange. This would probably be difficult from a manufacturing standpoint. Everyone's ears and opinions are different though, so some may prefer them. However, I've yet to see a graph of one that retains even 90% accuracy, nor have any of the four attempts I've gone though sound acceptable, :-/
Considering the evidence, you're lucky if you enjoy yours, but they're an expensive risk. Perhaps other companies fare better?

 

[robm321]

  Curious with the rest of ER4S owners, but anyone contemplating  on "upgrading" to the NT6 or NT6 Pro ciem?

 
From a comparison I've read, it seems the JH13 is more neutral. So, I'd rather go with that. 

 

[shotgunshane]

If this helps any- I'd say the JH13 is more on the OW side of neutral and the UERM more on the diffuse field side of neutral with more brightness. Not sure where the NT6's would fall.

 

[alpha421]

Yeah, the JH13 and UERM is on my radar as well. It's significantly cheaper when on sale compared to the NT6.  On a budget note I've been eyeing the Cosmic Ears BA4R, but I prefer to deal with stateside business when it comes to ciem.  I guess I'll wait until JH Audio has their usual Thanksgiving/Xmas sale.  In the past, I haven't experienced any holiday sales from UE.

 

[gnarlsagan]

If this helps any- I'd say the JH13 is more on the OW side of neutral and the UERM more on the diffuse field side of neutral with more brightness. Not sure where the NT6's would fall.

Have you heard the JH13? If so how was the treble response compared to the UERM?