[kman1211]

   
It "went away over time" because it was never there.  When you first listened to them, you expected to hear a veil and you heard it.
 
I really wish people would stop simply parroting what some Grado fanboy said 20 years ago and let the myth of the "Sennheiser veil" just fade away.
 
I'm not really attacking you personally. I'm just ranting at the community as a whole for keeping this nonsense alive.

The HD 600 isn't the only headphone I thought sounded veiled or rather congested at first, it has happened on headphones I never expected to hear a veil on for example the K712 sounded veiled for about a week to me and it was brighter than the headphone I came from. I wouldn't say it's a necessarily a myth but rather a way they can sound at first or on certain systems as well as what people are used to listening to, they definitely sounded congested and muffled at first, it was likely due to the high clamp at first and the pads not being broken in yet.
 
The thing is I've heard both the HD 600 and HD 650 extensively before getting the HD 600 and I did not find either veiled any of the times I heard them, but they were also well worn-in pairs. I am just referring to a brand new HD 600 sounding veiled at first. What I said has nothing to do with perpetrating a myth.

 

[cswann1]

 

 
I'll stop beating this dead horse when it stops stinking up my forum

 

[CADCAM]

   
It sound veiled because you are used to DT880. Instead of getting used to 598 and make it reference, you talk from reference point of DT880. That is fine, no problem ofcourse. But this means you do not take enough time to understand why HD598 sound the way it does.
 
And this will be similar with HD600. Simply the Sennheiser approach is a whole lot different from Beyer. If you take enough time to try understand HD600, you will appreciate it. But that would be same for HD598.

I listen to all my headphones pretty much equally, might even listen to the Beyer's a little less than the others. I spent quite a bit of time listening to the HD598 but never warmed up to the sound. They were so beautiful I wanted to love them but after several months I sold them off. I have issue's with both pairs of my Superlux headphones but keep them and thoroughly enjoy my Audio Technica and Beyer's. My "reference" by the way would be my main 2 channel set-up in the listening room but no headphone I have heard approaches that system.

 

[SunshineReggae]

 
I listen to all my headphones pretty much equally, might even listen to the Beyer's a little less than the others. I spent quite a bit of time listening to the HD598 but never warmed up to the sound. They were so beautiful I wanted to love them but after several months I sold them off. I have issue's with both pairs of my Superlux headphones but keep them and thoroughly enjoy my Audio Technica and Beyer's. My "reference" by the way would be my main 2 channel set-up in the listening room but no headphone I have heard approaches that system.

 
Ok = ) I don't believe then you will enjoy HD600. Maybe you will, but I don't expect it.

 

[kman1211]

 
I listen to all my headphones pretty much equally, might even listen to the Beyer's a little less than the others. I spent quite a bit of time listening to the HD598 but never warmed up to the sound. They were so beautiful I wanted to love them but after several months I sold them off. I have issue's with both pairs of my Superlux headphones but keep them and thoroughly enjoy my Audio Technica and Beyer's. My "reference" by the way would be my main 2 channel set-up in the listening room but no headphone I have heard approaches that system.

I never warmed up to the HD 5x5 or HD 5x8's sound, honestly I sort of hated their sound(so boring) and they are what put me off from Sennheiser at first. But when it comes to the HD 600 and HD 650, they just grow on you. They are much more enjoyable and musical than the HD 598. The HD 600 is the first headphone I owned I enjoyed as much as the K712 and Q701.

 

[CADCAM]

 
I never warmed up to the HD 5x5 or HD 5x8's sound, honestly I sort of hated their sound(so boring) and they are what put me off from Sennheiser at first. But when it comes to the HD 600 and HD 650, they just grow on you. They are much more enjoyable and musical than the HD 598. The HD 600 is the first headphone I owned I enjoyed as much as the K712 and Q701.

I almost purchased the K612 and have considered the Q701 as well. I just wish we could demo these before we take the plunge and buy them...I still may try the HD600 as I've heard so many good things and have to believe it sounds much better than the HD598.

 

[kman1211]

 
I almost purchased the K612 and have considered the Q701 as well. I just wish we could demo these before we take the plunge and buy them...I still may try the HD600 as I've heard so many good things and have to believe it sounds much better than the HD598.

I would suggest the Q701(if the headband doesn't bother you) over the K612 personally as I found it scales up a bit better. True, it's hard to demo a lot of headphones but I found headphones generally need some time to appreciate as well. It's worth a shot, I found they need to be given a week or two to fully start appreciating them.

 

[Brooko]

Hiya all.  Been reading the last couple of pages with interest - especially because I've spent a few hours with an HD598, and have owned (for extensive periods) - DT880, HD600, and all of the AKG Q/K 701,702 + K612.
 
@SunshineReggae - great description of the DT880 vs HD600.  I absolutely concur.  There is a difference between neutral and natural, and they can go hand-in-hand sometimes, but a lot of people mix the terms up.  I very much agree that the DT880 is more neutral than the HD600. It is has more linearity from sub-bass to upper treble (admittedly it still has that treble peak which gives it the brightness), whereas the HD600 rolls off earlier in the sub-bass, and has the mild mid-bass emphasis.  But the HD600 has something that the DT880 (IMO) doesn't have - and that is the stunning sense of natural tone and timbre.  Instruments sound real.  And that is the real magic of the HD600.  No other headphone I've heard to date conveys the sense of realism that I've heard with the HD600.
 
@cswann1 - you're not the only one that hates the "Sennheiser veil" term.  I know it mainly was used referring to the HD650 - which definitely has a darker tonality. I get miffed though when people talk about it in relation to the HD600 as well.  I think it really came into force when the DT880, K701, and HD600/HD650 were the three kings of the headphone world.  Two cans that were brighter than normal (more etched) - but still relatively neutral vs the HD650 which lived a little on the darker side of neutral. I know that with a properly amped HD600 - I never noticed any veil - even when compared with the DT880 (when I owned them).
 
@kman1211 - good contributions also.  And agree on the HD598 vs HD600.  Yep they are similar in a way - but that top end on the 598 was just too grainy for me.  What do you think of the K612 vs HD600?  I always thought the two were quite similar (about as close as an AKG gets to the HD600) when I had both.
 
@CADCAM - if you get the chance to demo a pair of HD600 you really should.  For timbre / tone / realism alone - they are the perfect compliment to the DT880.  I very much enjoyed owning both, and would often listen to one or the other in rotation depending on how my mood was.  They are a similar family to - but also quite different to - the HD598.  Smaller stage, but better imaging. Similar speed/decay - but better far tonality and timbre portrayal.  Notice I said "demo" though - as I have a sneaking suspicion (like Mr Reggae) that if you find the HD598 too dull/'veiled' - then the HD600 may not tick your boxes either.  If it doesn't, and you want a definite upgrade from your DT880 - the T1 is the next step for you.  It's so competitively priced now as well - so IMO worth looking at.  My thread on the two is here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/727739/comparison-review-beyerdynamic-s-siblings-the-classic-dt880-vs-the-flagship-t1

 

[kman1211]

 
@kman1211 - good contributions also.  And agree on the HD598 vs HD600.  Yep they are similar in a way - but that top end on the 598 was just too grainy for me.  What do you think of the K612 vs HD600?  I always thought the two were quite similar (about as close as an AKG gets to the HD600) when I had both.

 
The K612 is a bit leaner and somewhat grainier and more spacious sounding than the HD 600, the HD 600 has a bit of lushness present to it's sound. In terms of soundstage and imaging they are different. Honestly they lack the refinement of the HD 600 and the K712/Q701 to the point I have some trouble listening to them. I prefer the HD 600 and K712 as well as the Q701 over the K612.

 

[Brooko]

Agree on the resolution.  Q701/K702 definitely have that over the K612.  Personally I preferred the tonality of the K612 though.  I'll have to get to listen to a K712 one of these days.

 

[kman1211]

  Agree on the resolution.  Q701/K702 definitely have that over the K612.  Personally I preferred the tonality of the K612 though.  I'll have to get to listen to a K712 one of these days.

I find the Q701 and K712 have a better tonality than the K612 on my Lyr 2. I was trying out the Q701 but I decided I prefer the K712 probably be a couple weeks till I have the K712 in my hands again. The Q701 and K712 are similar but the K712 is a bit thicker and darker sounding but also a little more forward giving it stronger dynamics with a less spacious soundstage. It's soundstage sounds more natural to me than the Q701s.

 

[SunshineReggae]

   
It's a pretty easy comment to follow.  Not sure why I would need more than sarcasm.  

 
Not at all.
 
EQ out treble of DT880 a bit is easy. Use tone control, twist to left, done. But EQ midbass on HD600 to get more linear sound? Good luck. Impossible to do without mess up timbre and warmth of the sound. It's what makes HD600/HD650 ticks. Not to mention you can't improve the quality of the subbass to DT880 level (or better) just with EQ.
 
So yes if you wanna argue this I will prefer something better then sarcasm.

 

[pp312]

 

   
It's a pretty easy comment to follow.  Not sure why I would need more than sarcasm.  

 
Not at all.
 
EQ out treble of DT880 a bit is easy. Use tone control, twist to left, done. But EQ midbass on HD600 to get more linear sound? Good luck. Impossible to do without mess up timbre and warmth of the sound. It's what makes HD600/HD650 ticks. Not to mention you can't improve the quality of the subbass to DT880 level (or better) just with EQ.
 
 

 
 
Totally agree. In fact I consider that one of the great strengths of the 880, that it lends itself so well to the simplest forms of EQ. I use 10 O'Clock treble, 2 O'Clock bass on my Marantz integrated. The bass boost of course can be omitted but it's a guilty pleasure. You could not EQ HD600/650 or K702/701 or most other headphones with tone controls; you'd need a 10 band graphic.

 

[VALIENTE]

I need to clap my hands after Frank Sinatra performed the song "New York, New York."

 

[Tuco1965]

   
 
Totally agree. In fact I consider that one of the great strengths of the 880, that it lends itself so well to the simplest forms of EQ. I use 10 O'Clock treble, 2 O'Clock bass on my Marantz integrated. The bass boost of course can be omitted but it's a guilty pleasure. You could not EQ HD600/650 or K702/701 or most other headphones with tone controls; you'd need a 10 band graphic.

 
I don't EQ my cans because I like how they sound.  As far as tone controls go, that's what I would call a very rough EQ job.  Note that I say "I".  You can toss graphic equalizers out too.  A parametric equalizer would allow for a proper EQ job.  Now having said that, the only thing that matters is how they sound to you and not me.  If a tone control gets the sound you like, then great.  I just find that a blanket statement that this can or that can lends itself to easier EQing than another, is too general.  We all hear differently.  We don't all hear the audio spectrum as a flat line.  A peak to one ear may be a dip to another.  Before we even put a pair of cans on, we are already putting another "thing" in the music chain.  That "thing" is us. 
 
Once again I'll say that all that really matters is how something sounds to you.  How you get there is also up to you.
 
Now back to our regularly scheduled HD 600 thread.