Murder Mike
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2013
- Posts
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- 32
I should have my Annies + NFB 11.32 by the end of next week. (Thanks MLE) Am I correct in saying that all I would need for Dolby Headphone would be a Xonar DG or DGX?
Just ordered my first HiFi setup, DT 880/600 + E09k + E17. Now comes the painful part... WAAAITIIING!!!
Well, I have heard the AD700...and the HTF600...and the CitiScape Uptown...and a vintage Sansui SS-20. That's about it for "normal" cans. No Sennheisers, Beyerdynamics, AKGs, Denons, or Ultrasones to be found there. You know, the kind of headphones people talk about all the time. Rarely does anyone talk about Stax unless it's the flagship Omega-series models.
I just happened to be in a circumstance where instead of stepping up to AD900s or DT880s like I was originally thinking, I suddenly saw this Stax Lambda setup at a price I could afford, recalled the people in a PC gaming thread praising it for its gaming prowess, and the rest is history. Haven't really felt the need to buy more headphones since, other than sheer curiosity. Curiosity that often left me disappointed, at that.
Most people jump into electrostatics very late in their headphone journey, if they choose to do so at all. I did so very early, and that means I don't have any common frames of reference to compare to the Stax setups I've heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7ojmAQS1s&feature=share
If you really want to audition them then you really just need to try a DH device like a mixamp or tb dss. What you'll get out of the receiver will be better tone controls, absolutely dark noise floor and more power then out of just a mixamp or dss. I recommend the H&K avr-254 or if you have more money to spend then get a Marantz (their lower end receivers don't have DH iirc). I do have a couple issues with the 254 so I have to see if there's a firmware update for it.
calpis. My problem is that I already have a headphone amp. I wonder if it's safe to hook up an amp to a receiver's hpo. Lol.
In fact, I WANT a receiver now. I'll sell my 5.8 to help fund for one. No reason to have a Mixamp after that. I have the SLYR's mixer for voice chat.
Which one do you have?
I don't have a problemn with the SLYR's mixer. And I chat almost never anyways, lol. Literally, maybe once a year. XD
Even using the SLYR, I had chat turned off. I just want DH with a black background.
Anyone interested in the 5.8 with rechargeable battery pack, and PS3 usb chat? $150 total. Trust me, that's a fair price, considering it's rare as hell now.
BTW, those with Q701s...
Might be worth getting the pads, though not sure if it will turn them into Annies without the comfortable headband.
Also, put my 5.8 up for sale.
When I used the SLYR's mixer I noticed some strange background noises while dead silent. Also, I would strongly suggest getting a Marantz opposed to HK. I had a 247 with the common HDMI issue (that is how I ended up with the 3600, but it had Harman Headphone and not Dolby Headphone), and from the research I have done it appeared to still be a common issue with the newer 254. Plus IMO D&M Holdings > Harman.
-Erik
Don't spend that much. I picked up a NIB SR5002 off craigslist for $160 about a month ago (guy purchased 2 of them 4 years ago and only used 1). On ebay I've seen a couple go under $150. Go here to see all the ones on ebay, and here you can see how cheap some have gone in the past. You can also look at the SR400x series, they might not have as many HDMI inputs though.
-Erik
SoAmusing, I have the perfect link for you to test how much you can hear the difference of different compression bitrates, or at least get a general idea. Please check out my new thread next week, I'll post the link to the test on Monday and I would appreciate your testing it out and adding some thoughts.
I prefer my Recon3D's surround processing over SC for just the same reason as you, the reverb feels too unnatural. I was pleased THX TruStudio Pro did surround for me without extra reverb.
Mad, Nameless, Chico, everyone,
I've finally made the beginnings of my guide! I had to take first and second post quickly so that it'll follow the format I'm intending, so it's unfinished right now, but check it out sometime! I'll flesh out the wording, but maybe not tonight as my girlfriend wants me to come over.
Link to the "Wish I knew then what I know now" journal/guide:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal
You really think I would reply recommending you get the SR5001/2 if it didn't have DH? Come on now, lol... Plus, D&M typically uses better DAC's and their power supplies are MUCH stronger than the competitions.
-Erik
I'll probably settle for a little less. I need that receiver.
Nvm, I bought it... Lol...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181063966916?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
SR5002 for $209 total. Used Bill Me Later.
Quite often the original recording or CD master is so shoddy that a little bit more/less compression would make even less of a difference. Personally I can't tell the difference between FLAC and 320kbps rips from the same source material (or even 192kbps most of the time, depends on genre and the particular recording).
I still rip all my CD to FLAC tho, it's the principle of the thing, plus it just makes sense as a way to future proof my collection. 200 or so CD take up less than 50GB anyway, and I can reconvert the whole shebang at any point without taking a hit in quality.
I do maintain a separate library with the whole thing converted to 192 mp3 so sync'ing is easier, Media Monkey's library and filter tools make it easy to keep it all straight. I still buy CD for artists/bands I really like, tho I've bought less lately (and more mp3 singles).
Amazon's new Autorip deal might spur me to buy more discs tho, since you get the best of both worlds... A disc you can rip to lossless later and the instant gratification of having your music on their cloud which you can easily steam and/or download to anything.
Couldn't you just go from the receiver's RCA out to the amp? Or would the receiver not let you use any headphone modes at that point?
I doubt you'd harm anything going from a receiver's headphone output (which is often mediocre) to the hp amp, you'd just run into the same kind of situation as running a hp amp from a laptop's hp jack etc.
Not very different than going from Mixamp to hp amp, not ideal but ehh...
The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.
The good thing is the HE400 and AKGs are immune to output impedances, so I may not need my Compass 2 when gaming.
I can pretty much guarantee that RCA out wont have Dolby Headphone. That would be tied to the headphone jack.
So the Marantz SR5001 and SR5002 have DH? Great, that means I can shop for receivers other than the Harmon Kardon AVR 254 and AVR 354 when the time comes!
I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).
x2
Otherwise how will I know if the receiver is worth it and sounds any better than the mixamp + headphone amp setup!!
So it's 2013 and there still aren't any devices that take DD 5.1 via optical or HDMI, encode it into DH stereo via a decent DAC, then output it via RCAs at line level, 3.5mm line out, or even via RCA preamp out?
It seems like that would be ideal if you already have an external headphone amp.
Using a full receiver just to encode DH (via the receivers DAC) and get a little cleaner signal out of the HP jack to source to another headphone amp seems silly.
There aren't any tiny receiver like devices that take HDMI (or just optical), encode DH via the DAC, and then output the signal by means of something other than a direct HP jack (RCA or 3.5mm line out)?
Using the reciever's HP jack directly to the headphone makes sense, but I don't know squat about how receivers HP jacks sound. I just know people complain about the high output impedances on them...
Yeah. Thats why id use my external amp, so it can stabilize the frequency response, and feed it to the headphone with its lower output impedance.
LOL... I was off doing some DIY stuff and this happens.
I've connected my mstage to my avr247 before. I set the 247 to -5db to 0db and then adjust the rest on the mstage. When I'm playing purely out of hp jack on the receiver, I have it set from anywhere between -15db to -25db depending on which headphone and if I'm chatting with a mic directly hooked up to the controller. To my knowledge 0db is what sound producers master their audio at, I saw this on a youtube video somewhere.
tbh, I couldn't really tell if there was a difference adding the mstage into the mix. Then again, I wasn't really seriously trying to find any difference but more for schiits and giggles.
D'aw, this is ridiculously cute. Dunno how I missed it earlier.
I don't know what output impedance problems are supposed to sound like, but I've had squat problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) or my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.
I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not
Speaking of my thread, finally finished filling in my first mini-guide and topic on my thread, I can has comments/subscription? http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400
Need moar emphasis to text. MOAR!
Also, your method of finding the line-out volume sounds logical and could be veeeery helpful to people. Do you mind if I quote your post in a later article? You'd be credited, of course.
Pioneer's Headphone Surround is good too. I've gamed w/ it for past few years as well as DH and I have no problems with it.
FYI... THE GAME CHANGER MAYBE THE NEW DTS HEADPHONE X SHOWN @ CES THIS YEAR. Very good impressions of it and will come out at end of year.
That sounds very promising. Especially since the timing comes very close to the impending Steam Box (might be called the Piston?), a small-sized PC built expressly to run games from Valve's Steam store. If the Steam box has headphone surround and people take notice (and it's not too hard to enable in games), it would be a major competitive advantage among all the other stuff PCs do better versus the next-gen consoles. Especially since there is speculation that there won't be too much graphically to set any one console apart from another.
Just.
ONE.
Console.
Has.
To.
Do.
It!
This is very relevant to the current topic on my thread... Just saying.
Also, SoAmusing's post kinda rubs me the wrong way. Seems to misrepresent stuff, very black-and-white. I hope I don't regret saying so in the morning, but maybe... Relax, a little? You may wish you hadn't spent so much money and worry, some day. Remember, they're just first world problems
^Why am I getting a sense of déjà vu... did you already write that the Phoebus uses Dolby home theater? Version 4?
I still think the best thing is more samples so people can test out what kind of processing works best for them, and I really want to help in my own small way by producing my own samples. What if Dolby Headphone doesn't turn out to be all that and a box of raisins for you guys? Maybe that's what returns are for, but still... Good length and quality samples would be much easier. I'm not really sure I've ruled out CMSS-3D yet either, I just didn't like the few samples (and I'm treble-scared).
*sigh* this is good discussion, I really wish some of it was on my mini-guide before I post a new topic around Monday. Some day it will reach subscriber critical mass, and it will almost write itself, for now I just gotta be patient. I purposefully started with headphone surround, because people ask about it yet don't usually have much need to add to the explanation, and I think I'll be able to talk to myself for a while. I don't want to steal from this thread (I'm subscribed to a bunch of threads myself), I just want to archive resources. Well, I think I might also miss writing articles, heh
re: DTS:X
The DTS Headphone:X experience first requires surround content to be encoded as a DTS-HD bitstream, with the room information embedded in the stream. Next, DTS Headphone:X (embedded on a PC, tablet or phone) calibrates the headphones. Finally, the reference data is decoded and post-processing enhancement is employed to deliver a truly amazing, home theater quality surround sound experience over headphones
interesting
JHalf,
Can I quote your post in my thread about surround audio?
I'm a little tired, so I'll be brief (For Once!). If you have a Marantz, could you use a graphics card with HDMI out? My motherboard has HDMI. USB dongles can add HDMI. HD my eye.
This is how I understand it too. I was going more along the lines of using the DH from a sound card like a DGX, then just using any old receiver/DAC with an HDMI input to convert it to stereo.
Although I guess what you said would be easier, wonder if the Marantz receiver can output the DH through an RCA out. Then you could have could theoretically have Video card- HDMI out- Marantz receiver- headphone amp (For synergy)- headphone.
It would be interesting to know if the DH sound changes with different inputs into the receiver. (Stereo, or legit 5.1) I still can't find out if DH uses a real 5.1 signal or not, but I would guess that the marantz receiver would tell you its giving you DH regardless of the input you send it.
Define a "real" 5.1 signal? The Mixamp, turtle beach DSS, and Tritton ax720 unit all function by receiving DDL 5.1 audio sent over optical, inside where the unit processes that 5.1 with DH into stereo with the virtual surround effect, then the unit does DAC, Amp, export through headphone jack. DSS2 and Recon3D also use the 5.1 DDL signal, but use their own processing to produce a similar result. On a receiver hooked up to a DVD player or Blu-Ray disc, the disc player sends the 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio and video through optical (and whatever video-out) or both through HDMI to the receiver, the receiver uses DH again to convert the multi-channel audio to stereo with the surround effect, DAC, amp, e-jack't the signal. A console --> reciever setup is exacly the same. I don't see why a computer couldn't do the same to a receiver and suddenly DH couldn't "use a real 5.1 signal" and do the rest.
If you want RCA out, couldn't you just use a 3.5mm to RCA cable?
If you don't like the surround processing or amp of a receiver, seems strange to use the receiver at all just for it's DAC.
I know I'm tired, but I just got pretty confused.
Wow, so I sent the package WITHOUT the HE-400 cable...
In a mad rush, I drove back to the mail service (Pakmail) and told him to get my package. Thank god they hadn't picked it up yet.
Been a long night.
Okay, so you have confirmed that DH does infact use an encoded 5.1 signal. That was what i was asking, and not sure if true. I have also suspected that if you give the marantz receiver a stereo signal it would try to use dolby pro logic give you a (not as good) DH signal.
The benefit to using the marantz receiver as apposed to a DAC, is that it is the same price as a cheap soundcard + DAC. Plus it gives you options to hook all kinds of other stuff up to it, Bookshelf speakers, whatever.
Its also unique to me because my nice home theater system using an Onkyo 806 receiver is setup in my living room, where my computer rig is also setup. I am currently using a 35' long HDMI cable from my computer to the onkyo receiver for when i want to listen to, or display content on my nice home theater setup. if i then put a Marantz receiver on my desk I could use its HDMI switch to go to both receivers (My 570 GTX only has 1 HDMI out).
Ideally I am trying to find the best solution for my computers headphone setup. it originally involved DGX->DAC->M-Stage->Annies, but the DAC is tricky because there arent any decent AC power, with optical input units I can find in my price range. But if the receiver could give me the DH and DAC through my video cards HDMI, then I could replace those things with it.
Im sure half of what I'm saying doesnt make sense, Im just throwing out random thoughts.
Do I make sense? Lol. I should eat something.
If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least try DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.
I am again ignoring source switching and stuff from receivers, because in your case you want to connect one source to two outputs... receivers ALSO usually just have one HDMI out.
Mad,
We should sleep. Not together, but probably at the same time. My iPad's onscreen keyboard has begun to appear to have iridescent purple and green hues to it. But first, I must call a lady at a hotel to ask if I can work for her as an audio/video assistant, then I'll make a sandwich. Toasted roast beef with melted Brie cheese. Mmmmh.
Okay, info dump time. This is how I have my PC connected to my H&K avr254. First of all, I have 3 different audio outputs connected to my computer: Asus xonar u1 to Matrix Mstage, Onboard stereo jack to Mirage omni directional ipod speaker dock, and GTX550ti to Harman Kardon AVR254. Each setup has a different purpose and I switch between them using this program for windows that stays in the icon tray area.
http://www.2shared.com/complete/QfcDZ8Vm/AudioSwitcher.html
First here are the wire connections: DVI-1 of my gtx550 to DVI port on my monitor. DVI-2/HDMI-Mini of my gtx550 to HDMI-IN on my receiver. HDMI-OUT of my receiver to HDMI-IN of my monitor.
I have it setup this way so I can still use my PC without having to have my receiver always be on.
Now here's how I have it setup in windows 7:
Enable 2nd extended monitor in the nvidia control panel. Turn on the receiver. Control Panel>Sound and set the receiver as the primary sound device. Make sure under "configure speakers" when you right click on the receiver is set to either 5.1 or 7.1. Boom audio.
If you don't enable the 2nd monitor then the hdcp chain isn't complete and you won't get any audio. When I turn off the receiver, the receiver no longer appears in the sound devices.
Thats awesome, And I will def try the DGX-Mstage-Annies. The M Stage is already bought.
The thought about the receiver is that i could do GTX570 HDMI Out -> marantz receiver < M Stage-> Annies
HDMI Out-> Onkyo Receiver-> Home Theater Content
I do not know where my head is at today... though it's probably in my car. It won't start, had to borrow my roomie's for two days. Sigh... anyways, I fixed the issue. The HE-400 is completely on it's way.
For anyone who cares, the steelseries mixer is back in stock. You can use it (3.5mm) with a receiver for audio and USB end for mic support.
http://shop.steelseries.com/us/audio/steelseries-cross-platform-audio-mixer.html
MLE,
Are you planning on reviewing the Annie and updating the guide before you sell the mixamp??
I don't know what output impedance problems are supposed to sound like, but I've had squat problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) or my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.
I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not
Do I make sense? Lol. I should eat something.
If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least try DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.
I am again ignoring source switching and stuff from receivers, because in your case you want to connect one source to two outputs... receivers ALSO usually just have one HDMI out.
-----
It's very much a case of YMMV, but something to be aware of if you're looking to drive a pair of headphones optimally or if you're looking to compare them across different sources/amps.