Three years ago I was graciously helped by members here to assemble my first headphone system: My Accuphase 90/91 Transport /DAC combo feeding a Cary 300SEI with Western Electric 300B tubes to both the Senn 600s and the ATH W2002s (which a member here was kind enough to pick up for me in Singapore after they were no longer available anywhere else).

This is my ONLY experience with a headphone based system and I sold it after about 2 months. The Senn 600s were distant and just not engaging and the W2002s were boxy, congested in the midrange and lacked the open staging of the Senns. My system just lacked the rich texture and liquidity I was expecting from the Cary 300SEI particularly with those Western Electric 300Bs.

Anyway, having been into HIFI for quite some time, I know that it is possible to have great equipment but lack synergy and perhaps that is what happened to me. I am certainly not experienced enought to diss either of the phones and I know the Cary to sound great with the right speakers - So please take no offense to my comments about what may be your favorite gear.

I got an iPod recently and it has me listening to portable earphones (the Senn px100s) and I thought I might try a nice headphone based system again - Although I am keeping my speaker based set up.

I'd like the headphones to have the presence of the Grados (although the ONLY grado I have heard is the 225) but without the fatigue and the ringing treble. AND I would like a rich very liquid sound...I have experienced headphones to be resolving enough that I will trade the Nth degree of resolution for warmth and liquidity/musicality.

It would be cool if I could drive it with the iPod (AAC files ripped @ 320kbps) but if that is not possible so be it. For that matter it would be cool if it was portable without a backpack to carry it - but again, homebased would probably be the most logical.

If not the iPod I would drive it off the Accuphase system and if I loved it I would consider another good source.

SO what I need from you gracious experts is A SYSTEM whose synergy really delivers and not just a list of good parts.

I want something that is more present and musically engaging than what I had in the ATH W2002/Cary 300SEI set up.

Not to sound terrible but I have no real budget in mind - I do however know about the Orpheus and think I can try headphones out without starting there.

Your input would be greatly appreciated and, in fact, I would not even consider buying anything until I get (and I am crossing my fingers that I do get) adequate feedback from some of you who really know what you are doing.



Many many thanks,
Michael
mbratrud@mchsi.com

mbratrud -

The high-end flavor of the month is the Stax system. I'd audition an Omega II/717 system first. If you like the sound, buy it, then have ZZZ build you a custom KGSS or Weebl amplifier. Problem solved. Depending on if you bought the Stax in the US or imported from overseas you're looking at mid four to low five figures, American.

If you prefer dynamic systems, pick up a Sony MDR-R10, then look in the recent meeting threads for a proper amplifier. I think Singlepower may be the current rage.

Alternatively, if you can get Carlo (PM him to find out) to find the time, he modifies the old Melos pre-amplifiers. They are the best that I've heard with low impedence high efficiency cans like the Sony. This combo will set you back mid four figures US.

ps I've already put MY money where my mouth is, I have both cans, and both a Carlo'd Melos and ZZZ'd Weebl coming sometime soon. Big money, long wait, but at least it sounds like money isn't a consideration for you.

Good Luck

Smokey,

Thanks for the advice. Remember, I have very little experience with headphone based systems so here goes:

I once owned the ATH W2002s. At the time I bought them Markl, who still graciously posts here, had just passed them over in favor of the Sony MDR10 king. He seemed to prefer the Sony, but in the discussions it appeared that - not only was the Sony only "possibly" better than the MDR10 but that , since they are both closed , they sounded fairly similar to each other barring the ways in which the MDR10s were superior.

I might point out that the Sony MDR10s are from what I gather, hard to get and difficult to match with an am - or an amp you can find marketed.

I am a bit afraid to buy someting which requires that it be heavily modified by some grey market source - not that there is anything wrong with modding but that I simply am not in a position to know anyone to do the mods or, of course what kind of mods to make. Too I am trying to find out how difficult it is to own out of production models.

For instance, poeple have highly recommended the HP-1000 - now I don't know how one goes about buying a set of headphones which have not been produced in years. Is it like owning an old sports car where you need to be able to work on them yourself or know a good mechanic?

Can you buy a pair of these older phones and forget them since they are buit like tanks and last a long time?

I have never heard the Stax or for that matter electrostatic phones. The only thing I know about them is that the guy who for years has sold me high end equipment for my speaker based system said he would sell me an Orpheus for a good price and that it was hands down the best headphone system out there - Then he told me I would never be satisfied listening to headphones so it was a waste of money. This is exactly the kind of wisdom that makes this so frustrating - there are so many pieces of conflicting advice.

Hi mbratrud,
Quote:



My feeling about the W2002s is that, for a $700-$800 headphone, they define what is possible at that price point. I felt that they were *probably* a little tiny bit preferable to me over the Sony CD3000 (the $400 headphone descended from the R10) which in turn, I had greatly preferred to the distant wooly HD600s. But I never had them side-by-side to compare, so I was guessing.

I had been "encouraged" let's say to get the W2002 by a very enthusiastic member who insisted they were better than the R10 he had heard briefly in a very strange set-up. In any case, as I concluded in my review, yes, I felt the w2002 was a fine headphone, but in a different class from the R10 that I had owned for a little while by that point. To me, the W2002 belongs more to the HD600/Grado RS-1/Sony CD3000 class of headphones, where the R10 are just in another class altogether. Here's a couple links to my reviews of the R10s, and the R10 vs. W2002 thread:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...&threadid=8302
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...&threadid=5008
Quote:



From what I've read here, the Cary should be a great match for the R10s. I only got to hear one briefly with my R10s with unfamiliar music and associated gear, but I liked what I heard. Right now, I'm using the Ray Samuels Emmeline HR-2 headamp with my R10s, and it's my favorite so far. It really brings out the R10s bass. It's a solid-state amp that is "only" $875, but IMO performs at a much higher level. Ray is coming out with a tube headamp that will be called The Stealth that will retail somewhere around the $1400 mark depending on options. I can't wait to get hold of a review sample! The R10 probably needs more juice than an iPod can put out on its own, and is probably far more headphone than you would need for casual mp3 listening. But if you want a great home-based set-up, it's definitely worth building a system around. Quote:



Sounds like the R10s are a good match with your requirements.

Good luck!

Mark

Quote:



What does he consider a 'good price'? Quote:



That is a question that only you can decide after some experience with this form of listening. Why do you want a headphone setup anyway? The answer to that may help your final decisions.

Jpelg,

It was almost 3 years ago now but I think he said he could get me an Orpheus for around $9k - Don't get me wrong, I think this is expensive and I would hope to get something exciting for less since it would not be my primary listening device, but who knows.

I am looking at a headphone based system again because, well, I got an iPod and ripped a fairly large library of music from my cds - about 15 Gigs of AAC@320kpbs - and I have really enjoyed listening through Senn px100s as a portable system.

I have a 2 1/2 year old and another one on the way (due April) and it is too loud to listen to my main system my son is sleeping during the day or night, too I am busy so I was hoping that a Headphone system would give me the opportunity to listen again for say an hour a day - more if it were portable.

I was hoping to find a system that could really enjoy to listen to in the quiet hours after the rest of the household has gone to sleep.

As I said I have no real budget constraints - except common sense - I'd like to have something I really, you know, like to listen to! I tried once in the past and I just failed to be pulled into the whole experience. Obviously I mismatched equipment since there are so many here so deeply involved and obviously quite a few who have heard some top notch equipment.

I live in a small town where a Circuit City is the only place that carries headphones so........you can see, there will be no auditioning.

mbratrud -

In order to buy a pair of the Grado HP-1000 series phones (HP- 1/2/3), you're going to need to buy used. E-bay or the used equipment market place on this site are the usual places to find them. They will run you in the low $1,000 range US. Your odds of finding them are not great, but I'd say every couple of months a pair comes up for sale.

The MDR-R10s are available new from Sony. Theme-Gifts in the US says they still have a pair or two. They charge about $4,200 US, and if they have them in stock you'll get them with a US warrantee and english language book. Audio Cubes and EIFL now list them on their sites. However you won't get these for a couple of months as Sony hand builds them to order. These will be Grey Market in the US, but are substantially cheaper than Theme-Gifts. If you don't live in the US the guarantee won't matter.

As far as the comparison between the R10 vs. AT 2002 vs. Grado HP-1000. I'd have to say the R-10 wins hands down. I've owned all three for substantial amounts of time (although I traded my Grado to Carlo a while back) and the 2002 isn't in the same league as the other two. The Grado is very good, but is uncomfortable to wear for long periods, for me. Additionally, the Grado is very neutral, while the Sony seems sweeter and more musical to me, while maintaining all of the other good high end characteristics. Just my two cents.

As far as amps go. Search the threads here. The Singlepower amps are getting good reviews, as are a number of other new brands. Unfortunately a lot of the commercial tube amps (Cary, Moth, Manley, etc.) seem to be better suited to higher impedence low efficiency cans like the Sennheiser HD 650.

If you want portable, a good match might be the new PPA from one of the builders that have recently sprung up. On the other hand, that is really Headrooms reason for being. Maybe you could just contact them and get something to try on a 30 day basis. If you like it, keep it. If not, send it back. No fuss, little muss, and not much bother.

If you want to know the current thinking on these or other can and amp recommendations, the search function can be your friend.