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Audio-gd Digital Interface - Page 14

post #196 of 4052


Didn't mean your review was an advertisement in anyway,  you are one of the honest ones.  It was all the posts linking to more and more reveiws that turned it into spam.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post


Hi regal,

 

While I agree that jkeny shoud stay out of this thread, I don't agree with you implying that my review of the modified Hiface is an advertisement thread.
 

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #197 of 4052

I agree whit you CURRAWONG!

 

Kingwa knows what he is talking about!

 

Jenkys, you should learn from the past. I read your post on diyaudio forum! I really admire your work whit hiface but please you need to be more open to other solutions that maybe play better or worse.

 

I know that Kingwa will install the best sockets (bnc).


Edited by GWorlDofSPACE - 7/20/10 at 7:00am
post #198 of 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post





I disagree,  perhaps you didn't notice a difference because your transport has to have a 75ohm output impedance ,  your cable 75 ohm, both the BNC connectors 75 ohm,  and then last there needs to be a 75ohm load infront of the digital receiver in the DAC.  If you don't have all these then obviously you won't notice a difference.   I went thru the trouble of doing this with my hiface (changing the connector and the pulse transformer) twice and I assure you there is a big difference when there are no reflections.  If you understand transmission line principles at all it would make sense,  but you are obviously not the authority here  (but I still envy your ears:)


I didn't say I didn't notice a difference  I just said that difference was not big. A change in the digital cable itself was more noticeable than changing the connectors.

 

I also don't pretend to be an expert in digital audio. However, If I had DIY skills, I would change the connector on the hiface to a true 75 ohms, I would change the BNC input on my DAC19 dsp into a 75 ohms Canare one and I would change the regular wire connecting the BNC input to PCB into 75 ohms (Prickley Peete suggested using 75 ohms Illuminati wire). My digital cable is OK as it is 75 ohms and uses 75 ohms BNC connectors (they don't have the white dilectric that 50 ohms BNC connectors have).

While I don't understand everything about the digital audio, I understand at least that it is important to keep the same 75 ohms impedance throughout the signal path. I understand that there might be differences even in the quality of the PCB lines.

 

In any case, what I wanted to express is that while there are always ways to make things "better", living with RCA or a poor BNC connector is not the end of the world (IMO).

post #199 of 4052

Ok, Currawong I'm not going to quote all you said but I'll just try to answer your points:

I think you were talking about me & Dan Lavry & yes I was criticising his answers to me as they didn't make sense to me but I did by the end of the discussion say that I thought that he was correct & that short SPDIF cables were in general better. Remember, it was he who started the whole attack, not me, I was only trying to learn something.

 

I have been banned from Jocko's forum but was given no reason! He accused me of stealing ideas from him or something along these lines (it was really a rant more than anything) & owing him some credit or royalties - I still don't know what he is talking about! I think he was upset about my exchanges with Dan Lavry because it was Jocko's notions of longer cables that started it all off & Dan was attacking this notion.

 

You make it sound like I caused a thread to be locked on this site!

 

My posts are of two types - either an attempt to understand something or an attempt to try to tell people what I understand. If I am butting my nose in where it's not wanted OK, I'm gone. I hoped the forum was for discussion & to learn things but I may be wrong.

 

The only reason I posted in this thread was because I saw mention of the 50ohm Hiface socket & I wanted to find out the details - I see Regal has tested the socket & found it to be 50ohms so let that be an end to it - I just wanted to hear this sort of info rather than just guess work - I'm happy & will post no more here!

 

As far as I'm concerned impedance differences (which can cause jitter) do matter & in all my tests so far it's the reduction of jitter that brings better sound. If you think otherwise that's Ok, I'm just posting what I have found.

 

If my sig now seems to contravene the forum rules I'll change it - what, take the link out?

 

Finally, I want to explain the reason I can't take peoples Hifaces for modification any more is because Customs have already stopped one from the US & charged me €50 on $200 customs declaration - if you want to take that risk OK? 

 

Final word: We are all here to try & get the best sonic experience form our equipment - I'm trying to do so by identifying what are the important issues  - you may disagree with me, that's fine. I think it is better to try & point out to the equipment manufacturers (like Hiface & audio-gd) if you think they have made a mistake so as it can be rectified. I don't subscribe to the notion that it's only a cheap piece of kit so anything goes. If you want to be better served by the manufacturers then it's best to try for the best achievable at that price point & a true 75ohm connector is achievable for very little more than the existing connector - it just takes some care! Otherwise we may as well just start chasing better sound with more expensive cable swaps - this is just a crap shoot & an expensive one too!


Edited by jkeny - 7/20/10 at 7:37am
post #200 of 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post

 

Jkeny,  I like you but folks must understand he is now a distributor of Hiface units (you can't send him a unit to be modded only buy new units through him)  so really has no business posting in a competitors thread.  I think AudioGD has more class than to post in Jenky's <cough> advertisemen <cough> I mean review thread.

 


audio-gd paid for this thread?
 

post #201 of 4052

Final, final word, honest, - Just in case you think I'm criticising Audio-GD  - I believe Kingwa is an innovative designer with some technically great looking products & his use of the Altera Cyclone II chip & his use of ACSS are very clever thinking & show his creative thinking. John Swenson on Audioasylum has said this about the DAC-19 DSP 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

All in all, given what I can read about it on their web site, this is probably one of the best sounding DACs ever made, and at a ridiculously low price. 

post #202 of 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post




audio-gd paid for this thread?
 

head-fi only protect sponsors?
 

post #203 of 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by cravenz View Post

And from my understanding, the DF version does not support 16/44 (reading the website) and if I wish to feed it a high-res signal, I will need the HiFace (or an equivalent). But yes, on the other hand, a lot of posts on Head-fi are misleading in that many consumers including myself are mislead to believe that there are major differences in the use of a product, but really, in all honesty, the difference is not as big as the words used lead many to believe. Many people outside Head-fi are unhappy with the way things are thrown about like FOTMs over here where many superlatives are used, and many things are claimed.

 

Also, I find it poor that people with the knowledge of all this are not actually sharing this knowledge and joining discussions where misleading information is thrown in, especially when they have read it and "know" it to be false. Again, the forum was meant to help people, meet, talk about like interests and to make informed choices.


16/44.1 is CD quality, so you might have gotten your numbers confused.  I've lost track, but I think all the DACs with USB have been updated to accept 24/96.  However, 24/96 is arguably flavour of the decade in audio circles and very arguably (with mathematics) not worth caring about.  

 

You're right about the "major differences" thing. After a lot of screwing around, differences seem to either be about different tonal balance or everything else (detail retrieval etc.).  The former are easy to make sound impressive, eg: stronger highs give the impression of more detail, or stronger bass more of a "fun" sound (my own word for it, which has started to infect the forums). Some of the improvements things give can be small, but over hours of listening, may improve one's enjoyment.  We are in a limbo where we can't quantify changes easily, especially in the case of digital, which either requires, as I understand it, a good oscilloscope, or, to measure jitter accurately, $20k worth of precision equipment.  The best that can be done is knowing whether we're chasing the proverbial dragon with purchases and make sure we don't impress people with unrealistic expectations and especially not with wrong info.  I'm sure I've been guilty of these things at one stage.

 

jkeny: I think you've brought up a lot of interesting stuff, and there is much positive you can contribute.  I think you're only problem is, you sometimes step over the line, so to speak, with the way you talk about things.  If discussions about technical issues turn into arguments, then it's time for people to step back and look at how they are expressing themselves. Few people think of doing this, however.

 

Now...back to Gear-fi... 

post #204 of 4052

so anyone's got his yet?


Edited by leeperry - 7/20/10 at 5:51pm
post #205 of 4052

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

16/44.1 is CD quality, so you might have gotten your numbers confused.  I've lost track, but I think all the DACs with USB have been updated to accept 24/96.  However, 24/96 is arguably flavour of the decade in audio circles and very arguably (with mathematics) not worth caring about.  


Heh, not the DAC19-DF version though, the DSP has however. But yes, I understand that there is minimal difference, but I'd like something that is bordering on future proof in the event I switch over to hi-res. Cos' I don't want to make another "big" outlay in the near future. That's how I look at it I guess.

 

Sorry 'bout the sidetrack.

 

Again, thanks for the input. Always appreciated.

post #206 of 4052

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post

This new Audio-gd digital interface seems very intersting. Kingwa asked me to try it and I accepted. I don't have the stock hiface anymore, so I will only be able to compare to the Teralink X2 and jkeny's modified Hiface. My guess is that it will fall somewhere in between. It will be intersting to see how close it can come to the battery powered hiface which is simply the best transport (CD or computer based) I have tried to date.

 


I'll be interested in reading your review slim.   Where will you post it?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post

audio-gd paid for this thread?

 


audio-gd promotional thread?

post #207 of 4052

IMHO these tester reviews will be worthless if someone doesn't run a bitperfect test.  God only knows what the DSP chip is doing.

post #208 of 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

 


I'll be interested in reading your review slim.   Where will you post it?

 

 


Hi upstateguy,

 

I will probably post my review in a separate thread. My "usb to spdif shoot out thread" has been closed for an unknown reason so I might have to start another one.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post

IMHO these tester reviews will be worthless if someone doesn't run a bitperfect test.  God only knows what the DSP chip is doing.


Hi regal,

 

In my personal experience, I have found that bit perfectness (in 44.1 and 48 frequencies) is not an issue with 24 bit capable transports. So far, all the 24 bit capable transports I have tried were able to pass HDCD data unharmed to the DAC.

 

The DSP-3 can do upsampling internally, so in that case it will definitely not be bit perfect.

I don't know about the dsp-3, but the dsp-1 works in 32 bits internally if my memory is correct.

In that case, any processing/rounding errors shoud fall under the less than 20 bit real world resolution of most DACs. Would that be audible? Hard to say without listening.

 

My main issue with the audio-gd digital interface and similar usb to spdif converters that use the Tenor chip (Teralink X2, Firestone Bravo...) is that they can't pass 88.2 without resampling to 96. (Please correct me if the audio-gd digital interface can pass 88.2)

I can understand why some people would want to resample from 44.1 to 96 (or 192). But doing 88.2 to 96 conversion (by the drivers or by software) is just a waste of processing power and a additional step where data could be harmed.

post #209 of 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post

Hi upstateguy,

 

I will probably post my review in a separate thread. My "usb to spdif shoot out thread" has been closed for an unknown reason so I might have to start another one.

 


Would it be possible to repost your reviews from the "usb to spdif shoot out thread" in the beginning of the new thread, so that information isn't lost? 

 

USG

post #210 of 4052


That is my concern as well, my sound card can spit out bit perfect + Full bit matching but it would be nice if I could one day replace my sound card with a transport such as this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post

IMHO these tester reviews will be worthless if someone doesn't run a bitperfect test.  God only knows what the DSP chip is doing.

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