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purrin said:

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That was the best part, you and pcf bringing all your stuff = lots of stuff = more fun.

I haven't totally given up on the LCD-2s yet. Just waiting for them to come down price on the used market (which will happen sooner or later). But because of the meet, my priorities have shifted. I absolutely loved pcf's HP1 and I'm considering SR-507s. I don't want to dip too much in my kids' college funds.​

 
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That's funny, we're both looking at the same headphones.  I know the HP2 would sound fantastic on a fairly modestly priced amp, but I'm suspicious that the reason the SR507 was the best sounding Lambda I've ever heard and had good bass response had a little something to do with a man named Frank   Anyways, we ought to move that to the meet impressions thread I suppose...

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Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif

...  You may hear some slight resonance coming from the grill material as I do on my first generation LCD-2.  Even if this resonance were excited by audio from the driver, it would not create the resonance character you are describing...
 
Anyway, just a suggestion.
 

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Could be that. Anyways resonance is probably a bad word, more like reflections within the enclosure cavity. I hear similar with T1 and DT880s, but not very open phones like the HD800s.
 

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purrin said:

Could be that. Anyways resonance is probably a bad word, more like reflections within the enclosure cavity. I hear similar with T1 and DT880s, but not very open phones like the HD800s.

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The thing is, that there is no enclosure cavity.  There is minimal acoustic damping on either side of the driver and that's it.  The only thing between the driver and outside air is the damping material and the outside metal grill.  There is no "enclosure" overhang on either side of the driver to cause such problems.
 

 


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Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 These resonances are visible in the waterfall plots if you examine them.  The "norm" that your ears are used to hearing when listening to headphones is contaminated with these resonances.  The complete absence of these problems in the LCD-2 is at first perceived by many as the LCD-2 being over damped...
 

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Or it could be that the LCD-2s are over damped.   i.e. you can have shocks in your car that are way too heavy-duty for the springs. The "wheel-bouncy" graph on such a over damped setup would probably look very good. It's a imperfect world, that's why shock valving always allows some overshoot and minor ringing.
 

kwkarth said:

The only thing between the driver and outside air is the damping material and the outside metal grill.  There is no "enclosure" overhang on either side of the driver to cause such problems.
 

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Maybe it's the grill itself? There's quite a lot of surface area on it. In any event, I want to make clear that whatever it is, it's minor and not nearly to the extent of the Beyers (meaning that most people are not going to hear it.)
 

I have always believed in the tap test.  I tap my finger on all my headphones and hear the resultant tone.  On every can, no matter where I tap - headband, grille, enclosure...the resulting tone was always consistent and identifiable.  My tap tests with the LCD2 was inconclusive...every part I tapped produced a different tone, each different surface induced a very different sound to another surface.  The HD650s produced a low tone thump no matter where you tapped, and the K701 a hi toned thump...even if you tapped on the wire frame, the sound is always the same, the D7000 a bassy thump.  The LCD2s are different in this regard and I can make no conclusion about cavity resonance via tapping.

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sp wild said:

I have always believed in the tap test...

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Stethoscope while music is playing or tapping - what I used for checking cabinets. Although this might be difficult for headphones.

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purrin said:

Or it could be that the LCD-2s are over damped. 

 i.e. you can have shocks in your car that are way too heavy-duty for the springs. The "wheel-bouncy" graph on such a over damped setup would probably look very good. It's a imperfect world, that's why shock valving always allows some overshoot and minor ringing.

 
Maybe it's the grill itself? There's still quite a lot of surface area on it. In any event, it's minor and not nearly to the extent of the Beyers.
 

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I would agree with you in theory, but in my experience damping orthos, overdamped orthos don't sound like the LCD-2, if anything it is underdamped.  The HE6 I thought was overdamped, which gives it that bright, fast sound but it lacks proper decay to my ears and sounds cold and dry.  I can get my Fostex to sound similar to the HE6 in that way by overdamping them. 
 
But I do hear some resonance with my LCD-2 or something like that.  It actually seems to be better since the meet and I'm not sure whether it was the way someone there fixed my loose headband assembly, which changed the way they fit, or if it was burn in.  I haven't spent enough time with them to say whether I'm still hearing it or not but I think it's better. 

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purrin said:

Or it could be that the LCD-2s are over damped. 

 i.e. you can have shocks in your car that are way too heavy-duty for the springs. The "wheel-bouncy" graph on such a over damped setup would probably look very good. It's a imperfect world, that's why shock valving always allows some overshoot and minor ringing.

 
Maybe it's the grill itself? There's still quite a lot of surface area on it. In any event, it's minor and not nearly to the extent of the Beyers.

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Yes, possibly, they could be overdamped.  I haven't taken the time to mess with altering the damping from stock.  Yes, since I haven't removed the grille, I can't say if it makes an audible difference on my sample.  I do believe the grill resonance has been eliminated, or at lease greatly minimised in the new grill design.  Reports from Audeze also indicate there is no excitation of grill resonance from the audio.  I can neither confirm nor deny this at this point. 

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purrin said:

Stethoscope while music is playing or tapping - what I used for checking cabinets. Although this might be difficult for headphones.

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Tapping the a resonant headphone is the same as using a stethoscope.  I just used a screwdriver to my ear and blade to a running engine/gearbox or differential to diagnose noises when without a stethoscope.  Microphonics right?

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purrin said:

Just my 2 cents:
 
Had a chance to hear the LCD-2 on a variety of setups at the Bay Area meet. Conditions were not always optimal, but I had a chance to get some quality time with them in the early morning and late afternoon. Maybe it's because of all the hype around them, but I was a little disappointed. They are not bad 'phones all at; in fact they are rather good. I actually enjoyed them my PWD/Peak setup (which I can't say for many of the other setups there.)
 
But if one of your criteria for headphones is resolution or the ability to reproduce low level details, the LCD-2s are not it.
 

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This is certainly not my experience in comparison with the HD800 or HE6 at the very least. The O2 is probably better at this respect but I've always considered it to be overall a step above the LCD2. 
 
What systems did you test the LCD2 with other than your own to arrive at this conclusion? 

After owning the LCD-2 for three weeks and then also hearing them on different setups at the meet, I can confidently say that they do not quite do it for me as much as I had thought. They are indeed excellent headphones, and I appreciate what they do well, but I think this forum may possibly be over exaggerating their sound quality. I may very well get criticized for these statements but I just wanted to let people know my point of view in case it helps those unacquainted with the headphones.
 
It's quite interesting how much this FOTM mentality, with the fact that there are about 5-6 people on this forum that repeatedly post on the 4-5 threads about these cans can really do to convince people these may be the be all end all of headphones.
 
It is difficult for me to say that the LCD-2s performed on par with the Stax Omegas or O2s, or even the 507 on FrankCooter's setup. Not only that but the HD800 and maybe the T1 and HE6 as well seemed to do be more to my liking than the LCD-2s. There is something about the cans being a little congested or lacking in the high end that makes the music sound veiled. I do think they are in the same playing field in terms of detail and resolution, but I hope that people aren't misleading everyone that these cans do indeed hold a higher status than the others.
 
I've seen some statements on here from some members that insist as fact that the LCD-2 are a step above the HD800 or other aforementioned cans. However, this is not necessarily the case- especially to my ears. Not here to bash the LCD-2, as they still are an excellent pair of headphones and I would own them as well if I had the money, but just warning others not to take the opinions of those that post every other post on this thread as the only opinions on the playing field. Much of the time, members of this forum, and of course including myself, can become a little stubborn with their stance on a particular headphone's status and it can skew the true opinions too!

 
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k3ct said:

What systems did you test the LCD2 with other than your own to arrive at this conclusion? 

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Five systems with quality time (quieter) on three. Because some of rigs belonged to vendors, PM me if you want the bloody details. But trust me, the PWD/Peak was not the limiting factor here. The LCD-2s actually had very good synergy with my setup - much much better than the super majority of the other setups.
 
I do want to re-iterate that I'm purposefully emphasizing the negatives and just being nit-picky. But I think you have to when comparing high quality phones such as the HD800 to LCD2. If it would make people feel better I can start crapping more on the HD800s.  I do have to say that I was pleasantly surprised this time around with the HD800s on epoc's rig.
 
But as epoc mentioned above, because of the FOTM mentality, the LCD-2s were a big letdown.

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purrin said:

Five systems with quality time (quieter) on three. Because some of rigs belonged to vendors, PM me if you want the bloody details. But trust me, the PWD/Peak was not the limiting factor here. The LCD-2s actually had very good synergy with my setup.
 
I do want to re-iterate that I'm purposefully emphasizing the negatives and just being nit-picky. But I think you have to when comparing high quality phones such as the HD800 to LCD2. If it would make people feel better I can start crapping more on the HD800s. 

 I do have to say that I was pleasantly surprised this time around with the HD800s on epoc's rig.

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Absolutely, you should b picky.  That's what all this stratospheric stuff is all about!  Just remember that what we hear is subjective and the variables are myriad.
 

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kwkarth said:

Absolutely, you should b picky.  That's what all this stratospheric stuff is all about!  Just remember that what we hear is subjective and the variables are myriad.
 

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As bilavideo said something to the effect of "wrestling among friends". Off topic, but if you haven't already, read that thread with bilavideo and me fiercy arguing with each other on whether cheap Grados can be modded to SR-325 level. I think some people thought we going to kill each other with our strongly worded disagreements (we never descended to name calling or anything remotely close) - that is until we let people know we were buds.
 
I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else with my strong opinions of the LCD-2.

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purrin said:

As bilavideo said something to the effect of "wrestling among friends". Off topic, but if you haven't already, read that thread with bilavideo and me fiercy arguing with each other on whether cheap Grados can be modded to SR-325 level. I think some people thought we going to kill each other with our strongly worded disagreements (we never descended to name calling or anything remotely close) - that is until we let people know we were buds.
 
I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else with my strong opinions of the LCD-2.

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No at all, no offense taken whatsoever.