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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 352

post #5266 of 10561
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans030390 View Post

Quote:


Huh? You can get the T50RP for $75 when they're in stock. Think of it this way...without mods, I probably wouldn't pay $30 for them. They sound awful. With mods, they have the potential to rival headphones costing $200-300+. I wouldn't even consider the M50 against a modded T50RP.

 



i'm a faint of the heart person when it comes to mods X(

post #5267 of 10561
Quote:
Originally Posted by proid View Post

Some thing i have just tried: the pad riser by food container and it didn't work very well, the sound is thin, bass is much lesser. I will post pic latter

 

Yes, just using the plastic riser without adding dynamat and paxmate will give you a thin sound, the plastic risers I showed in the pics clearly have added Response to the inside.
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post


my pair reaches the deepest sub-bass to the highest air frequencies. it can extend down to 20hz no sweat and reach all way up to 20khz. the midrange is very clean and natural sounding to my ears. i used my 240DF's as reference tuning my fostex. covering the vents seem to do no harm to the bass.


Each to there own, there are many variations to consider, the pads are probably the most defining factor in how the mods inside the cups will effect the sound. A good seal makes a world of difference. Not only that there are many variations and tastes, but our heads and ears are all different, this effects the way the sound penetrates through the headphones.

 


Edited by HDMan - 12/4/11 at 12:33pm
post #5268 of 10561
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post

 

Yes, just using the plastic riser without adding dynamat and paxmate will give you a thin sound, the plastic risers I showed in the pics clearly have added Response to the inside.
 

 


Each to there own, there are many variations to consider, the pads are probably the most defining factor in how the mods inside the cups will effect the sound. A good seal makes a world of difference. Not only that there are many variations and tastes, but our heads and ears are all different, this effects the way the sound penetrates through the headphones.

 


In fact, i use plastic riser with 1 layer of fatmat and 2 layer of paxmate as you can see in this picture:

 

pQZvI.jpg

 

It's exactly 29mm at the center and 15mm at the rear:

 

wvlJT.jpg

 

But i think may be the  sound is not right because i didn't have a proper seal. The plastic riser is too big, i can't proper put the pad on it, even using electrical tape

 

MsA6j.jpg

 

Can you post pics showing the back of your pads so that i can imagne how to put the riser on?

post #5269 of 10561
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post


Yes, just using the plastic riser without adding dynamat and paxmate will give you a thin sound, the plastic risers I showed in the pics clearly have added Response to the inside.

 



Each to there own, there are many variations to consider, the pads are probably the most defining factor in how the mods inside the cups will effect the sound. A good seal makes a world of difference. Not only that there are many variations and tastes, but our heads and ears are all different, this effects the way the sound penetrates through the headphones.

i know the pads make the biggest difference on a good seal. i just find using materials that were proven for acoustic treatment works best for me. rigid fiberglass and mineral wool has been proven to absorb reflections/resonance down to the deepest sub-bass. i know for rooms the thickness must be about 6'' to absorb down to 20hz and keep it flat but speakers wave lengths are much bigger. headphones are no different in most cases but the wave lengths are not very long compared to speakers so you can get away with much,much less for perfect absorption and reason why ''seal'' is very important as well. i think what most people use just stops mass vibrations not absorb them. absorption happens when the acoustic energy is transfered to heat by friction. that's what acoustic treatments suppose to do for perfect absorption. i don't think the other materials people using does this. i never saw any data showing it can actually absorb any type of acoustic energy.

you are right though about everyone is different and we have different opinions. i have my thing that works for and other people have their thing that works for them cause we all hear different and that's what awesome about the variations of mods out there for many things, not just headphones. it's fun experimenting.
post #5270 of 10561
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans030390 View Post

Quote:


Nice! Did he actually sell you a modded pair, or are you just borrowing them?

 


I had picked up a set of T50RPs about two months ago.  After a couple of attempts at modding, I was just not happy with the sound.  Luis (LFF) had been a lot of help providing suggestions, but I still couldn't get the sound the way I wanted.  So I asked if he would be willing to Parodox them for me.  We came to an agreement, and now I have them back and could not be happier!!

 

post #5271 of 10561

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim_j_thomas View Post


I had picked up a set of T50RPs about two months ago.  After a couple of attempts at modding, I was just not happy with the sound.  Luis (LFF) had been a lot of help providing suggestions, but I still couldn't get the sound the way I wanted.  So I asked if he would be willing to Parodox them for me.  We came to an agreement, and now I have them back and could not be happier!!


That's awesome to hear! 

 

post #5272 of 10561

For anyone that might have read my previous post on my most current modded T50RPs, I'd like to add an update to that. It's an idea I took from lokesen's KODA T50RP mod. Previously I had the back of the drivers completely bare (no reflex dot/tape) and the vents completely closed except a few mm of the bottom vent (no vent felt in place). For the back of the drivers on the KODA, lokesen used 3mm wool felt with a center square cut out as seen in this picture:

 

76d720c8_15.jpeg

 

I conveniently had this felt on hand to try out. It's not exactly the same. Mine is 75% wool and 25% fiber instead of 100% wool, and it might be slightly thicker than 3mm. It works great, though! I opened up the bottom vent slit completely (it's still covered with the cotton in the cups) as well. This configuration gives me about the same amount of bass, but it doesn't sound as bloated and is more easily tuned using the open vent slit. It helps bring out some of the mids and highs and provides a more coherent sound overall. The only real downside is that they take just a bit more juice to reach the same volume as before.

 

Don't get me wrong...this wasn't some dramatic change. My previous configuration didn't sound bad to my ears, but this configuration simply sounds more natural and coherent (like less pieces are missing from the puzzle). Like I said, though, these are just preliminary tests. It could be that this is actually worse than before! Figured I'd share it for anyone who is interested in trying something else out. Here's my current configuration (changes from previous version in bold):

 

 

1. Silverstone acoustic foam completely lining the cups (cut neatly, no draping, maximizing volume)
2. Felt removed from cup vents, covered all but the bottom slit in Silverstone acoustic foam. Leave that bottom vent slit open (covering it in cotton, step 3, is recommended)!
3. Filled the cups with 6 regular sized cotton balls (medical grade from CVS, if it matters). I completely teased these apart before stuffing the cups. It needs to be uniform, and it needs to cover everything, including the center post (which is covered in acoustic foam) and vent area.
4. Plasticine in the back of the driver baffle
5. Silverstone acoustic foam covering most of the plasticine
6. 3mm wool felt on the back of the drivers. Cut out a square/rectangle in the middle (matched up with the center square on the back of the drivers)
7. Felt removed from the ear-side baffle (keep protective mesh in front of driver), and just one layer of Silverstone acoustic foam covering the entire ear-side baffle. Leave openings for the screw holes, EQ hole, and, obviously, the driver.
8. 840 earpads. No stuffing in the backs or anything like that.
9. Cover the 3 vents you closed off inside with duct tape or electrical tape on the outside of the cups. For the bottom, open vent, leave it uncovered (cotton covering on the inside is recommended). You can close this up for your own tastes. I'm still experimenting with this, actually.

Edited by hans030390 - 12/4/11 at 6:43pm
post #5273 of 10561



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post


i know the pads make the biggest difference on a good seal. i just find using materials that were proven for acoustic treatment works best for me. rigid fiberglass and mineral wool has been proven to absorb reflections/resonance down to the deepest sub-bass. i know for rooms the thickness must be about 6'' to absorb down to 20hz and keep it flat but speakers wave lengths are much bigger. headphones are no different in most cases but the wave lengths are not very long compared to speakers so you can get away with much,much less for perfect absorption and reason why ''seal'' is very important as well. i think what most people use just stops mass vibrations not absorb them. absorption happens when the acoustic energy is transfered to heat by friction. that's what acoustic treatments suppose to do for perfect absorption. i don't think the other materials people using does this. i never saw any data showing it can actually absorb any type of acoustic energy.
you are right though about everyone is different and we have different opinions. i have my thing that works for and other people have their thing that works for them cause we all hear different and that's what awesome about the variations of mods out there for many things, not just headphones. it's fun experimenting.


Surely headphones operate in pressure mode at low frequencies, wavelengths don't really come in to play with the conditions that headphones operate. You are right about the seal, this is essential when operating in pressure mode.
 

 

post #5274 of 10561
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post



i'm a faint of the heart person when it comes to mods X(


 

I'm the nervous/careful/paranoid type as well, but the most common mods are pretty tame to be honest:  Slip the stock pads off and better ones on (optionally stuff some toilet paper or whatever between the felt part and the pad part), open up the cups, stuff some modeling clay in various crevices, apply some adhesive damping material like Paxmate, optionally apply Dynamat under the Paxmate, optionally mess with the felt on the bass port, optionally fill the cup with cotton balls, optionally tape over the vents, etc.  (Dynamat can be a little tricky to use without damaging the wiring, but fewer and fewer mods seem to be using it anymore anyway.)  Overall, these mods are nothing to be afraid of.

 

Some of the really adventurous people go the extra mile and do drilling, cutting, ripping, tearing, replacing the white felt on the back of the driver, etc., but the general consensus is that you don't have to do anything destructive or irreversible just to get a good sound out of these.  For instance, LFF's [secret sauce] mods are all reversible, yet his modded T50RP's apparently sound better than the > $900 LCD-2's.

 

Getting complete flagship-level quality like that might require a lot of patience, creativity, tweaking, or luck, but the general sentiment seems to indicate that you reach the mid-tier ballpark pretty easily with only the most common mods in around an hour (see this post for a basic summary and this wiki for specific mods).  By mid-tier, I'm referring to the $300-400 range, which includes the Denon D2000 and traditional giants like the Beyer DT770/DT880/DT990, Sennheiser HD600/HD650, and AKG K701.  The headphones in that range are simply a class above entry-level audiophile cans like the M50 and HFI-580, although bassheads might still prefer the HFI-580.

 

As others have said though, the T50RP doesn't sound very good stock.  The stock flaws can be largely alleviated with very simple modding, but that doesn't mean the flaws are so minor that you can just skip the modding part:  The stock bass is weak, the highs are rolled off, and the lack of damping and such creates resonances, reflections, etc.  If you're totally unwilling to mod, look elsewhere:  Almost any other headphone will be a better choice than the stock T50RP, unless you want deeply flawed headphones with only mids, mids, and more mids (actually, the mid-bass is pretty good in stock configuration too, but the sub-bass and highs are very rolled off).

 

If you want relatively balanced (or modestly colored) headphones, and you're at all willing to do some basic mods, I think the T50RP should be a much better value than the M50.  I haven't modded mine yet, so I'm not speaking from personal experience, but I haven't read anything that would suggest otherwise in the least.  (The T50RP costs less by itself, and it should cost about the same once you factor in Shure 840 pads, materials, etc.)  The HFI-580 is a somewhat more interesting alternative, because it's a totally different type of headphone from the T50RP.  The HFI-580's main draw is epic amounts of bass, and I'm not sure if the T50RP can get quite that bass-heavy or not.  Even if it can, it would probably take a lot of experimentation and creativity, given most people are aiming for relatively balanced headphones with their mods.  Therefore, the HFI-580 is probably a more reliable option if you're a basshead.  (In contrast, the T50RP is all about excellent mids, and the modding is about bringing the bass and treble up to the same level, while eliminating resonances/reflections/standing waves.)

 


Edited by SobbingWallet - 12/5/11 at 6:24pm
post #5275 of 10561

 

It's exactly 29mm at the center and 15mm at the rear:

 Actually its exactly 27mm, but I am sure I could fit 29mm easily.

 

I will post a more accurate description of a how to, with pics.

post #5276 of 10561

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF View Post

I wouldn't neccesarily say mine is better than the rest but I do have independent measurements...

 

Paradox: This looks way flatter than Tyll's graph, impressive. 

T50RP Paradox FR.jpg

 

Names TOTL headphone:LCD2?

nameless.jpg

 

Another namesless TOTL headphone:T1?

Anothernameless.jpg

 

This is an old post but I found it interesting.  Sorry for the interruption. 
 

 


Edited by deadhead12 - 12/5/11 at 12:40am
post #5277 of 10561
Quote:
Originally Posted by proid View Post


In fact, i use plastic riser with 1 layer of fatmat and 2 layer of paxmate as you can see in this picture:

 

pQZvI.jpg

 

It's exactly 29mm at the center and 15mm at the rear:

 

wvlJT.jpg

 

But i think may be the  sound is not right because i didn't have a proper seal. The plastic riser is too big, i can't proper put the pad on it, even using electrical tape

 

MsA6j.jpg

 

Can you post pics showing the back of your pads so that i can imagne how to put the riser on?



Ok, so I measured them, like 27mm to be precise.

 

Pic_1205_023.jpg

 

tape the front half first, keep the pad in its normal position.

 

Pic_1205_026.jpg

 

Now pull the back out to the edge and tape.

 

Pic_1205_027.jpg

 

 

One with a riser already in there.

 

Pic_1205_025.jpg

 

Riser clearly fits

(Notice how I have bent the metal rods inwards to create a tighter seal)

 

Pic_1205_024.jpg

 

Now pull the pad out.

 

Pic_1205_028.jpg

 

Bend the riser like so and insert.

 

Pic_1205_029.jpg

 

Let the edges fold out.

 

Now lift the pad around the edges and push in the riser.

 

Pic_1205_031.jpg

 

Finished.

 

Pic_1205_032.jpg

 

 

Notes:

 

For my personal head size and shape, I really needed to bend the metal rods inwards (after the pad mods), so that the pads tucked in under my ears nice and firm. Previously I was experiencing an inbalance in the L/R spectrum, a strange hollow feeling in the left, the right felt much more sealed. Now it's all good mate.


Edited by HDMan - 12/5/11 at 1:11am
post #5278 of 10561

@HDman: That's really clear and it help me alot, i have just done this mod and the pad seal very well that lead to very deep and tight bass, thanks so much! But i think it brighten the sound, and mid is thinner than before, not sure because i don't have another pair to AB.

Edit: bass is good but the mid is too recessed with  this mod, so i  came back to original cotton stuff under earpad. 


Edited by proid - 12/5/11 at 9:33am
post #5279 of 10561

Hi guys!

 

I just received my T50rp, sounds good without any mod but i've ordered the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro velour ear pad that i'm gonna use on them. 

 

But I need a small dac/amp to use from my Asus eee. Would Fiio E10 be a nice match? I like the option that it can be powered by the usb.

post #5280 of 10561

The T50RP needs some juice...

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