Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW!

mrspeakers · Nov 4, 2011 at 12:53 AM

Quote:

wdahm519 said:
Nope, I meant it had more airiness to it and a slightly larger perceived soundstage (small, but noticeable). Treble was pretty well balanced with the rest of the spectrum. The thing was, I think it had an airiness quality because of the thinner mids and highs.

EDIT:

Now having tried both Mrspeakers Cotton mod with electrical tape reflex dot, and BMF's idea of putting 1.5 layers of Transpore down with the "half walls" of tungsten (I used plasticine, and I also have the baffles loaded with plasticine) (I used FatMat instead of Dynamat too), I feel as though I prefer BMF's version more. Mrspeakers version sound very open due to the thin mids and weaker bass. While I think Mrspeakers mod brings out a lot of the great qualities in the highs the fact that the highs roll off so early with the T50RP's it kind of leaves it empty sounding. BMF's version gives me the natural mids that I always liked with a healthy amount of bass (that I may need to decrease in the future if its too heavy) with highs that sparkle.

In the end, Mrspeakers cotton idea end up sounding a lot like a thin dynamic driver that boosts highs and airy sound, while BMF's mods give a more full sound, thick sound. What you like more is up to you.

EDIT 2: Here's what my current set up is:

- SilverStone acoustic foam in cups, no foam on headband hanger
- 1.5 layers of Transpore tape on driver back
- Plasticine "half walls" around driver, in driver holes, and baffle holes (all the spaces you can fit it without overdoing it)
- Plasticine in the edges of the cups to give a good seal
- Stock bass port fabric, didn't mess with porting yet -- don't see a huge need to, no bleed.
- FatMat on ear side of baffles, covered with acoustic foam residue from when I removed it (there's not actually acoustic foam on there)
- Shure 840 Pads with one triple sized cotton ball rolled into a hot dog shoved in the back of the pad for angle

You didn't play with the port so your bass was wrong on the mod and or something else was going on too. The rp2 with the 840 or O2 pads has a 3db plateau from 26-200hz, and sounds really solid, more so than the LCD2.

PhaedraCorruption · Nov 4, 2011 at 12:56 AM

Woah, I was away from Head-Fi for the last little while and WOW this thread has grown alot since then, over 2000 new posts since my last read...

I'm sure alot of progress has been made, but if anyone in interested I'll again post my current config and instructions

[size=medium]
[size=medium] Here are some pictures and instructions with the current scheme of my headphones. Cheers to mrspeakers, joelpearce and leeperry for inspiration and ideas.

Any suggestions how I can improve this? As I said, I'm sure much progress has been made since I last touched these cans. I was told by an LCD-2 owner at a meet that these sounded like 85% of what the LCD-2s were.
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hans030390 · Nov 4, 2011 at 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaedraCorruption /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Any suggestions how I can improve this? As I said, I'm sure much progress has been made since I last touched these cans. I was told by an LCD-2 owner at a meet that these sounded like 85% of what the LCD-2s were.

I personally suggest uncovering the vents and putting the stock vent felt back in place (no acoustic foam covering it either). Take 6 cotton balls or so per cup, tease them apart, and place that evenly throughout the cup (covering the center post and vents covered by stock felt). That does a better job tuning the bass and helping with peaks in the sound than covering the vents up.

I'm also currently enjoying having the drivers completely "naked" with only a small square of duct tape used as a reflex dot on the center of the back of the drivers. Another difference is that I'm using the 840 pads (more comfortable and better sounding, IMO) with one layer of Silverstone acoustic foam on the front side ear baffle with cutouts for the driver, EQ hole, and screws. I don't stuff anything under the pads either. I don't like what that does to the sound. Not sure how much of a difference it makes, but I removed the acoustic foam from the top of the plasticine used in dampening the baffles.

Very natural sound, I think. Lacks sub-bass and punch, maybe a bit dry and analytical for my tastes. Doesn't always seem incredibly dynamic. But, everything else is done extremely well. Very fast and detailed, not too closed sounding. Nice mids and detailed bass. Really, just add a touch of warmth and some sub-bass, and I think these would be incredible.

Still not sure why my right driver seems to distort and buzz at certain times/at certain volumes. I hope it isn't damaged...

PhaedraCorruption · Nov 4, 2011 at 2:30 AM

Quote:

hans030390 said:
Quote:

I personally suggest uncovering the vents and putting the stock vent felt back in place (no acoustic foam covering it either). Take 6 cotton balls or so per cup, tease them apart, and place that evenly throughout the cup (covering the center post and vents covered by stock felt). That does a better job tuning the bass and helping with peaks in the sound than covering the vents up.

I'm also currently enjoying having the drivers completely "naked" with only a small square of duct tape used as a reflex dot on the center of the back of the drivers. Another difference is that I'm using the 840 pads (more comfortable and better sounding, IMO) with one layer of Silverstone acoustic foam on the front side ear baffle with cutouts for the driver, EQ hole, and screws. I don't stuff anything under the pads either. I don't like what that does to the sound. Not sure how much of a difference it makes, but I removed the acoustic foam from the top of the plasticine used in dampening the baffles.

Very natural sound, I think. Lacks sub-bass and punch, maybe a bit dry and analytical for my tastes. Doesn't always seem incredibly dynamic. But, everything else is done extremely well. Very fast and detailed, not too closed sounding. Nice mids and detailed bass. Really, just add a touch of warmth and some sub-bass, and I think these would be incredible.

Still not sure why my right driver seems to distort and buzz at certain times/at certain volumes. I hope it isn't damaged...

Thanks for the input,

I think you're absolutely right, as its stands now, the two largest tweaks that can be made is the material on the back of the driver and the amount of the vent covered. I'll mess around with those for sure, and I'll give cotton a shot as well.

DaBomb77766 · Nov 4, 2011 at 2:42 AM

Hm, are there any pads that significantly increase comfort? At a price that isn't totally ridiculous, that is. The stock pads kind of smush my ears and get rather uncomfortable after a few minutes...even after stuffing the rear part of the pads with a rolled up tissue.

The 840 pads really don't look like they'd be much more comfortable, even if they are softer...only way they would be is if they raised the cup a bit more to prevent my ears from being squished against the side of the pads and the front of the headphones. Do they help with that...?

snakeeater69 · Nov 4, 2011 at 3:45 AM

Ended up reopening this headphone more than I wanted but finally found what I want. Did Rasapants 2 mod with minor tweak: square loofah glued on on top of white felt, cup vent area not covered by Paxmate or Dynomat, 1 jumbo cotton ball, 3/4 tape on vent outside, Shure 840 pads. I'm not sure how well this measures compared to other headphones but I'm overall very happy with the results. To me it has the perfect amount of bass, mids, treble. Listening to music with headphone is so good. Watching blu-ray movie with is pure bliss. Sounds like at the cinema.

My first headphone to not distort sound with the thumping footsteps of dinosours from the movie Kong Kong. These will probably be my last headphone purchase for a long, long time to come. Thanks to you all for this very informative thread about modding these headphones, and a big thanks to bluemonkeyflyer for Paxmate and Dynomat.

wdahm519 · Nov 4, 2011 at 7:55 AM

Quote:

mrspeakers said:
You didn't play with the port so your bass was wrong on the mod and or something else was going on too. The rp2 with the 840 or O2 pads has a 3db plateau from 26-200hz, and sounds really solid, more so than the LCD2.

Well, closing the ports would lead to less bass and a more one-sided frequency response, so I doubt it was that. I've done a lot of mods by now and I kind of like to think I know what I'm doing. Perhaps I'll give it a try in the future, but BMF and I both got similar results so I have to feel like we were doing something right. It can also just come down to personal tastes. Your personal tastes and what you think sounds "solid" can vary extreme amounts to what my interpretation is of that. That's the whole idea behind having so many different mods -- so people can find the taste that suits them best.

EDIT: Does anyone own the LCD2 that has tried the "latest" BMF mod, the "less is more" mod? I'd like to know how their sound signatures compare - merely out of curiosity.

bluemonkeyflyer · Nov 4, 2011 at 8:46 AM

Several weeks ago I posted about trying different materials including <1mm of melamine, the foam puck from my T20v2, and some other stuff. They weren't bad but not as good as what works best for me.

Quote:

200poundsofamp said:
Here's Arnauds post if anyone's interested

edit: Another one.

That's pretty interesting. I know there's loose cotton or fiberfill or something in the back of the HE-500, guess there's a good reason for it.

Been looking through wikiphonia, several older orthos use some filler too. The YH-1000 uses dense fiberglass, the T20v2 and YH-3 uses synthetic foam.

Wonder if you could just put a thin piece of melamine foam over the back of the driver and fill the rest with loose cotton? Maybe a piece of felt as well if that alone doesn't cut it. Seems like it would soak up most of the backwave without taking up much volume and give you a huge soundstage.

bluemonkeyflyer · Nov 4, 2011 at 9:22 AM

I do. For me, IMO, IME, with My 2 cents, and understanding that YMMV - The "Less is More?" mod and the similarly configured "Transpore tape" mod using 2 full layers over the naked drivers provide a very similar sound signature as my LCD2's with an ~ estimated/best guess/approximate 85% to 90% sound quality using my Dacmini DAC/amp. What I have not been able to accomplish is to produce the vastly superior wide soundstage and airyness of the LCD2's open backs. BTW, to ME, the Transpore mod comes a bit closer than the stock white driver material in terms of treble extension. The midrange sweetness and bass complexity/texture are practically the same from both of these mod configurations and offer *almost* the same sound signature as my LCD2 with Dacmini. In addition, I *think* the SQ improved with 1/2 of a medium cotton ball teased apart as described in my post yesterday.

As always, the bottom line is that there is no guarantee that anyone else will hear either mod configuration the way I do, even IF using the same equipment that I use (MacBook Pro + Dacmini). Each person must try mods for themselfes and draw their own conclusions. I've said it before, measurements and graphs are interesting to see but if a mod configuration sounds good to me, it sounds good to me. If its measurements stink, it does not suddenly sound bad to me. The opposite also holds true. If a mod configuration sounds bad to me, it sounds bad to me; and if its measurements are stellar, it does not suddenly sound good to me.

Quote:

wdahm519 said:
Well, closing the ports would lead to less bass and a more one-sided frequency response, so I doubt it was that. I've done a lot of mods by now and I kind of like to think I know what I'm doing. Perhaps I'll give it a try in the future, but BMF and I both got similar results so I have to feel like we were doing something right. It can also just come down to personal tastes. Your personal tastes and what you think sounds "solid" can vary extreme amounts to what my interpretation is of that. That's the whole idea behind having so many different mods -- so people can find the taste that suits them best.

EDIT: Does anyone own the LCD2 that has tried the "latest" BMF mod, the "less is more" mod? I'd like to know how their sound signatures compare - merely out of curiosity.

drexman · Nov 4, 2011 at 10:35 AM

according to smeggy, the beyer gel pads are very good at only 37$ at B&H. LCD2 pads look even better but also more expensive at 80$.
i plan to buy the beyer gel pads for myself. i really hope they fit the t50rp easily.

smeggy
Member of the Trade: ThunderpantsTP1
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6,330 Posts. Joined 2/2004
Location: In a hamster cage, Seattle

Of the pads I've been investigating I can give the following...

Stax. Good isolation, very comfortable, good sound +, decent soundstage, very expensive.

LCD2 rev1 pads. Very good isolation, good comfort, very good sound, good soundstage +, moderately expensive.

LCD2 rev2 pads. visually a little different, sonically about the same to my ears, so as good as the Rev1.

Beyer Gel pads. Ugly as sin, extreme isolation, good comfort, good sound +, good soundstage +, relatively inexpensive.

Beyer leather pads. Good isolation, good sound, good comfort, difficult to fit, decent soundstage, relatively inexpensive.

Beyer pleather pads. Good isolation, decent comfort, decent sound, decent soundstage, relatively inexpensive.

Beyer Black or Silver velour pads. When modified offer moderate isolation, very good comfort, very good sound, best soundstage, relatively inexpensive.

Fostex pads. Very good isolation, good comfort, good sound, lesser quality construction, moderate soundstage, free.

Denon pads, good isolation, good comfort, good sound, decent soundstage, moderately expensive.

This is my opinion based on tests with my experiment set.
They all have some compromise somewhere and none are perfect, some are extremely well suited to specific needs though.

Quote:

dabomb77766 said:
Hm, are there any pads that significantly increase comfort? At a price that isn't totally ridiculous, that is. The stock pads kind of smush my ears and get rather uncomfortable after a few minutes...even after stuffing the rear part of the pads with a rolled up tissue.

The 840 pads really don't look like they'd be much more comfortable, even if they are softer...only way they would be is if they raised the cup a bit more to prevent my ears from being squished against the side of the pads and the front of the headphones. Do they help with that...?

bluemonkeyflyer, maybe the lcd-2 have better soundstage because of the earpads? did you try to put the lcd-2 pads on the t50rp? mrspeakers said the rastapants2 have the same soundstage as the lcd-2, i suspect mostly because of the stax o2 earpads.

Cortlendt · Nov 4, 2011 at 10:55 AM

BMF, do you think that mass damping with tungsten putty instead of plasticine removes comfort due to weight substantially?

bluemonkeyflyer · Nov 4, 2011 at 12:01 PM

Quote:

drexman said:
according to smeggy, the beyer gel pads are very good at only 37$ at B&H. LCD2 pads look even better but also more expensive at 80$.
i plan to buy the beyer gel pads for myself. i really hope they fit the t50rp easily.

bluemonkeyflyer, maybe the lcd-2 have better soundstage because of the earpads? did you try to put the lcd-2 pads on the t50rp? mrspeakers said the rastapants2 have the same soundstage as the lcd-2, i suspect mostly because of the stax o2 earpads.

You could be correct. I have not tried my LCD2 pads for two reasons: 1) My goal has been to get the best sound that suits me for < $100.00, and 2) I don't want to remove my LCD2 pads that are securely in place and have to deal with trying to put them back on.

Quote:

cortlendt said:
BMF, do you think that mass damping with tungsten putty instead of plasticine removes comfort due to weight substantially?

No.

Are they comfortable? Yes, they are - to me.

Are they heavier than mods without tungsten and Dynamat? Yes.

In a previous mod, I had Dynamat in the the cups under Paxmate, super mass loaded plasticine in the baffles as well as surrounding the drivers on the Rear side, and Dynamat surrounding the drivers on the Ear side of the baffles. Now, that was heavy! With all that plasticine, it was a bass monster that intimidated the other frequencies without closing 3 to 3.5 bass port slots.

If interested, I have an accurate set of electronic scales. I can weigh a stock set compared to my Less Is More set and my Transpore 1.5 Layer set. I can give you grams and ounces.

BTW, AcoustiPack Lite is heavier than Paxmate Plus. It tends to tear and break when removing it so it is harder to remove in complete pieces if you're trying to salvage it for another mod. I look forward to your mod report when you get your AcoustiPack Lite.

hans030390 · Nov 4, 2011 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

dabomb77766 said:
The 840 pads really don't look like they'd be much more comfortable, even if they are softer...only way they would be is if they raised the cup a bit more to prevent my ears from being squished against the side of the pads and the front of the headphones. Do they help with that...?

They are considerably more comfortable. They are thicker, softer, and have a wider opening in the middle. On top of that, they sound better! Completely worth the $20.

DaBomb77766 · Nov 4, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Hmm. Well, living in Canada is sure annoying when doing these mods.

I threw the beyer gel pads and the SRH840 pads into my shopping cart at BH and the total comes up to $76...I think I might just drop those gel pads.

ambchang · Nov 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM

So I got home after a trip with the stock T50RPs waiting, I tried them on, and shockingly, they sound pretty good. My modded pair (overloaded plasticine on baffles, dynamat and paxmate on cuts, bass port felt removed and covered 75% with nashua tape, monster cable, Sony 5K pads) sounds very close to the stock. Modded pair has better separation, better highs, smoother mids, but they are not drastic. The sound signature is still pretty similar (you can tell they are the same headphones).

I am not sure what I did wrong on the mods, as I really expected the difference to be much greater.

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