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post #3736 of 10601

Just caught up since I last posted. Boy, does this thread move fast! 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post

5. After (conservatively) literally 100's of individual mods to 4 sets of T50RP's and countless hours of side-by-side comparisons, I have concluded:

 

  * T50RP's can be improved

 

  * Rastapants 2 is very good but I like my BMF's more because they satisfy my preferences just as mrspeakers tuned his to suit his preferences.  There is no "right or wrong" way or "best" way. It simply comes down to personal taste, preferences, opinions, equipment, etc.  That is why you can read everything about modding and a multitude of opinions but you will never know which is better for you until you try them for yourself.

 

  * As good as I have been able to make them, and as good as they are for < $100 cans, modded T50RP's are no match for Shure SE535's and LCD2's. In my opinion, the LCD2's and SE535 are in another league with superior soundstage, deep-textured-controlled bass, clarity-space-and air, absence of bass bleed into the midrange, to die for mids, and transparent treble. SE535's give the LCD2's a run for the money. It is not surprising to me that the modded T50RP's (mine) have consistently been bested considering the SE535 has 2 bass an 1 treble balanced armatures per side and the LCD2 is open and 4 or 5 times the driver size compared to T50RP's.  If I had never heard the SE535's and LCD2's, I would be very happy with my modded Fostex. In fact, I am very happy with them for their low price and very good sound, once modded.

 

  * Simple is better.  The easiest mods and best bang for the buck, as far as I am concerned, are Paxmate in the cups, plasticine in the baffles, stock bass port felt intact, Paxmate covering 3 of the 4 bass port vents on the inside of the cups, the baffle vents open, and a Paxmate ring under stock ear pads. For the trouble of putting plasticine in the little holes around the driver, the effort was not worth the results to me. For $15, Shure 840 pads offer a good upgrade (except for the difficulty of putting them on) and keep the total modded price under $100.

 

  * Stiff felt is definitely better than limp felt.

 

  * Stock white driver felt, 2 layers of 3M Transpore tape, and 1 layer of stiff craft felt are too close for me to tell a difference.

 

  * Shure 840 pads are definitely better than stock, cost $15, and are a pain in the butt to put on - make this your last and final mod.

 

  * Music straight from my MacBook Pro vs Dacmini is definitely different, favoring the Dacmini by a wide margin. Still, if I had never heard the Dacmini I would be happy with the MacBook Pro, alone. Yes, it can drive the modded T50RP's.

 

  * Paxmate over baffle plasticine was not better than plasticine, alone, with my mods.

 


Thanks for all of your time and effort in doing these side-by-side comparisons. I've personally found them very helpful in figuring out where to focus my mods. It's been a great resource to the thread to have someone systematically testing each and every variable. 

 

BTW, as an aside, I found the 840 pads to be much easier to put on, if you roll the flaps over the earpads, put them into position, and then roll them onto the headphone baffle. This way, you have much less chance of the flaps getting stuck between the earpad and baffle. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspeakers View Post

I just tried it to be sure, and as I expected the RP2 does not work at all with the stock pads.  Huge midrange hump, no top or bottom.  

 

I had sent a note to Hennyo predicting exactly this when I found out he didn't have the O2 pads.  The phone is peaky and not balanced, with a midrange boost, though Hennyo said removing the ear side phone helped with this...  

 

For those who have the O2 pads, the first time you put them on, you'll hear a big drop in the opposite way, the mids get sucked out.  The RP2 was designed to flatten this.  It works pretty well with the 840, but the bass isn't as powerful as I'd like and the top doesn't sparkle, though the mids are good.  I'd say the 840 is at 70% and the stock pads are not worth considering.  Should be easy to fix the 840, but the stock pads won't work with this config.

 

So PLEASE be clear, if you don't have O2 pads, it's OK but not awesome with 840, and the stock is totally not recommended.  I would really only recommend this if you have the O2 pads.  The original Rastapants were tuned for the 5000 and 840 pads. 

 

Since multiple people seem to have tried this with the 840 or stock pads, my apologies if I confused people.  

 

EDIT: stock pads were totally in my head, 840 kind of close in.  O2 deep and wide.  VERY different.


This makes sense. When I switched to the 840 pads, the immediate thing I noticed was that the mids settled into the rest of the spectrum better, which made the bass a bit more commanding and the treble more upfront in the presentation. I can only imagine the O2 pads further increasing this gain, given that they move the drivers even a bit further away from your ears and possibly creating a better seal. On side by side comparisons to the LCDs, I'm detecting a slight upside-down U-shaped curve with the 840. The mids are more upfront in the presentation on the Fostex, while the LCDs have the mids planted more evenly with the rest of the spectrum. I imagine the O2 pads making these perfect with your particular tuning.

 

I've been listening to the (mostly) Rastapants 2 exclusively for the past couple of days, and I must say I'm thoroughly enjoying them. I agree with what you found in that the mids are slightly more defined. The articulating edges of the notes are slightly sharper than the LCD-2, although it's very close. I'd say if the Fostex is 100%, then the LCDs are about 98%. I'm assuming the difference is even a bit more pronounced for you because you're comparing to the Rev. 1. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdahm519 View Post

I think now we are getting the clash between a lot of people trying to have the best mod, and while we're not all competing, its hard to be passive about the fact that other people are getting stellar results with different configurations.

 

I'm really glad everyone has put so more work into this, and I get to reap a lot of the benefits just by reading about it and trying it on my own.  Thanks to all!

 

Yeah, I don't think this is the case at all. I feel that this thread for the most part is full of people who are encouraging of each other, and not about any sort of competition. 

 

It's always a sensitive subject when people share their hard work for the rest of the community to try and test, but people have been tactful in voicing any disagreements so far. Also, people have to remember that there are dozens of variables at play that may affect the sound, like gear synergies or even the listener's mood at the time, that don't even have anything to do with the actual mods. Or, maybe a certain specific mod doesn't mesh well with the rest of the mods in another person's headphone (which is why I try to disclose all of my mods when giving impressions of anyone else's ideas). That's why it's so hard to get many universal truths on these things etched in stone. But, still the testing and impressions is very valuable to the rest of the community. 

 

post #3737 of 10601

^Even this thread is not immune to preference :)

post #3738 of 10601

http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/6179/Pro_Audio_Recording/Headphones/Fostex/Closed_Back_Headphones.htm

 

Long mcquade is out of stock =(

 

B&H out of stock

 

if any ppl know where to get it online that ships to canada let me know 

 

thank you

post #3739 of 10601

What are the dimensions of the O2 pads?

 

Where is the cheapest place to buy them? (black)

post #3740 of 10601

BMF, please provide the feedback on the AcoustiPack material. It seems interesting.

 

By the way, when I've put raisers beneath the stock pads - 5mm thickness donut underneath whole pad and additional 5mm beneath the back side (back side flap barely fits) I've noticed some reduction in mids honk.

post #3741 of 10601

^Same here. With 1 of my cheap pad only - mid honk!, 2 of them, no more mid honk :)

post #3742 of 10601

Acoustipack is apparently the one of the best products for computer panel insulation, not sure how easy it would be to use with the stiff acoustic barrier though.

post #3743 of 10601

Since a few days ago, I'm thinking about making the enclosure to be as much air tight as possible, but I don't know what to use, because I want to be able to open the cups at any moment. For that reason the silicone is totally discarded.

post #3744 of 10601

My Pawstex are now modeling clay free :D

post #3745 of 10601
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post

What are the dimensions of the O2 pads?

 

Where is the cheapest place to buy them? (black)



http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAX-Earpads-SR-007A-Series-Pair-BLACK-Ear-Pads-/190585311703?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5fc511d7

post #3746 of 10601
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post

What are the dimensions of the O2 pads?

 

Where is the cheapest place to buy them? (black)



I didn't measure them, but fit perfectly, although are bit pain in the ass to mount.

 

The only place that I found was eBay. The seller is joycenetcafe or something similar. Just search for SR-007 pads in ebay and you will find him. Price for black is USD150.

post #3747 of 10601

I wanna know too... in the same boat... 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by balancebox View Post

http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/6179/Pro_Audio_Recording/Headphones/Fostex/Closed_Back_Headphones.htm

 

Long mcquade is out of stock =(

 

B&H out of stock

 

if any ppl know where to get it online that ships to canada let me know 

 

thank you



 

post #3748 of 10601

Has anyone checked with Moog Audio lately?  That's where I got both of mine in Canada, and they were in stock both times.

post #3749 of 10601

If you live near a Long and McQuade, give them a call or drop by. Even if the local shop doesn't have any in stock, they will try to source them from another store in the chain. (Mine came from Toronto to Calgary). According to the Website, they're in stock in Moncton, NB. tongue.gif  

post #3750 of 10601

 

Misunderstandings and Opinions Are Not Facts

 

The multi-quote function is not working for me right now so I had to copy and paste various posts.  I added my comments below each quote noted by indenting the text.

 

 

Quote: mrspeakers 10/7/11 post 3538

 

 

Summary (of Rastapants 2 Mods):

 

By adding FatMat to kill rear cup resonance, and an additional layer of Paxmate on the interior of the driver baffle, plus closing the vent and covering that and the center post with paxmate, the T50 has now passed the LCD-2 as my favorite phone.   These are not minor improvements over the Rastapants, these are serious upgrades that elevate this to a world class contender.

 

Thanks again to Hennyo for testing, LFF for being a sounding board, Smeggy, Sachu, Leeperry, Joelpierce, and all the other contributors who inspired this with great ideas that served as a spring board.  I hope that this design can truly be as enjoyable for anyone, and look forward to hearing feedback, and maybe other optimizations.

 

   I assumed you were asking for head-fi members to try your mods and give you feedback.

 

 

 

Quote: bluemonkeyflyer 10/8/11 post 3570

 

A "Re-Sounding" cheer for mrspeakers and his Rastapants v2 mods!  They look awesome and I look forward to making a set of my own to compare their sound to my evolving BMF.

 

 

Quote: mrspeakers 10/8/11 post 3577

 

With the O2 and 840 pads, the bass on these has more authority than the LCD-2.  It may be that you are not getting the bass because the stock pad has a very low air volume relative to the 840 and O2, but as I said, I have spent no time at all with stock pads. 

 

   I noted and understood there would likely be a difference in SQ without using O2 pads.  You seem to be saying that 840 pads also have more “authority” than stock pads.  So, I used the 840 pads that I had on hand.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Mrspeakers 10/8/11 post 3593

 

Anyhow, just loving these things.  I hope someone will do the full mod soon.  I really want to hear the feedback, feedback on partial mods is nice but not the full monty. 

 

   Again, noting I was not implementing the full RP2 mods by omitting O2 pads, I attempted to offer feedback as requested.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Mrspeakers 10/9/11 post 3638

 

 

I can't wait for someone else to do the complete RP2 mod and give feedback.  I'm pretty proud of these, so who knows, maybe I'm just kidding myself.  

 

   You have a right to feel “pretty proud” of your RP2 mods.  You made some innovative mods with excellent results for you and several others. You again asked for feedback.

 

 

Quote:

 

Mrspeakers 10/10/11 post 3665

 

A couple of things.  First, my mod is currently specific to the O2 pads.  There is a major difference in sound between pads.  The essence is that my mods were meant to be made entirely as I specified, except the dynamat is optional (but good). With stock pads, I would expect the mids will be too prominent, which you're still using.  The stock pads mostly cover the baffle so the paxmate isn't needed there.  Probably adding it will bleed bass into the pads and further exaggerate the mids, so having no foam will sound better.  Not so for the bigger 840, 5000 and O2 pads.  Different beasts.

 

If you still find the sound thin and you're using the pads, to restore a BIG sound, you'll need to open that vent (until you have the O2 pads) and take out the ear side foam.  This will boost the bass and mid bass, equalizing the sound.

 

   Again, I read and noted that O2 pads are required to get the full goodness from RP2’s.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Bluemonkeyflyer 10/11/11 post 3746

 

Just another guy's opinion...take it for what it's worth...my 2 cents...YMMV...

 

   I tried to emphasize that all comments that follow are based on MY opinions and my opinions may not be the same as yours or anyone else’s.

 

I took yesterday off to mod a set of T50RP's to mrspeakers' specs but without the O2 pads.  Today, I made my compairisons; in total, over 14 hours of modding and testing.  My objective has been to get as close as possible to LCD2's for under $100, so $150 Stax O2 pads do not factor into my goal.  

 

   Here, I again emphasized that my rendition of RP2 did not include O2 pads.

 

Dynamat is nasty stuff, hard to work, and very difficult to remove as you will see later.  It took me 6 hours to measure, cut, and place Dynamat in the cups, Paxmate Plus over the Dynamat, plasticine in the baffles/around drivers and Paxmate over that, 2mm stiff craft felt over the drivers secured with rubber cement, and changing out Shure 840 pads more times than I want to count - these are very difficult to put on the Fostex cups!

 

FWIW, I also compared "limp" felt, naked drivers, 1 and 2 layers of 3M Transpore tape, and 1 layer of 2mm stiff craft felt from Michael's.

 

My comparisons were made between my

 

   My intent, here, was to explain that I would compare my version of RP2’s assembled exactly as you described but without the O2 pads.] :

 

1. Rastapants 2 (with stiff felt - soft side down; Shure 840 ear pads, not Stax O2 ear pads)

2. Stock T50RP

3. BMF (vanity plates) with plasticine baffles, Paxmate cups, stock bass port felt, stock white driver felt, Paxmate ring under stock ear pads vs no ring with Shure 840 pads

4. Shure SE535 in ear monitors

5. Audeze LCD2 - v1, second revision of pads and cables

 

Chain:  MacBook Pro --> glass toslink to Dacmini --> Stock cables to respective phones 

 

Lossless media files :  Anna Maria Jopek-Upojenie; Diana Krall-My Love Is A Mountain Side, Dancing In the Dark, The Look of Love; Patricia Barber-Light My Fire, Too Rich For My Blood; Sade-Please Send Me Someone to Love; Rufus Wainwright-Slideshow; Radiohead-Jigsaw Falling Into Place, There There, You; Gorillaz-Dare, Clint Eastwood, Feel Good, Inc; Donald Fagan-Century's End, Babylon Sisters, Janie Runaway; k.d. lang-Wash Me Clean; Brahms 3rd Symphony 3rd movement; Bill Evans-Peace Piece

 

These tracks are challenging from bass to mids to treble consisting of jazz instrumentals; jazz vocals; alternative electronica, jazz-rock fusion, and classical.

 

Conclusions:

 

1. Stock T50RP aren't bad but they are held back by resonance and reflections.

 

2. Dynamat is a royal pain and not worth the effort.

 

3. Rastapants 2 is very good but does not suit my ears.  The sound is neutral but with veiled mids and highs; bass is very good, textured, and tight.  They have an obvious narrow soundstage/closed- in sound to my ears compared to all the other phones in this set of my comparisons.  This is not surprising to me since they are completely closed.  Obviously, I have not and will not try the O2 pads.  The excellent results mrspeakers achieved may be due to the synergy of his mods with O2 pads vs. different preferences, equipment, opinions, placebo effect, bias, etc...mine included.

 

   I point out that what you achieved may be better than my results because you used O2 pads and I used stock and 840 pads.  You previously stated that 840 pads have more authority than stock pads.

 

4. I prefer the sound of my BMF, as described, with their (to me) better clarity and wider soundstage compared to Rastapants 2.  So, I next removed the Paxmate and Dynamat over the bass ports, then tested and the result was improved soundstage and better mids/treble but with some bass bloom.  Next, I removed the Paxmate and Dynamat over the center cup compartments and the result was more improvement to soundstage but a bit more bass bleeding into the midrange.  The solution for me was to cover 3 of the 4 bass port slots with Paxmate (with the stock bass port felt in place) -  Problems solved (for me).

 

5. After (conservatively) literally 100's of individual mods to 4 sets of T50RP's and countless hours of side-by-side comparisons, I have concluded:

 

  * T50RP's can be improved

 

·      Rastapants 2 is very good but I like my BMF's more because they satisfy my preferences just as mrspeakers tuned his to suit his preferences.  There is no "right or wrong" way or "best" way. It simply comes down to personal taste, preferences, opinions, equipment, etc.  That is why you can read everything about modding and a multitude of opinions but you will never know which is better for you until you try them for yourself.

 

Here, I try to convey that my impressions are just that – impressions – that meet my preferences but not necessarily yours and maybe not anyone else’s, either.

 

  * As good as I have been able to make them, and as good as they are for < $100 cans, modded T50RP's are no match for Shure SE535's and LCD2's. In my opinion, the LCD2's and SE535 are in another league with superior soundstage, deep-textured-controlled bass, clarity-space-and air, absence of bass bleed into the midrange, to die for mids, and transparent treble. SE535's give the LCD2's a run for the money. It is not surprising to me that the modded T50RP's (mine) [“mine” noted here to emphasize that all the mods were made by me including my version of Rastapants 2 which is not the full mod because I did not use O2 pads as specified by mrspeakers. Also, as pointed out by Hennyo, I did not use plasticine in the cup outer rings; instead I used paxmate; so try both and draw your own conclusions.] have consistently been bested considering the SE535 has 2 bass an 1 treble balanced armatures per side and the LCD2 is open and 4 or 5 times the driver size compared to T50RP's.  If I had never heard the SE535's and LCD2's, I would be very happy with my modded Fostex. In fact, I am very happy with them for their low price and very good sound, once modded 

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Mrspeakers 10/11/11 post 3709

 

BMF, while I appreciate the side/side, I have said multiple times that my mod is currently ONLY tuned for the O2 pads.  If you don't want to buy them, groovy, and if you love your mod, excellent, but if you aren't using the O2 pads it's not a Rastapants 2.  It's something that will definitely have a different sound because the pads have a major impact.

 

   I do fully get it.  And it’s all groovy to me.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Bluemonkeyflyer 10/11/11 post 3710

 

   Edit:  I posted this from my iPhone and forgot to add the wink emoticon to show this is a little joke with no sarcasm or ill will intended.  I also overlooked your question about Paxmate under the ear pads.  I used a 3/4" donut under stock ear pads but had to remove the donut to get the Shure 840 pads to go on; and it was still difficult.  As noted in my previous post, the 840 pads worked better than stock by (I presume) better controlling the bass and clearing up the veil I heard in the mids and upper range.  I mentioned that mrspeakers' use of Stax O2 pads may account for the exceptional SQ he derived from Rastapants 2 that I could not try since I don't have these pads.

 

 

Quote:

 

Mrspeakers 10/11/11 post 3717

 

It's not that, if someone does a better job I'm happy to copy them.  However, when people make judgements on an improper implementation it frankly bothers me a lot that people who might have tried the mod never will because people got it wrong and judged a sound very unlike the actual design, and frankly really inferior.

 

   Since I am the “people” you are referring to, mrspeakers, I want to say that I tried very hard but clearly failed miserably to explain that my comparisons are mine alone, based on my opinions/biases, limited by the absence of O2 pads, and offered because you requested feedback. I attempted to offer my impressions for everyone’s consideration without judging you or your creation.  To that end, I fully failed.

 

   I apologize that my opinions (Not facts) are offensive to you. I have consistently encouraged everyone to try all mods for themselves and draw their own conclusions. I did not post my impressions/opinions to dissuade anyone from giving the RP2’s a full test for themselves. 

 

   Everyone:  Try mrspeakers’ RP2 mods for yourself!

 

    I am always open to learn from others. Although I tried to be meticulous and carefully follow your RP2 mods guide, I would be thankful if you could point out the errors I made resulting in a “frankly really inferior” and “improper implementation” of your RP2 mods – aside from Paxmate instead of plasticine in the outer cup rings and 840 pads instead of O2 pads, both of which I fully appreciate. 

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