If you can somehow get LAME and LAME VBR to work on your Mac there are more sophisticated stuff you can do, like for example changing the threshold for switching between JS and stereo frames in a JS encoding. (yes even JS tracks usually have plain stereo portions for when the 2 channels are so different that it's not profitable to encode in JS) I'm a bit out of date, but it seems that these days dm-presets use a custom NSMSFIX variable (was that the name?)

--mj -> NSMSFIX = 3 (? just some big number)
--nssafejoint -> NSMSFIX = 1 (much fewer JS frames)
A good setting that people have found for increasing bandwidth and maintaining quality at the same time: NSMSFIX ~ 1.2 (which is a lot closer to 3 than it seems, averages about half JS frames I think, whereas 1 would give <10% and 3 ~90%

What I find strange about the iTunes encoder is how it doesn't seem to go much beyond the minimum bitrate you specify, even when you ask for 'high' quality...

Oh, and you'd already mentioned John Coltrane...
[shouting waaay too loud from a mountaintop]
Jooohhhnn Collltrrraaane!!! Jooohhhnn Collltrrraaane!!! Here! Coolvij? COOOOEEEE!!!

This is getting way too complicated!

I am also wondering why high quality doesn't go far beyond the minimum on iTunes.

Do you mean min. bitrates in reference to the size of the files? That might be a function or limitation of the particular encoder you are using.

I'd like to know more about how mp3s sound out of good quality phones such as etys etc. Are they acceptable or are they just okay?

I set my minimum kbps to 160kbps with highest quality VBR. My mp3s are usually showing as 167kbps - 170kbps (I think that is the average bit rate of the VBR.) I thought high quality VBR meant that it would use higher bit rates (up to 320kbs) if it had to for complicated sections of the music. By looking at the average, I don't see it doing that, or atleast not too often. I could imagine these average bit rates for the low quality setting but for the highest quality?

What average are you looking at? Do you have an app. that analyzes the file, or are you looking at the readout on the player interface? I would think the readout couldn't respond quick enough. You can try a more demanding file such as heavy metal.

iTunes displays VBR mp3s bit rate as "170kbps (VBR)"

I'm still unsure if that is an average bit rate or what..

Yeah, that's some sort of avg. I wouldn't worry about it. The important thing is your own subjective preference for whatever setting you feel meets your requirements.

You can also try working out the avg bitrate of the file yourself using the raw file size and playback time. It'd be a bit off (header info, admin. info...) but not more than if your program is doing something wrong in its calculations...

Of course you also have to take into account what kind of music you're encoding. It's quite normal to get <200kbps average even on highest VBR settings if you're encoding classical.

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I tend to listen to mp3s more with my speakers, but I do listen to them on my HD600s quite often. 128k is fautiging and sounds like crap, 160k is fautiging and sounds very grainy, also bass performance is lacking here and below, 192k is much better but terrible for complex music (But for solo piano for instance, 192k mp3 isn't bad), 224k isn't worth the extra over 192k but 256k is, in most cases you get a fairly clean, decent imaging sound, but sometimes those nasty quantization noises still make an appearance. Also, presence is vastly improved over lower bitrates, and it sounds a good deal more natural, and 320k is on quite a few occasions completely indistinguishable to my ears doing double blind testing. When I say indistinguishable, it means I can't accurately determine the difference between the mp3 and .mac

As for my percentage of CD quality estimates -

64k - AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
96k - 15%
128k - 40%
160k - 55%
192k - 75%
256k - 90%
320k - 95%

If you are in dire need of saving space, if your player can play mp3s that aren't 44.1Khz, then try using 160kbps/32Khz, it sounds a lot better, much less quantization noise, of course you don't get good high treble resonse but 160k mp3s are poor when it comes to that anyway so why not cut it out so you don't need to hear it at all?

I mostly use Monkey's Audio to encode my own CDs, it is losless but the compression usually comes to somewhere around 600-900kbps.

tvhead--
you keep mentioning an iPod forum on the apple website. Could you please supply a link or page address or directions for getting there from other places on the apple website. I have looked all over the apple website and can't seem to find it.
thanks!
M.

moose.......go to the Apple homepage.....click on SUPPORT.....then click on DISCUSSIONS. The iPod discussion forum is the first one listed. HOWEVER.....I think you have to register first (it's free.) Hope this helps.

Moose,

What Joelongwood said.


Xevion,

I'm going to try that.. What do you think of vbr? Oh yeah, what is quantization noise?

Later on...
I just tried ripping some MP3s at 160/32khz.. It doesn't really save any space I don't think. And what sounds better about it? So I know what to look for, listen for rather.

VBR RULEZ!!!


160kbps fixes the bitrate. I think what he means is that a 160kbps 32kHz encoding sounds better to him than a 160kbps 44.1kHz encoding because the high-frequency sound, which for him can't be encoded correctly at this bitrate anyway, is completely lost in the 32kHz encoding, and that to him actually sounds better There's also the added benefit of having more bandwidth to encode the rest of the frequency spectrum, so even to someone who's stone deaf to the high-freq errors that the 44.1kHz encoding makes or anything above the freq. ceiling of the 32kHz encoding anyway, the 32kHz encoding is still going to sound better

But you can do better by specifying a lowpass setting. A 32kHz encoding would be roughly equal to a 16kHz lowpass, I suppose. You can experiment with the lowpass setting to find one that is low enough to filter out all the crap (if crap is what it sounds like to you) but high enough to not make the track sound dull. Usually you use a higher lowpass the higher the bitrate you use.

>> What is quantization noise?

Here's something I dug up in a jiffy, hope it helps (I bet not though, cause I'm trying to remember what it is myself )
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