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I have given up on trying to tell people how it isn't that easy to mess up windows as long as you exercise common practice. Periodic ghosting is what I thought was gonna work, but no, they are just too lazy and unmotivated to bring themselves to learn that little.

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I don't trust the windows update's video card driver suggestions, not as much as straight from Ati or Nvidia. On one occasion it managed to mess up my textures. Nothing a quick run of drivercleaner could not fix, just that I wouldn't be using it for something as potenially unstable and volatile as GPU driver. Same goes for getting analog-out to send output thru the wolfson dac on av710; you cannot get that done with just the driver set supplied by windows update. For most everything though, things work well enough. If I am dealing with a non-gaming machine, then I wouldn't have any issues with vga drivers either way.

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Thanks for the link, I knew about the security through obscurity thing, but now I have something I can shove in my mac elitists friend's face when he goes "oh, but OSX is secure... "

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Let's get the facts straight here, you were the one that attacked the people 'on the other side' and contributed to what you call a flame war (maybe you just wanted to start one). This is not the only thread I have seen you post something deliberately provocative, but that's fine by me. I hope you are at least getting some kick out of it

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So Mac by itself is not perfect. When you need to step outside its boundaries (gaming **cough cough**), it is immensely inferior to PC counterparts while costing up to a few times more. Not everyone likes to game on consoles. Dualbooting is very tedious, I would wager anyone, I mean anyone would prefer a VM for trivial tasks. Why bother with dualbooting when VMs could get everything you would have wanted? On my vista / 7 installations, I am free to run ubuntu / xp in my vbox whenever situation calls for it. Good luck trying to emulate that on your OSX My 7 RTM has an uptime of a few weeks or longer unless I have enough essential updates accumulated, or need to swap out / add hardware. Rebooting is a chore and time consuming, why bother?

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Not entirely sure about that, I dont' do much maintainig on my windows 7 box, certainly 1/100th as much time as I needed on my ubuntu just to get the damn tv card / samba share / VLC working right. I must wonder, just what do you do on windows?

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Sorry about the trouble you been having with windows, I guess they just can't make everyone happy. Lucky me, I never had so much grief with it.

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For every million that you quote, I am willing to bet there are couple more millions that would be happy with windows. Give them any variant of linux, and I am sure it won't take long for them bitch about it just as much, if not more.

That friend of mine is a diehard mac junkie, and we agreed to disagree on topics related to mac vs pc. I acknowledge he likes the mac interface better and vice versa, so all is fine. We still talk and joke about it to find out how we each arrived at our respective positions though, it does not take a flame war to do that.

Anyway, he is currently using the earlier MacBook Pro, and feels it is a bit sluggish for daily use and wishes for an upgrade. As a PC user, I find that hard to believe; why would a core duo fitted computer be insufficient for browsing on the web, doing some office work while listening to music? To be fair, he also sites inability to play HD movies without dropped frames as one of the reasons for upgrade, which is not Mac's or OSX's fault per se. I don't understand why he would wait for a clarkdale based MacBook refresh, when he could have taken that same money and built a very decent desktop and get another lappy a long while ago without suffering all this long.

windows is easy, nearly universal adoption, tons of 3d party apps, i like building my own rigs, AND, perhaps most important, it doesn't require you joining a cult, drinking koolaid, and living in steve jobs head ... furthermore that little mac s**t who does all the commercials leads people to believe that macs are some magic pill to one's e-life when the truth is quite the opposite ... a couple friends of mine have macs and even they gripe about woeful interoperability, frequent use of boot camp (which grew more frequent as they became comfortable with it (this was a plus for them actually)), lock ups and crashes, and, of course, high price tag

I use computer applications. It just happens that most of the apps I use are readily available on Windows XP.

I try not to interact too much with the OS at all.

OS wars are stooopid discussions.

Custom quad-boot desktop here,

1. Win XP Pro x64
2. Win 7 Pro RTM
3. Mac OSX 10.5.4
4. Ubuntu 9.04

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It's called a task scheduler. Use it?

I'd also like to know what you're scrubbing and how often. I'd say a wipe of registry (which takes seconds), spyware (overnight), and a defrag (also overnight) once a month is more than enough in a modern Windows environment (Vista or W7).

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Haven't you had dependencies break after an update, or had trouble getting WPA2 to work properly? How about lack of hardware support and shoddy drivers . . . for example any ATI card?

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I doubt that was directly Microsoft's fault. Are you sure it wasn't a badly made driver, or application? Why is it that Microsoft is to be blamed for code they did not make on a regular basis by people?

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Sure you are. You have yet to prove the OS was directly at fault for any of your grief. You have yet to eliminate other variables from what I've seen. Any time I had a BSOD I could trace it back to something I did, bad software, or a hardware failure.

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That means you know something about Linux which has nothing to do with Windows. Hence saying you don't know enough about Windows to keep it running may very well be an apt judgment of your knowledge. Also your argument requires me to accept your experience as intelligence or wisdom on the matter. I've seen people, some with degrees for the matter, do things wrong for years. As such I'm not willing to grant you any benefit of a doubt on the matter.

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Windows is like a race car using manual transmission that needs oil changes regularly. Mac OSX is like a commuter car you take ten miles to work everyday and that's it.

Both work, but one does have a performance edge surely.

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They've done more than enough by developing standards for computer usage that others can merely hope to accomplish. Whether you believe it or not you benefit from them in the market no matter what OS you use.

My xp computer hasn't froze, crashed, etc. ever. I keep it on for months at a time. The only time I ever shut it off or restart is for the occasional update, blowing out dust, adding new hardware, etc. BTW, you can schedule antivirus scans, defragmenting, etc.

CPU:Intel E8400 c0 w/ Zalman CNPS9500AT
Motherboard:EP35-DS3R Rev. 2.1
Graphics Card:8800 GT 512MB w/ Thermaltake DuOrb
Memory:Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2 800 Cas4
Hard Drive:4x Seagate 300GB
Optical Drive:2x Samsung SH-S202J DVD-RW
Power Supply:Antec NeoHE 550W
Displayell 2005FPW 20.1" S-IPS Panel
Case:Antec P182
Sound Card:X-Fi Platinum (Asus Essence ST soon)
Speakers:Logitech Z-5500 (Taking suggestions)
Headphones:Icemat Audio Siberia ($100-300 replacement soon)
Mouse:Logitech G500/MX Revolution
Mouse pad:Steelseries SP
Keyboard:Logitech UltraX/diNovo Edge
Operating System:WinXP x64/Win7 Pro RTM/Ubuntu 9.04/Mac OSX 10.5.4
Other 1: Scythe Kaze Master Fan Controller
Other 2:Trendnet TEW-643PI Wireless N PCI Adapter

... plus ... i betcha couldnt do this as a mac for $1200 ...

Less than 3 months until 2010.


Nope. Still sticking with Windows.

Macs seem like throwaway devices? Especially the imac. It wouldn't be too bad if the motherboard was accessible and user replaceable. I re-use bits in my computers for newer machines.

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Agreed on updating drivers through Windows Update. I always manually download and update my drivers, but for the average user it's nice being able to update them right inside Windows.

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Oh man do I love Sun VirtualBox. I don't actually use it to run any applications from other operating systems, I have an XP virtual machine to run "ancient" games like Alpha Centauri. (which doesn't have windowed mode either, but VirtualBox does!)

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And the nice thing is that defragging happens automatically in Vista/7 during pretty obscure hours, like 3am *looks at the clock* err... I should be going to bed.

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You mean the "logic board" don't you?

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In my humble observation, I don't think too many people buy iMacs these days; rather, it is MacBooks that are becoming more and more prevalent. They stand relatively a better chance against non-macs than their desktop siblings do since

1. it is nearly impossible to build your own laptop even if isn't a mac, and when you do it isn't all that cheaper or practical

2. most people don't game on laptops or expect to do other serious tasks. macs might be just good enough for that

3. people tend to care more about looks with laptops as they are exposed to the rest of the world, and the whole mac affair seems to be a fashionable thing to do these days. There are other manufacturers on the PC side that charge you more for 'better' looks (e.g. sony)

Since I am one of those that don't follow the whole i-pod fad either, so you can count me out I am merely stating that with laptops, they are a tad bit more competitive. Still, I don't like the OS and the hardware is waaay overpriced.

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And then they'll be sorry when everyone else has the exact same laptop and they have to buy something different to look cool, edgy, and different again.

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well, I guess the idea is to be different from us unenlightened PC fools, not amongst themselves

From what i see, people use windows because:

- Windows is pre-installed on most of PCs in the market
- PC system can be built/customized easily
- Much more applications for this OS than Mac or Linux

I tried many OS such as OS X, Linux Redhat (the first day it comes out) and Ubuntu. Honestly i see no reason to leave windows for what i do: games, music, overclocking, office work... the most important thing for me is that i can find every application i need in windows platform but not with Mac or Linux. Driver for high end hardwares is another big problem for Linux (Mac? oh no )

I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate and for me it is the best OS now in term of compatiblity, stability and i simply love its interface.