[SP Wild]

Quote:

If HD 650 : 480p and $1000 headphones : 1080p then I have to try $1000 headphones someday. >_<
 
I'm rather skeptical though. Calling the HD 650's "mid-fi" seems ridiculous. 

Believe it.  I never believed it until I tried.  Just to reiterate, it still was the HD650 that ignited my passion for headphones, it still is astounding for it's asking price.

 

[brokenthumb]

Quote:

If HD 650 : 480p and $1000 headphones : 1080p then I have to try $1000 headphones someday. >_<
 
I'm rather skeptical though. Calling the HD 650's "mid-fi" seems ridiculous. 

I agree I need to try the LCD 2 (1080p).  I wouldn't have even bothered with the 650 (480p) if there is that huge of a difference between the two.
 
I was thinking the 650 would be more like a 1080p Panasonic Plasma and the LCD 2 more like a 1080p24 Pioneer Kuro.

 

[Satellite_6]

Hopefully the modded T50RP's can get me halfway to $1000 headphones because I can't afford them! Oh this will never end, I love it too much. 

 

[jsplice]

Hmmm.  So what could we say is something of 576p quality?  I'd probably consider the D7000s 720p.
 
It's weird though, I just got my 650s today, and I'm sitting here listening to them, but I'm so used to the D7000s, that periodically I have to do a reality check when I think "where is this midrange coming from?" 

 

[idletime1213]

Quote:

If HD 650 : 480p and $1000 headphones : 1080p then I have to try $1000 headphones someday. >_<
 
I'm rather skeptical though. Calling the HD 650's "mid-fi" seems ridiculous. 

480p and 1080p is largely untrue. The LCD2 is NOT twice as good as the HD650. I wouldn't even say it's 30% better.
 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Hmmm.  So what could we say is something of 576p quality?  I'd probably consider the D7000s 720p.
 
It's weird though, I just got my 650s today, and I'm sitting here listening to them, but I'm so used to the D7000s, that periodically I have to do a reality check when I think "where is this midrange coming from?" 

I can audibly discern between a 720p headphone and 1080p....but visually, it's damn near impossible. I'd take a 720p plasma with outstanding contrast ratio and higher refresh rate over any 1080p LCD tv...with greyish blacks and far lower resolution when things are actually moving on screen.

 

[Wapiti]

Quote:

I agree Digital-Pride.
 
So for all those years before the new high priced models came out everyone was listening to low mid-fi headphones and didn't realize it?

No, they were listening to one of the best dynamics in their day.  Since then the HD600 and HD650 have been superseded by newer, better models.  They are still as good as ever, but happens to now be better available.  I have both and still enjoy them, but also have better toys.
 
The primary point, however, is that for $300 I do not expect top of the line packaging.
 

 

[brokenthumb]

Quote:

I can audibly discern between a 720p headphone and 1080p....but visually, it's damn near impossible. I'd take a 720p plasma with outstanding contrast ratio and higher refresh rate over any 1080p LCD tv...with greyish blacks and far lower resolution when things are actually moving on screen.

I agree, I would take the plasma with the higher contrast also.
 
Staying with the tv analogies, I wonder what res the LCD-3 is going to be then.  4K resolution FTW!
 
 
 
Getting back on topic though, I've had my 650 for nearly a week and have enjoyed every album I've listened to.  I haven't heard the older 650's but the newer 650's are not laid back at all.  These are amazing headphones! 

 

[MickeyVee]

I had a chance to auction the LCD2's at a Head-Fi meet this summer. Played through the same system.. my Matrix Mini-i in DAC mode with a modded Little Dot tube amp (can't remember which one), both headphones were awesome. The LCD2 probably came out on top but there really wasn't the difference you'd expect given their prices. (definitely much less than 30%)
It really made me reconsider purchasing the LCD2's.  My next step will be to add a Schiit Lyr to my system (already purchased tubes to roll) and then decide.  If I do decide to get the LCD2's, it will be a luxury, not because they're significantly better.  To me, that says a lot about just how good the 650's are and that they really do scale up with good supporting gear.
 
Quote:

480p and 1080p is largely untrue. The LCD2 is NOT twice as good as the HD650. I wouldn't even say it's 30% better.
 

 

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

Hmmm.  So what could we say is something of 576p quality?  I'd probably consider the D7000s 720p.
 
It's weird though, I just got my 650s today, and I'm sitting here listening to them, but I'm so used to the D7000s, that periodically I have to do a reality check when I think "where is this midrange coming from?" 

See, that extra midrange is not extra resolution over the D7000, but the tonal balance is different.  I feel the D7000 is getting pretty close to 1080p in the upper mids and treble definition.  The mid in the D7000 is probably high definition also, but it is masked by cup resonances (think stock T50RP - also 1080p but masked by cup resonances - analogy being a screen that has poor reflective qualites), the cup resonance is masked by the bass volume, everyone knows the mids on the D7000 is recessed, and know one seems to know exactly why.
 
I would take a good CRT standard definition over a poor LCD 1080.  But that doesn't change the fact that the poor LCD 1080p is more resolving.  Think of contrast, blackness and refresh rate as cup colorations in a headphone.  The T50RP is a 1080p with poor cup colorations, the HD650 is 576p with outstanding CRT display.
 
Think of 1080p on the state of the art Pioneer plasma KURO as what differentiates the HE90, 009, LCD3 etc from the current flagships.
 
The only reason I bring this up, is because of the, frankly, false information out there implying that spending outrageous amounts on amp and dacs would yield anything more than a minimal improvement in the resolution capability of the HD650, which is fundamentally inhibited by its transducer technology.  Most people here considering upgrading dacs and amps for the HD650 already have gear that is able to drive the latest flagship transducers "sufficiently" enough to render the HD650 significantly disadvantaged even driven by a 10,000K amplifier and a half million dollar dac.
 
Upgrading is a disease, at least let the disease play out in the right sequence.  I suppose I can go into the K701 thread to say the same thing, but my passion is in the HD650 and I share a passion with you guys here. 

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Well, it's only been a few days but I think Mr Stinky and I are going to part ways.
I saw the HD 600 on Amazon and I've decided I need to order it.
 
I think the HD 600 is going to be my true calling.
HD 650 is OK sound-wise, but I think I am seeking more (for less).
*sniff*
 
Such a short relationship...
 
 

I wouldn't be so quick to sell the 650s. You're only going to have to buy them again later when you discover that the 600s don't have enough bass for modern tastes. 
 
Sennheiser knew what they were doing when they upgraded the older 600s to the 650s.
 
BTW, I keep all my headphones sealed in large zip-lock bags, in a drawer.  The boxes are a non issue.  Put the box away and forget about it.
 
What is concerning to me is that you found the 650s to sound bright...... so here's a question for you: can you EQ your 650s to sound the way you'd like?
 

 

[Satellite_6]

Well I definitely agree about DAC's and AMP's. Someone has a $1k headphone? I'm jealous, but I wonder how much better they really are. Someone has a $1k amp? meh. 
 
The HD 600's have plenty of bass! HD 650's are too boomy. 

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Well I definitely agree about DAC's and AMP's. Someone has a $1k headphone? I'm jealous, but I wonder how much better they really are. Someone has a $1k amp? meh. 
 
The HD 600's have plenty of bass! HD 650's are too boomy. 

Unless it's a Gilmore design.  I like my Woo3 and I like my M^3 but my Gilmore designed GS-1 is noticeably better.

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

[...]
 
I would take a good CRT standard definition over a poor LCD 1080.  But that doesn't change the fact that the poor LCD 1080p is more resolving.  Think of contrast, blackness and refresh rate as cup colorations in a headphone.  The T50RP is a 1080p with poor cup colorations, the HD650 is 576p with outstanding CRT display.
 
Think of 1080p on the state of the art Pioneer plasma KURO as what differentiates the HE90, 009, LCD3 etc from the current flagships.
 
The only reason I bring this up, is because of the, frankly, false information out there implying that spending outrageous amounts on amp and dacs would yield anything more than a minimal improvement in the resolution capability of the HD650, which is fundamentally inhibited by its transducer technology.  Most people here considering upgrading dacs and amps for the HD650 already have gear that is able to drive the latest flagship transducers "sufficiently" enough to render the HD650 significantly disadvantaged even driven by a 10,000K amplifier and a half million dollar dac.
 
Upgrading is a disease, at least let the disease play out in the right sequence.  I suppose I can go into the K701 thread to say the same thing, but my passion is in the HD650 and I share a passion with you guys here. 

 
Good post. The display analogy is a good one. No amount of upgrading can bring the HD650's technical capabilities to the level of something like the LCD-2. Does that make the HD650 any less engaging? IMHO, no.
 
Anyone wanting to pour thousands into elevating the HD650 above its capabilities should rightfully be advised to consider upgrading to the next tier of headphones. I don't think anyone has that intent here though. This is the HD650 Appreciation Thread after all, and I'd wager the majority of posters here are mostly content with what they hear. Some have identified areas of improvement though that may make the experience more complete. When there's a clear bottleneck in a chain, I don't think it's a disservice to advice a sensible upgrade as long as its understood that refinement will be the outcome, rather than a transformation. The market is saturated with quality, affordable components. Not everyone can justify a $1000+ expense, and it'd be obnoxious to respond to every question with a suggestion to just upgrade to the LCD-2/3, HE-500/6, HD800, Stax etc.

 

[SP Wild]

 
Quote:

 
Good post. The display analogy is a good one. No amount of upgrading can bring the HD650's technical capabilities to the level of something like the LCD-2. Does that make the HD650 any less engaging? IMHO, no.
 
Anyone wanting to pour thousands into elevating the HD650 above its capabilities should rightfully be advised to consider upgrading to the next tier of headphones. I don't think anyone has that intent here though. This is the HD650 Appreciation Thread after all, and I'd wager the majority of posters here are mostly content with what they hear. Some have identified areas of improvement though that may make the experience more complete. When there's a clear bottleneck in a chain, I don't think it's a disservice to advice a sensible upgrade as long as its understood that refinement will be the outcome, rather than a transformation. The market is saturated with quality, affordable components. Not everyone can justify a $1000+ expense, and it'd be obnoxious to respond to every question with a suggestion to just upgrade to the LCD-2/3, HE-500/6, HD800, Stax etc.

Agreed.  I just think it is possibly wiser for anyone saving dollars for an amp and source upgrade, say for example - a 500 dollar amp upgrade and a 500 dollar source upgrade, is wiser to put that money into savings for a better headphone.
 
Perhaps nobody is advocating the above scenario, but it is, more often than not thought about - if not, then you should be.  Its in the nature of the hobbyist and misplaced information is easily found to support the above scenario, if not in this thread then in another.
 
Also a lot of people tend to spend on sidegrade headphones that offer nothing more than a different tonal balance and no real extra resolution, when they have already identified that more resolution is what they are after.  Me personally, I think the HD650 is on top of the heap in its segment, because I like the balance and would take the HD650 over the D7000 for musical pleasure.