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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 859

post #12871 of 18277
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Can someone who has owned both the HD650 and HD600 tell me if the HD600 can be EQ to have as much bass as the HD650?

 

From what I have read they are essentially the same headphones just marginally different, with the HD600 having slightly less mid bass and slightly more upper midrange and upper treble....

 

I was thinking of getting some HD600 as I found the HD650 a bit too warm and slow for me, but I would not want any less bass than the HD650.
 

find a silver cable for the hd650....beerchug.gif

post #12872 of 18277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

find a silver cable for the hd650....beerchug.gif


rolleyes.gif

post #12873 of 18277

i recently own both of these cans...

i wanted abit more bass on the hd600,

and i want alittle more bone to the 650.

the silvercable solved my problem n that ended the service of the hd600 in my home.

post #12874 of 18277

One could always try a brighter amp for the HD650, too. The Schiit Valhalla, which is only slightly bright, made my HD650 sound far more like my HD600 in treble than I had heard it previously. At the same time, it did not sacrifice bass. In the end, I still prefer the more neutral HD600 but I could see some people really liking the combo. 

post #12875 of 18277

What I want to know is if the HD600 can be EQ to have the same bass response as the HD650, considering they are pretty similar. Not so much the mid bass but more the bass below about 80hz

post #12876 of 18277
Quo
Originally Posted by pez View Post

Well...now that we shall de-escalate that cable conversation, I have a question:

 

I'm not looking for a terribly expensive cable for my HD 650s, but rather one that just looks a bit better.  I mean, I like the stock cable (the thickness is even nice, compared to the HD 600 stock cable), but for instance; I like the red for right indicator on the HD 600 cable, and even braided cables look nice.  Really I'm just looking for an aesthetically pleasing cable for my HD 650s :).  Any recommendations are welcome :).

Try this one pez (sorry if it's a bit of a long address I'm not technically savvy) : 

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.TRS0&_nkw=F%2FS+*+Oyaide+*+HPC-62HDX+Headphone+Cable+for+Sennheiser+HD650+&_sacat=293&_from=R40

 

 

 

post #12877 of 18277
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebobbilly View Post

http://www.norseaudio.com/

 

Most handsome cables I've seen to date. Tad pricey but the quality looks unreal.
 

 

Not taking orders on top of not showing me any prices = meh....plus their wooden design piece looks hideous to me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by calipilot227 View Post

 

Best value for your money: Headphonelounge/Chris_Himself cables.

 

I keep hearing about him...How do I go about contacting him persay?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post

I read so many good things about these headphones and may actually buy a pair tomorrow. Can someone confirm that HD650 indeed has a "neutral" sound signature?

 

They're 'more' neutral compared to things like Beyer DT770s, Grado (SR60, 80, 325, etc), but not really compared to the HD 600.  If you want absolute neutrality, or something close to it, the HD 600 is where I would point you.  Things produced very well, and other things that benefit from a cold and analytical sound signature sound very nice on it, but it detracts from being able to pair well with other music that doesn't match those qualities.  For me, it's only good for around 10-15% of my library, so  IMO, it's a 'utility' pair of cans.  Much like the Beyer DT 770s...but I have a lot more music that does me some justice in keeping them, though, since the HD 650 has a wonderful bass extension, they are finding very very little use lately.

 

Also, make sure you go with RazorDogAudio if you go new.  $400 brand new.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Can someone who has owned both the HD650 and HD600 tell me if the HD600 can be EQ to have as much bass as the HD650?

 

From what I have read they are essentially the same headphones just marginally different, with the HD600 having slightly less mid bass and slightly more upper midrange and upper treble....

 

I was thinking of getting some HD600 as I found the HD650 a bit too warm and slow for me, but I would not want any less bass than the HD650.
 

 

I'm sure it's possible, and I tried a small amount of tweaking with it, but I was unsuccessful.  Though, I make no claims of being an EQ genius.  From my experiments with it, I would gather you would need a rather large-banded EQ and make very subtle, and effective changes to it.  In the end, it might be worth it to go another route.  Maybe some Beyers.

 

I find the HD 650 just as fast as the HD 600.  In fact, I didn't find either one to be slow.  This could be my amp as well (Asgard 2).  The HD 650s really are just a bassier version of the HD 650.  As a result the mids and highs are put ever so slightly into the background.  I listen to a lot of fast music, and coming from Grado, I wouldn't say there's really a difference in the speed.  I will hook the Grados up again later to confirm this for you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

i recently own both of these cans...

i wanted abit more bass on the hd600,

and i want alittle more bone to the 650.

the silvercable solved my problem n that ended the service of the hd600 in my home.

 

Which silver cable are you referring to exactly?  How much did you pay, etc.?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

One could always try a brighter amp for the HD650, too. The Schiit Valhalla, which is only slightly bright, made my HD650 sound far more like my HD600 in treble than I had heard it previously. At the same time, it did not sacrifice bass. In the end, I still prefer the more neutral HD600 but I could see some people really liking the combo. 

 

Yeah, I think this is why I like the HD 650 so much.  They sound very nice with the Asgard 2.  I find it to be a bright amp as well...along with the Magni that I tried.

post #12878 of 18277
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ear-Wax View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Let me preface this post, I honestly don't mean to offend anyone who spends their hard earned money on third party aftermarket HP cables but I don't understand why anyone would want to...

 

I work for the largest media broadcasting company in Canada in the broadcast engineering department and long before that I learned that the most important thing in a signal cable is shielding. Oxygen free copper as as good a conductor as it comes for audio applications. Virtually all aftermarket cables are a placebo for "Audiophiles" and nothing more. All top HP manufactures know this and design their stock cables to match their reference designs for optimum performance.

 

Spending crazy amounts of money on after market HP cables may give buyers the impression (or illusion) of improved SQ but realistically they just paid too much for something they had in the first pace.

 

But I digress, it's your money and if you feel that a $100 or even a $1000 HP cable gives you better SQ then all the power to you. Marketing is a powerful tool and made many a snake oil salesman rich.

 

David Hannum once famously said: "There's a sucker born ever minute".

 

 

Watching the Video of Axel, the head Sennheiser at engineer, listen to a pair of HD800's with Toxic Cables at the London meet was really interesting. Even he was convinced...

Nobody else picked up on it? The head Sennheiser at engineerwink.gif Good onebeerchug.gif

post #12879 of 18277
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post

Well...now that we shall de-escalate that cable conversation, I have a question:

 

I'm not looking for a terribly expensive cable for my HD 650s, but rather one that just looks a bit better.  I mean, I like the stock cable (the thickness is even nice, compared to the HD 600 stock cable), but for instance; I like the red for right indicator on the HD 600 cable, and even braided cables look nice.  Really I'm just looking for an aesthetically pleasing cable for my HD 650s :).  Any recommendations are welcome :).

 

I'll plug BTG Audio again...

 

http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#!/~/product/category=2609076&id=11546463

 

http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#!/~/product/category=2609076&id=11559114

 

The first one is copper (which will need the 650 connectors added), and the second is SPC (and has the correct termination included in the price)

post #12880 of 18277
Quote:
Originally Posted by muxamed View Post

 

No it doesn't have a neutral signature and that is it's strength wink.gif

 

CosmicHolyGhost: Stock, and with some amps, the midrange is a bit fuller than usual, which gives tonality a realism that can be surprising. Also, voices for example can be startling in realism.  Some other headphones give a more distant sound and a female voice may have something somewhere in its frequency range that degrades the sense of wholeness and reality.  Of course, there are many newer headphones that I haven't heard yet.... 

 

Yet, with a better cable (full range and flat like Cardas Clear or Clear Light... yes, Cardas has become neutral), by which I don't mean the silver stuff and small producer cables for which I can't attest, the sound becomes extended and more detailed, and it approaches neutrality rather quickly.  I also remove the foam sheet (used a thin plastic window screen just to keep prying fingers and pinnae out), which helps quiet a bit.  I like the balance of detail and realism.  Not a detail freak if it costs that gestalt reality.  (just returned from spell checking gestalt.)

 

Amps make a difference too.  On my Arrow 4G, the gain has an effect. One gain setting is a bit too full in the midrange, too much of a good thing. Other settings sound flatter, almost ideal.  (Treble differs, so I picked the one that left voices undamaged... more important than extension).  The RSA SR-71B is even better. 

 

Hmm... coffee is taking effect.  Not as concise as muxamed.  


Edited by Stoney - 7/7/13 at 10:56am
post #12881 of 18277

PS: I'm skeptical of most small producers of cable, for the HD650 in this case.  There really is a lot of benefit from decades of research and high-tech materials with high-tech manufacturing and termination.  

 

For an example, watch this animation of Cardas Ear Speakers... near the middle, they zoom in on the tiny "Clear Light" cable, then show the minute, detailed design.  This is exactly the cable I use on my HD650. Cut open any other cable... imagine what you'll see.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX_kLvOB0c8 

And the cable alone, the single-channel interconnect version: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhAGDWTj2uE

 

BTW, f you are interested in why good qualityi shielding is required for MUCH more than noise immunity, check this out. Shielding creates a fixed impedance and isolates the signal from the environment which, as George demonstrates quite obviously and convincingly here, can affect the signal considerably, even massively.  Full explanations, quite interesting. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhobsHs-_o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yaOUrULYP4

 

You will never find that from a small producer—microscopic air dielectric, multi-lay counter rotated multi-stranded and insulated micro conductors, and such.  Cardas spent decades eliminating issues like glare in the upper midrange back in the 80s on some models and the warm signature which has been eliminated with Clear and other recent models.  Thankfully, Clear is not expensive to produce compared to older cables, so price actually has gone down.  

 

These to me are perfect for the HD650, in every respect I can think of... and I'm a jaded and critical listener.  Whether freq response, imaging, timbre, detail, body, absence of negatives on any instrument... consistency of quality. It makes the stock cable (at least my ca 2007 version) sound, well, fluffy and foggy.  

 

Having said that, there are many small producers who have, by trial and error perhaps, come up with nice cables.  I'm using a Moon Audio mini-mini interconnect and very happy.  I used the copper version (never had a good experience with silver yet... too bright and zippy).  "Blue Dragon V3 Portable Mini Cable"


Edited by Stoney - 7/7/13 at 11:28am
post #12882 of 18277

You can go into as much theory as you want, but the question is... Can you tell the difference in a blind test?

 

Maybe this question makes me look silly, but from what I have read and tried myself, cables make no difference.

 

You cannot rule out "psycho acoustic" reasons until you test it blind and consistently get it correct... But I guess if you hear a difference then it is real.


Edited by nicholars - 7/7/13 at 11:28am
post #12883 of 18277

You are quite right to ask if it makes a difference.  

 

Blind testing is for another forum. Rest assured that anyone who hears the difference will buy based on what they hear.  

 

PS: the above has nothing to do with theory.  It is shown experimentally.  And developed iteratively.  Being myself an engineer/physicist in acoustics, an "experimental acoustician," I recognized the validity of George's continuous improvement since I first met him in the mid 1980s, the start of his business.

 

That is not to say small producers can't hit a home run, just that—given that I can't audition them—I trust the product I've heard get better each year, and the development proces which I would aspire to have followed were I doing what George has done.  

 

As usual, everyone is entitled to their choices.  And, if it works, it works. 

post #12884 of 18277

Well you have the qualifications and experience more than me, but I have never heard any difference, although I have not tried £180 cables and probably never will because the headphones only cost about 30% more than the cables...

post #12885 of 18277

That's certainly rational....

 

Some don't hear it for equipment limitations, 

or perhaps ear-brain differences 

(for example, I have trouble interpreting 

speaking if there is noise too, but I can hear

small instruments inside a blaring orchestra), 

or just not caring as much (my brain seems to

care about sound, from a young kid). 

 

My "qualifications" were just to open the possibility

that another person with "qualifications" could 

use that knowledge to reach opposite conclusions...

so the real test is in the listening.  Although I have noted

many folks opening their minds if they understand that

there is in fact some science behind it. And I don't

like my friends being called charlitans when I know

otherwise. 

 

Besides, I was pissed off due to more serious stuff, 

and so I didn't give much patience to another 

"I say you're wrong, it's impossible" newbie.  

My bad.  


Edited by Stoney - 7/7/13 at 2:01pm
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