[TheAbyss2022]

I don't think there's really an issue to be resolved. Using the XLR to RCA cable is likely the same as using the RCA outs. A balanced output typically has a higher voltage output relative to single ended as there are two amplifying devices, the purposes is to cancel common mode noise. Because there are two amplifiers, you also get a higher output impedance, sometimes even higher distortion. Usually the balanced out is taken to sound better, but that's because it is louder. When level matched, it's likely the sound quality is the same. But if you wanted to convert the balanced to single-ended without the cable method, a transformer is one way to go about it. But you are adding a reactive component to the signal path to achieve that, which probably isn't worth the result IMO.

My suggestion for people who have DACs that have both RCA and XLR outputs is to use RCA outputs for single-ended amplifiers and XLR outputs for balanced amplifiers.

The only reason I have brought it up is because the Topping D90 is designed to run its best through balanced and apparently performance is lost when using the single ended mode?

 

[L0rdGwyn]

The only reason I have brought it up is because the Topping D90 is designed to run its best through balanced and apparently performance is lost when using the single ended mode?

Oh where did you read that? If you feel strongly there is a big performance gap between the two when level matched and want to use the balanced outs with Aegis, then I'd go with the transformer balanced to single-ended conversion personally.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Oh where did you read that? If you feel strongly there is a big performance gap between the two when level matched and want to use the balanced outs with Aegis, then I'd go with the transformer balanced to single-ended conversion personally.

I may be tripping on this issue as AudioScienseReviews does not mention anything about RCA vs XLR performance on their review of the Topping D90. I may recall some Youtube reviews mentioning that performance is best through XLR but this may be nonsense?

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I may be tripping on this issue as AudioScienseReviews does not mention anything about RCA vs XLR performance on their review of the Topping D90. I may recall some Youtube reviews mentioning that performance is best through XLR but this may be nonsense?

It might be, there's a lot of misinformation out there as far as what balanced is and is not. I would be very surprised if you weren't happy with Aegis using the RCA outs. I'll see if I can find any info on RCA vs XLR in the D90 when I'm home later today.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Would a converter box resolve that issue? and can I just buy any converter box or do higher priced units have better performance?

I have some experience in the converter realm, though it involved a speaker amp, not DAC.

Circa 2017 my main system was single-ended/RCA interconnects straight through, starting at the DAC (MHDT Labs Orchid, including power sub & powered speakers). Then I switched to passive studio monitors, and for those I got a gently used, well regarded class D amp, the Wyred 4 Sound ST-500. Like many class D amps, the ST-500 allowed input connection via RCA or dual 3-pin XLR ICs. The rub was W4S strongly recommended XLRs for best sound.

This put me in a quandry, which I resolved by picking up a well-reviewed, used studio component: the Aphex 124A box; it cost ~$70, a 2-way SE-to-balanced/balanced-to-SE converter. I got a decent 8' set of XLR cables and set it up using the SE-to-balanced side of the box. It worked like a charm. The box was rather transparent, hard to tell if sound of it in-line difference from an RCA cable straight from DAC to ST-500. And finally it hit me: I have an add'l component + a set of 8' XLR cables in-line here -- what if all that was unecessary? I contacted Wyred 4 Sound and asked the question I should've asked at the start: is it feasible to connect RCA ICs to this amp using adapters? If so, will that sound better or worse than XRLs + converter>

Their reply was interesting. It turns out that amp's signal path via XLR inputs was somewhat more direct and per the mfr, more sonically transparent than RCA inputs. But using any well-made SE-to-balanced adapters w/an RCA IC into the amp would provide 99% of the SQ of true XLRs straight in. I got the adapters, set up with those, and the sound was so good that I stayed with that arrangement for years.

I realize this is different from concern about whether XLR or RCA outputs of a DAC will sound best. But this experience still applies: which output sounds best really depends on the design of the DAC. I've read some balanced DAC manuals where they say (in essence) "Don't use the RCA outputs unless you have no other choice." But some mfrs will admit it makes little if any difference:

• Example of the latter is my Metrum Onyx. I've tested the sound of XLRs out vs RCAs out to a couple headphone amps that accept both inputs. I really couldn't hear any difference
• Plus the side benefit of a DAC's RCA outputs is lower voltage output than the XLR output, which typically put out 2X or more the voltage of the RCA outputs. That can introduce challenging gain issues in the system

Maybe you could find an Aphex 124A somewhere in the Milky Way Galaxy and test this for yourself....

 

[TheAbyss2022]

It might be, there's a lot of misinformation out there as far as what balanced is and is not. I would be very surprised if you weren't happy with Aegis using the RCA outs. I'll see if I can find any info on RCA vs XLR in the D90 when I'm home later today.

"2.1V or 2.6V on its RCA output and 4.2V or 5.2V on its XLR output. If you want a nicer performance with your power amplifier, use the higher voltage output and call it a game."

Looks like its just a power difference as expected.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

"2.1V or 2.6V on its RCA output and 4.2V or 5.2V on its XLR output. If you want a nicer performance with your power amplifier, use the higher voltage output and call it a game."

Looks like its just a power difference as expected.

Yeah the difference there is just going to be where your listening volume is on the potentiometer. A 4-5V output is pretty hot, so it's going to get pretty loud pretty early in the potentiometer's rotation. A "nicer performance" doesn't really mean much, assuming the amplifier's input sensitivity is less than 2V (which is the case for most integrated amplifiers) you'll be able to reach peak power output with either connection. But of course you won't use the vast majority of that voltage, it's going to be attenuated by the potentiometer either way!

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Yeah the difference there is just going to be where your listening volume is on the potentiometer. A 4-5V output is pretty hot, so it's going to get pretty loud pretty early in the potentiometer's rotation. A "nicer performance" doesn't really mean much, assuming the amplifier's input sensitivity is less than 2V (which is the case for most integrated amplifiers) you'll be able to reach peak power output with either connection. But of course you won't use the vast majority of that voltage, it's going to be attenuated by the potentiometer either way!

Thank you, I can now buy this amplifier with a clear conscience I will try RCA with my Cayin HA-3A tonight to see if there is any differences.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Thank you, I can now buy this amplifier with a clear conscience I will try RCA with my Cayin HA-3A tonight to see if there is any differences.

Just remember because of the output voltage differences, if you just do it back and forth swap, the XLR is going to sound better because it is louder, got to match those levels!

 

[mattiastomas]

Thank you, I can now buy this amplifier with a clear conscience I will try RCA with my Cayin HA-3A tonight to see if there is any differences.

I've been using the DIY Aegis with RCA outs from my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and it sounds amazing. Its not going to sound bad coming from RCA.

 

[Quenya]

Would there be any issues using the somewhat hot RCA output of a Holo May (2.9Vrms) with ZMF Aegis?

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Would there be any issues using the somewhat hot RCA output of a Holo May (2.9Vrms) with ZMF Aegis?

No, none at all!

 

[Toonartist]

If it's any use to anyone with concerns over voltage from your DAC. The VEGA G2.2 I have has the option of either 2v or 6v. I've tried both and there's no issue with either. I currently use 6v and still have plenty of control lower down.

 

[Pharmaboy]

clear conscience

(an unfamiliar concept)

 

[Njychen]

Does anyone know how long the warranty period is? Will it be serviced by ZMF or Cayin?

Thank you.