[jamesjames]

I can't listen to headphones without using Crossfeed since I started using that option with my RME, it allows me to listen for hours without any fattique.

That's been my experience too.

 

[Whazzzup]

Well I opt to go bareback.

 

[piglet]

Well I opt to go bareback.

 

[shabta]

I haven't heard all the different implementations of crossfeed, but many of them substantially change the bass response. Sometimes that's even a good thing. Jan Meier wrote about this bass effect someplace years ago. He has implemented different strategies to mitigate this, but in the end it is changing the bass response. Crossfeed is a type of eq.

Headphone designs are optimized without crossfeed. And so the effects of crossfeed are not something that headphone designers think about too much.

In general headphones are like taking hallucigenic substances, they are pretty trippy. They create an artificial in the head type experience, which crossfeed only mitigates but doesn't change the essential nature of headphone listening. It just gives a different sort of trippy listening experience. Somethings are perhaps more natural, but it still isn't like listening to speakers in a room or a symphonic orchestra in a hall.

Yet, if I want to hear all the way deep into the mix, and have absolutely pin point imaging, it's hard to beat an HD800S.

 

[piglet]

Of course the use of crossfeed is entirely something for people to make their own decisions in life about, like so many things.

My suggestion is that people might like to try it if they have not. It is not just something for historic recordings. I think that often it goes a significant way to remedy issues that occur with the headphone "superstereo" effect.

I use crossfeed about 90% of the time. I use it with the HD800S headphones. The HD800S have famously wonderful imaging capabilities but they can't overcome the "superstereo" effect.

If you like superstereo, then great, enjoy it. I have to say that the word superstereo does sound rather cool in a 60s kind of a way perhaps.

There are different crossfeed implementations by different engineers. The crossfeed on my recently acquired Meier Audio Corda Soul Mk II is really quite superb actually, however I will write about that in greater length when I do my review of that DAC/amp.

 

[Whazzzup]

I like it

 

[shabta]

Of course the use of crossfeed is entirely something for people to make their own decisions in life about, like so many things.

My suggestion is that people might like to try it if they have not. It is not just something for historic recordings. I think that often it goes a significant way to remedy issues that occur with the headphone "superstereo" effect.

I use crossfeed about 90% of the time. I use it with the HD800S headphones. The HD800S have famously wonderful imaging capabilities but they can't overcome the "superstereo" effect.

If you like superstereo, then great, enjoy it. I have to say that the word superstereo does sound rather cool in a 60s kind of a way perhaps.

There are different crossfeed implementations by different engineers. The crossfeed on my recently acquired Meier Audio Corda Soul Mk II is really quite superb actually, however I will write about that in greater length when I do my review of that DAC/amp.

I have an earlier version of Meier's crossfeed implementation. He gave a three level switch to address the problem with bass. On the corda soul I would guess, as he used the HD800S in it's development, the results with the HD800S are excellent. Look forward to your review.

OTOH I am someone who doesn't get fatigue from headphones w/o crossfeed. I have yet to hear an implementation that I would use in any or all circumstances. But it's definitely something people should try and make up their own mind.

 

[jamesjames]

Of course the use of crossfeed is entirely something for people to make their own decisions in life about, like so many things.

My suggestion is that people might like to try it if they have not. It is not just something for historic recordings. I think that often it goes a significant way to remedy issues that occur with the headphone "superstereo" effect.

I use crossfeed about 90% of the time. I use it with the HD800S headphones. The HD800S have famously wonderful imaging capabilities but they can't overcome the "superstereo" effect.

If you like superstereo, then great, enjoy it. I have to say that the word superstereo does sound rather cool in a 60s kind of a way perhaps.

There are different crossfeed implementations by different engineers. The crossfeed on my recently acquired Meier Audio Corda Soul Mk II is really quite superb actually, however I will write about that in greater length when I do my review of that DAC/amp.

I agree - I don't listen these days without crossfeed (except binaural recordings). The basic point is that phones don't present information the way loudspeakers do - and most music is engineered for loudspeaker presentation. Crossfeed addresses this to some extent. I accept crossfeed might be characterised as a form of EQ. Equally, the departure from loudspeaker presentation involved in all headphone listening might be characterised as a form of EQ. I don't think this extra labelling really matters. The implementations vary, but all seek to address the basic physical difference between loudspeakers and phones. Crossfeed doesn't just address a sense of fatigue. It changes what we hear in a significant way. I think it can build on the superb imaging of the HD800S to produce an effect of realism that I've not heard matched by any loudspeaker. But, as many here have observed, there's no need to rely on various opinions about it. Any interested listener can just try it.

 

[Whazzzup]

Chord TT has none,low,med,high crossfeed. Started med and drifted to none. Then there’s roons crossfeed…haven’t tried. I do understand the “speaker” effect, but the freak of phones to me is the imagery it creates, unlike speakers…but as JamesJames suggests, I’ll cycle through them next session…

 

[S Crowther]

Chord TT has none,low,med,high crossfeed. Started med and drifted to none. Then there’s roons crossfeed…haven’t tried. I do understand the “speaker” effect, but the freak of phones to me is the imagery it creates, unlike speakers…but as JamesJames suggests, I’ll cycle through them next session…

I use Audirvana with the Goodherz can opener studio crossfeed plug in.

 

[shabta]

I agree - I don't listen these days without crossfeed (except binaural recordings). The basic point is that phones don't present information the way loudspeakers do - and most music is engineered for loudspeaker presentation. Crossfeed addresses this to some extent. I accept crossfeed might be characterised as a form of EQ. Equally, the departure from loudspeaker presentation involved in all headphone listening might be characterised as a form of EQ. I don't think this extra labelling really matters. The implementations vary, but all seek to address the basic physical difference between loudspeakers and phones. Crossfeed doesn't just address a sense of fatigue. It changes what we hear in a significant way. I think it can build on the superb imaging of the HD800S to produce an effect of realism that I've not heard matched by any loudspeaker. But, as many here have observed, there's no need to rely on various opinions about it. Any interested listener can just try it.

Most music today is at least in part and often times only mixed and mastered on headphones. There are all these young people with computers making music in their bedroom with a pair of headphones, some of them make super popular music. But that ethos has spread almost everywhere. Now a days even if you use speakers for mixing and mastering, it is generally understood that headphones are a necessary part of the process. There is almost no such thing as a natural recording, if you look at all the processing that goes into recording, mixing and mastering even acoustic music. So I don't really agree that the problem (if there is one) with headphone listening is that it is somehow not considered by today's recorded music. It's more likely that if it is a problem, it's a problem for those listeners who use speakers. But I don't really think it matters much either way.

If you like crossfeed, that's great. I agree it changes what we here in a significant way, especially the bass response (for me and my ears, not in a good way most of the time). And I have never heard crossfeed make the music sound like it is coming from in front of you rather than mostly inside my head. So, for realism, I think great speakers in a decently non reflective room are always going to sound better(ie more realistic) . But of course we have significanty others/neighbors/room mates to consider, loud ambient noise common to urban environments or we may not have a good room for speakers. Perhaps we just love the super stereo effect, love pinpoint imaging or just want to hear every last detail in the mix. Then headphones are the way to go.

I think we may have to agree to disagree, but at least we like to listen to the HD800S with and without crossfeed.

 

[IXOYE]

My experience with Crossfeed is that you lose a little soundstage but gain significantly less listen fatigue, but I think it's worth it, especially with 800s that already have an extreme soundstage. but I haven't experienced losing any bass at all.

 

[jamesjames]

While I'm a fan a crossfeed, I'm not sure this is the place to write more about it. I've described my thoughts at greater length on the relevant Computer Audio thread on this site for anyone interested - including the question whether headphone mastering is affecting the issue in more modern recording. Suffice to say here that I think the effect is complex, and difficult to describe.