Gustard U18
Apr 27, 2024 at 11:19 PM Post #1,982 of 1,989
Has anyone compared the coax vs optical output of U18? I am using coax and it's a great improvement over USB. Would like to know if optical is even better.
My DAC only supports these 2 options.
Most of the time, optical loses out. It often suffers the most jitter of all connection types, plus it has the lowest bit rate/resolution limits, so that comes as little surprise that it rarely ever comes out on top compared to coax, unless you have a major issue with the coax cable picking up noise (which optical won’t).

-Ed
 
Apr 27, 2024 at 11:22 PM Post #1,983 of 1,989
Just play some music. Some settings won't play any sound, and others will invert left and right channels. Just toggle until you hear music via the correct channels.

Congrats and enjoy!
U18 came in today and I was able to get I2S working without too much effort. Toggling through all four settings on the U18 didn’t work with the default setting on the Draco. When I left U18 in Gustard I2S mode, and then started adjusting the I2S mode on the Draco, the first option I changed it to (from default) worked perfectly for PCM. Did not yet get a chance to test DSD, but I typically won’t be using my Musician Draco for DSD anyway (I have a Cayin RU7 1-bit native DAC for that material anyway).

-Ed
 
Apr 28, 2024 at 8:40 AM Post #1,984 of 1,989
Has anyone compared the coax vs optical output of U18? I am using coax and it's a great improvement over USB. Would like to know if optical is even better.
My DAC only supports these 2 options.
Coax can be better than optical and vice versa. For me Supernova 7 optical beat regular amazon optical. Aliexpress Odin 2 Coax beat amazon optical. Supernova 7 optical beat odin 2 Coax. Audio Envy and Atlas Ascent Ultra Coax beat those.

I would bet on higher end Coax winning out and it's what I'd go for if those were my only two options. There is a smoothness and fullness with the good Coax
 
Apr 28, 2024 at 8:46 AM Post #1,985 of 1,989
Coax can be better than optical and vice versa. For me Supernova 7 optical beat regular amazon optical. Aliexpress Odin 2 Coax beat amazon optical. Supernova 7 optical beat odin 2 Coax. Audio Envy and Atlas Ascent Ultra Coax beat those.

I would bet on higher end Coax winning out and it's what I'd go for if those were my only two options. There is a smoothness and fullness with the good Coax
This essentially goes back to my comment about coax and noise rejection. The better coax cables will do a better job rejecting noise. The science leads to the proof (your experience with different coax cables). I am not sure why different optical cables would perform differently though, at least not clear on the science behind it (not denying it to be true, just don’t know the reason behind it). Certainly an interesting subject matter, but as we all know, cables are an eternally hot topic in general in our common hobby here.

-Ed

PS on a somewhat related note, an AES/EBU connection in theory should reject any common mode noise that a single-ended coax digital connection would pick up, so arguably, cable quality should have much lesser of an effect if using AES/EBU compared to the important of the cable when using coax.
 
Last edited:
Apr 28, 2024 at 10:14 AM Post #1,986 of 1,989
This essentially goes back to my comment about coax and noise rejection. The better coax cables will do a better job rejecting noise. The science leads to the proof (your experience with different coax cables). I am not sure why different optical cables would perform differently though, at least not clear on the science behind it (not denying it to be true, just don’t know the reason behind it). Certainly an interesting subject matter, but as we all know, cables are an eternally hot topic in general in our common hobby here.

-Ed

PS on a somewhat related note, an AES/EBU connection in theory should reject any common mode noise that a single-ended coax digital connection would pick up, so arguably, cable quality should have much lesser of an effect if using AES/EBU compared to the important of the cable when using coax.
Audiophile optical can make a large difference in a revealing system for sure just like the rest of cables. Thankfully I'm not stuck with optical though. I think optical is on all devices because it breaks up ground loops and doesn't pass high frequency noise, good in those scenarios. If your system isn't noise mitigated enough this is probably the correct choice to avoid fatigue technically speaking. I love how relaxing optical is in those scenarios, it's a real improvement if it's bad enough noise going on. Optical does still pass the degraded SQ in the system from noise in general and will improve as noise is removed from the system. Jitter is the worst though so it would hard to make it the ultimate choice for a cable. I2s is the best at the time IMO as it bypasses things and goes straight into the DAC, it's quite audible. A good coax or AES does the trick for me though thankfully. Some high end DACs bypass the issues of jitter and noise by internally bypassing clocking and you won't hear near as much of a difference between any of the inputs then.

How well cables are tuned and tested is very important. Mediocre ones won't extend as much in both directions or do as magical of imaging and other things like reverbs. It's hard for it to come out balanced, revealing and not too much which takes much testing to balance. Connectors and solder make a huge difference, as does break in of the connector sometimes taking a long time, AES/XLR and Coax/RCA are both quite vulnerable to noise ect. and very well tuned and tested ones flow better timing no doubt and will sound smoother and much more revealing. Some Atlas cables bypass using solder and wow they are open sounding right off the bat, no break in, beyond anything I've seen yet and they arn't even cryo treated and became my reference cables.
 
Apr 28, 2024 at 10:50 AM Post #1,987 of 1,989
Most of the time, optical loses out. It often suffers the most jitter of all connection types, plus it has the lowest bit rate/resolution limits, so that comes as little surprise that it rarely ever comes out on top compared to coax, unless you have a major issue with the coax cable picking up noise (which optical won’t).

-Ed
I like the idea that optical completely isolates electical noises from source, but didn't realize that the conversions of light/electic on both sides could introduce jitters.
Guess my next experiment will be fuse instead of optical.
Thanks for the comment!
 
Apr 28, 2024 at 12:01 PM Post #1,988 of 1,989
on coax must be 4 - 6 sheild
https://in-akustik.com/digital-coaxial-cable-006044007par
4 shields
https://www.vandenhul.com/product/the-digi-coupler-75-ohm-halogen-free/
6 shield
if there is noise, you will not get the most out of the music,
it very blurry.
but the 2 coax cables do not produce noise
aes/ebu
i use mogami 3173
https://www.audiocables.eu/products...-neutrik-xlr-connectors-long-distance-aes-ebu
as well as 2 metal foil shields, made by myself, no noise for gustard u18
have tried optical cables
before with plastic
found out that glass refracts light in a different way
https://silversonic.com/products/digital-cables/glass-master-toslink/
dh lab GLASS MASTER TOSLINK
is top when the optical cables sound is top
there only an optical cable there better
lifatec
http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html
 
Apr 28, 2024 at 12:28 PM Post #1,989 of 1,989
on coax must be 4 - 6 sheild
https://in-akustik.com/digital-coaxial-cable-006044007par
4 shields
https://www.vandenhul.com/product/the-digi-coupler-75-ohm-halogen-free/
6 shield
if there is noise, you will not get the most out of the music,
it very blurry.
but the 2 coax cables do not produce noise
aes/ebu
i use mogami 3173
https://www.audiocables.eu/products...-neutrik-xlr-connectors-long-distance-aes-ebu
as well as 2 metal foil shields, made by myself, no noise for gustard u18
have tried optical cables
before with plastic
found out that glass refracts light in a different way
https://silversonic.com/products/digital-cables/glass-master-toslink/
dh lab GLASS MASTER TOSLINK
is top when the optical cables sound is top
there only an optical cable there better
lifatec
http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html
The BNC cable I use is an Audio Sensibility's Statement, which uses a silver conductor with 4 layer shielding. I don't have many experiences about digital cables and guess it should be fine for my system.
When I see a good used optical cable with a good price I might give it a try. Thanks for the links.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top