and i totally agree with you concerning a new amp - a superdual is fine for portable, but when a pro soundcard is at one end, and a HD650 is at the other, the amp chosen should be a "home amp" like a Solo or something.

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I owned the 1212M for a month or so before buying an 0404. When I first installed the 0404 I commented on it after a half hour of listening saying it sounded muddy and almost pathetic compared to the 1212M. On the advice of some users here I left it play for a while and came back to it. I then noticed it had pretty much caught up to the 1212M. I attribute the changes to break in, but I guess it could be other things.

My opinion is that system synergy and music preference is what is most important when choosing between the 0404 and 1212M. The 1212M is more detailed and sounds more neutral, but can be a bit boring at times. The 0404 is warmer, has boomier bass and more forward vocals in my opinion. My preference really depends on the music I am listening to. For rock and other aggressive music the 0404 is almost always the winner. For classical the 1212M wins. Piano and woodwind instruments sound significantly better on the 1212M. I also prefer different opamps in my Pimeta with the 2 cards. With the 1212M I prefer the AD8620 and with the 0404 I prefer the OPA627.

Ahh I hate you guys, I was set to buy a 0404 after the PCII group buy was finalized but damn... I'm not so sure I want one anymore.

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I think that's right on.

Has anyone really stated matter-of-factly that they prefer the 1212M over the 0404? I chose the 1212M because I found a good deal on it--and because I wrongly assumed it was a better, higher-end card than the 0404 due to its price. Perhaps I will trade my 1212M in for an 0404...

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I wasn't specific enough, I guess.... What I want to know is if the 1212M would be better for sound editing. I need my computer sound system to be as neutral and detailed as possible because I use it for video and sound editing sometimes; the only music I listen to on the computer is MP3 - so I can EQ that to whatever I want (the quality lost in EQ'ing is neglible, I'm sure, compared to the limitations inherent in MP3's).

So, yes, "objectively better" = measures better. I.e. more linear frequency response, less noise, less distortion - closer to the original than otherwise - all those things that a "traditional" (if there is such a thing) audiophile seeks, I suppose.

I take it that VitaminJosh, given his last statement, would agree that this is the case with the 1212M vs. 0404. To put this back on topic, if we were to remove "being musical" from the equation, would anyone prefer the 1212M over the 0404?

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Ian, what does go into a lively presentation? I do like a lively presentation but i didn't wish to sacrifice the detail that the 1212m has.

how else could a lively sound be instilled? emu patchmix is very flexible.

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The 1212m has better convertors and they measure I think slightly better.

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Lively to me means greater dynamics which is split into the macro and mico. Macro is how I describe the slam, attack, power of the sounds, etc.. Micro is the small detail oriented things like instrument / voice separation, soundstage, etc. The EQ may make the bass stand out more if you push it up but it doesn't make a instrument stand out as instruments don't exist only in those limited frequencies. It can sound weird (out of balance) if not used correctly. I'm fine with EQ in the production of music but in the actual playback on headphones, depends.

I don't find the 1212m to have that much macro dynamics and is toward the flat side. Other opamp / DAC combos seem to be more "powerful". Since it's an internal soundcard with the best power source, it's limiting to how good it's micro dynamics can be.

As for "instilling" more of these into a system. I find, you can generally work on it in two ways from the "top" or from the "bottom". The "top" is like macro dynamics and you can use a more powerful amplifier and better power cord for it, etc. From the "bottom" in getting more microdynamics is like reducing the noise floor, reducing jitter, bettering the clock, shielding cables, etc.

In your setup, I'd get an amp which is more powerful and gives good current to control the Grados better. Better control of the bass should open up the other frequencies. To me dynamics and detail are closly related but not totally synonymous. I find bettering dynamics will yield more detail as a result. Along those lines I also agree with VitaminJosh in saying 1212m is kind of grating. It is so I believe because it is trying to bring out details but since it can't do so fully at the smallest level, that slight "masking" is kind of annoying. You can perceive it.... Better it's power supply, cable, etc., using better caps, etc. can fix that. I know from my 1820m which I can compare vs the stock outputs.

But I am critical and also do audio video editing so maybe those with not so trained hearing or equipment may gloss over it.

Hello everyone,

This is my first post.

I just got this card last week. I knew exactly what I was getting when I bought it for $99 at Comp USA. The choice was between this card and the Audiophile 2496. It was really a tossup, but this card was more available, and Comp USA had that no restocking fee on returns deal.

So, I installed it without a hitch. The drivers and software installed perfectly too. I ran into problems immediately when I tried to set the Patchmix software up so I could record the input with Adobe Audition 1.5 and Sound Forge 6. I tried for two days to get it to work, even following the instructions on the E-MU website, but without success. Right when I was ready to give up, I decided to check for patches, upated drivers and firmware. Sure enough, there were three updates. So, I downloaded and installed them very easily, and voila! It works now! And, it sounds GREAT!

As for the sound, I do not hear the bloated bass, midrange distortion, or colored sound most of you do. I hear very clean, transparent sound that sounds like what I put into it. Yeah, the possibility of the Radio Shack 1/4 plugs degrading the sound from my interconnects bothered me for like two minutes. But, I don't hear it. I'm very happy with this card!

I do NOT plug headphones into the computer. I route the 0404 output directly to my stereo amp and play through the monitors. I only use cans for detail work, and plug those into the amp. Sure, it would be nice to have the RCA jacks, like the Audiophile card, but It's not a problem.

My primary purpose for this card is recording demo tapes and vinyl for sound restoration.

Windows XP Home SP2
Intel P4 2.4c HT 800MZ FSB
Intel D965PERL Mobo with 865 chipset
512 DDR RAM
Maxtor ATA 40GB 5400 HD
Maxtor ATA 160GB 7200 HD
ATI Raedon 7000 64DDR
E-MU 0404
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
Adobe Audition 1.5
Sound Forge 6
CD Architect 5
CD Creator Platinum 5
Nero 5.5

I dont think we can assume the 1212m has better output over the 0404 just because it costs 2x as much. I'd bet that pretty much all the extra $100 you pay for the 1212m goes to the extra recording stuff and not the outputs. But not all of it, because i found the benchmarks below.

Either way even after comapring them in the benchy below, they both rule.

http://www.kordak.net/0404/24-bit44kHzComparison.htm