New DIY Altoids Tin Amp - The Pocket Class A "Wintergreen Handwarmer" by xrk971

Mar 16, 2017 at 6:32 PM Post #106 of 468
Hi Bogde,
Wow you have a lot of nice headphones that you tried out. Glad they all work well. The 10uF and 100nF caps I used were not name brand or anything (CBB 100nF 100v MKT - but they work well) If I were to make it over again I would use 4.7uF Silmic II on the inputs with Wima or Vishay 100nF 100v MKT. let me put together a list of what I would call premium components for the larger caps. The Nichicon AK 470uF 16v cap on the output was suggested by StellarElephant.

On most of my personal projects I tend to use pretty inexpensive but high value components. The stuff for others I usually use name brand components. But for low ESR caps I definitely am a believer in Panasonic OSCONs. Those 390uF output caps are way more expensive than a comparable Silmic.
 
Mar 17, 2017 at 11:07 AM Post #107 of 468
Bogde,
Since you requested it, here are some choices to play with - these are for the input and output caps and bypass.  All top-shelf name brand stuff here. Elna Silmic II on electrolytic duty and Wima MKS film on bypass. Also, there is the Nichicon AK on the output if you like. Pair that with a 4.7uF Wima for some astounding bass and clear highs with lush smooth mids.  For $12 it's cheap thrills and lots of fun listening to differences.
 
Have fun!
 
http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=3478bcb1a3
 
Mar 17, 2017 at 1:32 PM Post #109 of 468
Running List of Headphones successfully tested with this amp. Please edit list and update with your own setup. Include source if possible.
 
 
- AKG K240 (Bogde)
- HD600 with Apollo 8 Blackface (John H. personal communication to xrk971) 
- LCD-2 (70ohm) (Morde)
- DT990 pro (Bogde)
- DT880-250 special ed. Chrome with Focusrite Solo 2G (xrk971)
- DT770-250 (pcgab)
- MA900 (Bogde)
- MDRV6 with Focusrite Solo 2G (xrk971)
- HD800 (modified) with Yggdrasil (Funch)
- HD800 (Bogde)
- [size=inherit]HD598-50 (StellarElephant)[/size]
- HD598c (Bogde)

 
Mar 17, 2017 at 3:03 PM Post #110 of 468
- AKG K240 (Bogde)
- HD600 with Apollo 8 Blackface (John H. personal communication to xrk971) 
- LCD-2 (70ohm) (Morde)
- DT990 pro (Bogde)
- DT880-250 special ed. Chrome with Focusrite Solo 2G (xrk971)
- DT770-250 (pcgab)
- MA900 (Bogde)
- MDRV6 with Focusrite Solo 2G (xrk971)
- HD800 (modified) with Yggdrasil (Funch)
- HD598-50 (StellarElephant)
- HD598Cs (Bogde)
- HE400i (bogde) (Tidal HiFi > Fiio X3ii)
- AKG Q701 (bogde) (Tidal HiFi > Fiio X3ii) 

 
Mar 17, 2017 at 3:10 PM Post #111 of 468
i added the HE400i and AKG Q701s. i removed the HD800, as, unfortunately for me, I don't have those.
 
i gave my trinity phantom sabres a try with this amp today, just for kicks. with no music playing, i have to go to about 1 o'clock until i hear _any_ background noise. at that volume i can only listen for a few seconds anyway, so i think that's really, really good. as for the sound, i can't do a real A/B test, but it seems to be just as good as my fiio e12a, which is an amp designed specifically for IEMs.
 
Mar 18, 2017 at 8:49 PM Post #112 of 468
Finally got my first board in a tin! Couldn't resist the dragon on the Newmans ginger mints. I am finally mobile and enjoying the heck out of my new stack. The midrange fullness, dynamic impact, and overall engaging sound is excellent. I tried it today as a preamp with my DIY boom box, too. Same great results. It really fleshes out the sound.



Hole punch on the tin worked out very well. I used a round chainsaw file to enlarge the pot hole. Drilling the LED light went OK but the edges are a tad ragged if you look close. I punched it first with a hammer and nail and then worked up through drill bit sizes. The largest bits tore a bit too much.

I mounted my board upside down in the tin for stacking convenience with my X3 DAP. This aligns the line out jack with the amp input jack. I mounted the board as low as possible in the tin so that the jacks wouldn't hit the lid lip. In fact the SMT side is flat against the bottom (I covered the bottom with electrical tape). If I had made the holes just a tad higher so the jacks nested up under the lid a tad, Would have been better off. As is, the holes are so low that the board won't sit flat against the bottom...I had to tilt it downward towards the edge.. Because it is wedged in there, the knob protrudes at a slightly download angle. Not perfect, but I can live with it! At least it stacks as planned.

I am currently running mine with no bypass cap on the output for now. More on this later...
 
Mar 18, 2017 at 9:12 PM Post #113 of 468
Nice work! I am surprised you were able to mount upside down and volume knob doesn't rub the lid. Looks great. You need sone real batteries my friend. Those are $ store 9v carbon zinc cells. :)
 
Mar 19, 2017 at 1:54 AM Post #116 of 468
I wanted to post my listening notes for the capacitor options I've listened to over the past few weeks.  I'm including the listening test I did for the last few days with the Nichicon 470uF output caps soldered in place instead of temporarily attached (I believe this cleaned up the signal a bit).  I don't know why I ever bothered using the wires and gator clips.  I found that with them removed and the main caps soldered in, it was much easier to just pressure fit the different bypass caps in place.  I did this from the SMT side of the board, where there was tons of clearance.  I was surprised, but the parts made good contact just placed in the holes.  These impressions were based on listening with Sennheiser HD 598, which have an impedance of 50 Ohms.
 
1000uF OSCON - no bypass
-bass effortless
-vocals fuzzy
-smooth
 
360uF OSCON - no bypass
-more treble
-less mids and bass
-smooth
 
470uF Nichicon AK - no bypass
-sharper transient attacks, most transparency
-most treble details and midbass texture
-most balanced sound
 
---after soldering in the Nichicons---
 
470uF Nichicon AK - no bypass
-even treble throughout vocal region
-decent treble clarity, hint of graininess
-I wish there was a bit more HF extension
-tightest, most coherent overall sound
 
470uF Nichicon AK - 1uF WIMA MKS
-more treble, smoother
-best high treble of all combos tried
-less tightness/coherence
 
470uF Nichicon AK - 2.2uF WIMA MKS
-more high treble than no bypass, but less than 1uF bypass
-smooth
-vocals full-bodied and pleasantly forward in mix
-still less tightness/coherence
 
Take it all with a grain of salt.  These are all sighted comparisons.  But after considerable back and forth sighted testing, my current favorite is NO bypass cap.  Even though both bypasses brought forward the treble nicely, I found that they added a very subtle "something funny" or perhaps a null (?) in part of the vocal range.  It almost sounded like a phase issue, where there is cancelling or disagreement rather than coherence.  Maybe I was hearing impedance anomalies at the low corner frequencies of the bypasses...I don't know, or maybe I'm just distinguishing the "hand off" between electrolytic and polyester.  I envy you guys with 250 ohm cans...that puts the corner frequencies of your bypass caps WAY lower, perhaps getting such issues out of the MOST sensitive range of human hearing, the 2-5kHz "vocal presence" range, which is where they occur for me with my 50 ohm cans.
 
OTHER BYPASS OPTIONS
 
Larger WIMA MKS
One option for me is to use a larger WIMA MKS.  X already thought of this of course
tongue.gif

Even the 6.8uF MKS (14mm tall) will fit in my tin with the way I mounted my board so low!  I'm going to try 3.3uF, 4.7uF, and 6.8uF.  6.8uF would reach down to 470Hz!  I don't think I would hear the subtle "hand off" down that low.  Still, I am a tad skeptical about this strategy, since according to WIMA, the bigger the cap, the worse the dissipation factor at high frequencies. 
See here: http://www.wima.com/EN/mks2.htm  Hopefully this increased dissipation will be inaudible, but I think I can already hear more high treble from 1uF vs. 2.2uF, so we will see if this is a trade-off with higher capacitance.  Have you tried any of the 4.7uF size yet, X?
 
Smaller WIMA MKS
Another option would be to push my bypass corner frequency above the delicate vocal region, closer to 10kHz.  I could accomplish this with a .33uF bypass.  I could still use a MKT but I'm looking at some other options too.  WIMA themselves do not actually recommend MKS caps in the signal path for audio circuits, though I know that they are often used this way with success anyhow...see pg. 7: http://www.tawelectronics.com/wima/WIMA%20Audio.pdf
 
Smaller Vishay MKT
This 0.33uF Vishay MKT cap would fit.  Still polyester.  I don't know how these sound compared to WIMA MKS.  If I'm reading the graph on its datasheet correctly, it has a dissipation of 0.01 @ 10 kHz, a smidgen better than the WIMA spec which is .015.  But Vishay also provides more precise measurement data, so it's probably insignificant.  Anyhow, this comparison ranks them a tad higher than MKS: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html  If fact, he actually mentions good coherence in his impressions.  They are slightly different cap series though.  He compared MKT1822 and MKS4, with wider lead spacings and perhaps other differences.  I'll be comparing MKT370 and MKS2 series.
 
Smaller WIMA MKP
Hey, why stick with Polyester if I can fit a Polypropylene of the same .33 uF value?  I think I can cram this WIMA MKP2 in there, but Mouser calls it a "RF Microwave Film Capacitor" and its datasheet does not mention bypass as an application, nor are they mentioned in the "WIMA for Audio" doc.  Hmm.  What's the difference between MKP2 and MPK4...just size I hope? 
 
Smaller VISHAY MKP
This is a long shot for me, but I've drooled over the Vishay MKP polypropylene caps a bit, which are very highly recommended in the Humblehomemadehifi resource.  Sadly, I think the only one I can fit would be this puny .12uF cap.  Not sure if I'd hear anything at all, since the -3db point (corner frequency) with my 50 ohm cans would be way above human hearing range at 26kHz.
rolleyes.gif
  Still, for folks with higher impedance headphones, this could be a worthwhile upgrade experiment.  Corner frequency is down to 5kHz for 250 ohms.
 
Please share your thoughts if you have experience with any of these caps!
 
Mar 19, 2017 at 2:11 AM Post #117 of 468
  You mean like a bridged amp?


I guess so, I just mean true balanced  end-to-end.
 
 
You should really launch this little beauty on kickstarter, then you can get a really excellent mass order CNC'd case for the amp and bulk order battery.
My 2100mAh battery for my iBasso PB2 is $20 plus shipping. Quite a good capacity.
 
Mar 19, 2017 at 5:33 AM Post #119 of 468
you guys are probably aware of this, but i thought i should post it anyway, maybe it will help somebody. for the led hole something like this works out great: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiskars-Crafts123740-1001-Teresa-Collins-Hand-Punch-1-8-Inch-123740-1001-/262816786454
the 3mm led fits perfectly through the 1/8" whole. and, just like with the 1/4" model, the parts that may stand in the way, like the paper holder (see image), can easily be removed.

 
Mar 19, 2017 at 9:59 AM Post #120 of 468
I guess so, I just mean true balanced  end-to-end.


You should really launch this little beauty on kickstarter, then you can get a really excellent mass order CNC'd case for the amp and bulk order battery.
My 2100mAh battery for my iBasso PB2 is $20 plus shipping. Quite a good capacity.


I don't quite know what balanced headphone outs mean. Normally in amplifier terminology, balanced inputs are what pros use for long cable runs of signals where there is a positive and negative so that CM noise cancels out. But it seems like balanced headphone outs mean separate mono block amps with separate cables to each channel? The amps currently share a common power bus and ground internally. If you paralleld the amp outputs you could drive twice the current but same voltage. So for current hungry cans this would be good.

I am testing a prototype with a dedicated LiPo and charging system and dc to dc step up converter to get 16v from the 3.7v 2600mAh LiPo cell.

The kickstarter route is interesting. So is not having a slick looking CNC'd case stopping you guys from getting an amp like this that has superb sound quality? By all accounts, the reviews that have come in so far have been very positive with regards to sound quality and ability to drive a wide range of headphones and do it well.
 

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