astral abyss said:

   
DAC-19 is definitely not more resolving.  That was one of the first things I noticed when I switched over to the S19.  

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Could you elaborate a little bit more about the difference between the two from your user point of view? You're one of the few that can, would be much appeciated!

I'm a bit confused on DSP and USB technologies implemented. 
 
I have a Singularity 19 on order - 4 PCs - Amanero - Replace ACSS with RCA's - Two TCXO's Upgrade.
 
I was looking into the differences between Sigma Delta and R-2R designs - the warmer natural tone of R-2R peaked my interest, so I ordered an S19. 
 
Recently I've read that the PCM1704UK exhibits slightly more musical and laid back tone vs. the DA-M1 modules. But they are both R2R, just implemented differently.
 
So I'm looking into ordering a NOS-19, as I don't care for oversampling abilities, and am looking for the most natural real tone. 
 
 
So, this is what I'm confused about:
 
NOS-19 page:
" A high exact TCXO for the DSP chip   running in the asynchronous data process mode, it don't want the source master clock input , which is reduce the signal transmit request, FIFO design and rebuilt the clock by the DSP chip, can refuse the jitter ."
 
NOS-19 Upgrade page:
"3, Upgrade to the Amanero combo384 USB module:
     Upgrade to the Amanero combo384 USB module for replace the USB32, price +USD45 ( Choice this upgrade option, customer don't want upgrade the TCXO for the USB )."
 
So the "stock" TCXO doesn't use the oversampling from your source, and passes it right along to the processor?
But, if you order the upgrade option 3 you don't get a TCXO that refuses jitter and external oversampling?
 
A explanation is very much appreciated, as well as one's opinion on what would be best with the PCM1704UK NOS-19. 
 
...... and whether or not it's a good idea to order both the S19 and NOS-19 for different flavors and fun - or if I'm just going to be disappointed about spending the cash. I really do want the absolute most real natural tone in my music, and the ability to oversample and change things up. Basically both extremes.  
 
I currently have a Modi MB running at NOS mode - if that makes a difference in my choices. 
 
Thank you very much,
 
-T

gk2013 said:

   
For the last 12 years you told customers the PCM1704 chip was neutral and one of the best in the market and now the PCM1704 is warm and not enough detail.
There is an emergency because there are no PCM1704 chips anymore and now Audio-GD made something better all of a sudden.
I have listened to the SING19 but my personal taste is the DAC19, it is more resolving and emotional.

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You may had not read my post careful.
The PCM1704 is neutral in Master 7 but warmer sound design in the DAC19.
The Singularity 19 is desing sound flavor close Master 7 but not DAC19.

turbosquid67 said:

I'm a bit confused on DSP and USB technologies implemented. 

I have a Singularity 19 on order - 4 PCs - Amanero - Replace ACSS with RCA's - Two TCXO's Upgrade.

I was looking into the differences between Sigma Delta and R-2R designs - the warmer natural tone of R-2R peaked my interest, so I ordered an S19. 

Recently I've read that the PCM1704UK exhibits slightly more musical and laid back tone vs. the DA-M1 modules. But they are both R2R, just implemented differently.

So I'm looking into ordering a NOS-19, as I don't care for oversampling abilities, and am looking for the most natural real tone. 


So, this is what I'm confused about:

NOS-19 page:

" A high exact TCXO for the DSP chip   running in the asynchronous data process mode, it don't want the source master clock input , which is reduce the signal transmit request, FIFO design and rebuilt the clock by the DSP chip, can refuse the jitter ."

NOS-19 Upgrade page:
"[COLOR=FF0000]3[COLOR=FF0000], [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=FF0000]Upgrade to the Amanero combo384 USB module:

    [/COLOR] Upgrade to the Amanero combo384 USB module for replace the USB32, price +USD45 ( Choice this upgrade option, customer don't want upgrade the TCXO for the USB )."

So the "stock" TCXO doesn't use the oversampling from your source, and passes it right along to the processor?
But, if you order the upgrade option 3 you don't get a TCXO that refuses jitter and external oversampling?

A explanation is very much appreciated, as well as one's opinion on what would be best with the PCM1704UK NOS-19. 

...... and whether or not it's a good idea to order both the S19 and NOS-19 for different flavors and fun - or if I'm just going to be disappointed about spending the cash. I really do want the absolute most real natural tone in my music, and the ability to oversample and change things up. Basically both extremes.  

I currently have a Modi MB running at NOS mode - if that makes a difference in my choices. 

Thank you very much,

-T

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Not sure the tcxo upgrade note is relevant here. Just some info that was left there by mistake. I think that the standard usb module could have a TCXO upgrade in the past but that it is not offered anymore. The amanero module has a standard tcxo, so no need to upgrade it.

Another point is NOS is non oversampling and with this DAC and other NOS product, the incoming signal keeps its original rate, whatever it is. It just is dejittered and low-pass filtered. The asynchronous allusion means the timing depends mostly on the DAC and is quite independent of the source.

The singularity is an oversampling DAC, and these sound normally more accurate at the expense of lost smoothness and musicality. Each has its strengths. A matter of preferences, really. So buying both, you will get two different sounding machines. The singularity can be configured for NOS but is not as good as the NOS equivalent doing so. With the singularity, you can select different levels of oversampling to tune the sound flavor, With the NOS, you get to choose between different NOS modes as well.

I don't understand what warm or neutral means in relation to sound, but I can tell you this, the NOS 19 kicks ass, at least on my system. If you listen to jazz, acoustic or classical music I highly suggest you get one before they are gone. Don't get me wrong the other genres sound great too but you really tell the sound quality of the NOS 19 with jazz and the other fore-mentioned genres. Incredibly natural sounding. 

freda said:

Not sure the tcxo upgrade note is relevant here. Just some info that was left there by mistake. I think that the standard usb module could have a TCXO upgrade in the past but that it is not offered anymore. The amanero module has a standard tcxo, so no need to upgrade it.

Another point is NOS is non oversampling and with this DAC and other NOS product, the incoming signal keeps its original rate, whatever it is. It just is dejittered and low-pass filtered. The asynchronous allusion means the timing depends mostly on the DAC and is quite independent of the source.

The singularity is an oversampling DAC, and these sound normally more accurate at the expense of lost smoothness and musicality. Each has its strengths. A matter of preferences, really. So buying both, you will get two different sounding machines. The singularity can be configured for NOS but is not as good as the NOS equivalent doing so. With the singularity, you can select different levels of oversampling to tune the sound flavor, With the NOS, you get to choose between different NOS modes as well.

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Makes better sense to me now, thank you. I just wanted to be sure that I wasn't losing something important by adding the Amanero.

This really makes me want a NOS 7. Can stacking chips really make that big of a difference? Regardless of balanced. I mean hell, gimme 64 of those bad boys stack em like Oreos and hear colors n see noises. I'm sure the NOS 19 would at least get me to the hearing colors part. Hoping 4 DA-M1's is different than 2. What characteristics change with stacking?

I think I'll see how the S19 treats me before jumping into two expensive dacs. It's got to sound more musical than a lot of others out there, but we will see.

kingwa said:

  You may had not read my post careful.
The PCM1704 is neutral in Master 7 but warmer sound design in the DAC19.
The Singularity 19 is desing sound flavor close Master 7 but not DAC19.

Click to expand...

 
Thank you for you for the explanation. I was too quick with my conclusion. 
The Singularity needs burn in because it already sounds much better than yesterday!
Still the DAC19 sound is very special to me.

turbosquid67 said:

Makes better sense to me now, thank you. I just wanted to be sure that I wasn't losing something important by adding the Amanero.

This really makes me want a NOS 7. Can stacking chips really make that big of a difference? Regardless of balanced. I mean hell, gimme 64 of those bad boys stack em like Oreos and hear colors n see noises. I'm sure the NOS 19 would at least get me to the hearing colors part. Hoping 4 DA-M1's is different than 2. What characteristics change with stacking?

I think I'll see how the S19 treats me before jumping into two expensive dacs. It's got to sound more musical than a lot of others out there, but we will see.

Click to expand...

Stacking has an averaging effect and increase precision. It means better resolution (more linearity and less noise). Possibly, It can also, like when you parallel those pcm1704k, increase dynamics because of the combined driving capacity of the chips.

For a master series dac like the NOS7, i am not sure Kingwa is able to use the new da-m1 and get the same performance yet, the 1704 is very hard to beat, Maybe he will do a special versiin of it with even better resistors and an ultra-careful building process.

The 3-transfomer dac have more of the same attributes you get with the entry-level dacs. I own the master-7. I bought it 4 years ago and i will never sell it. It is excellent, it plays music. Before that, i had the nfb-8. It was an excellent wm8741 dac. Just not as natural as a pcm1704.

Nice. I figured that stacking would increase performance, but I just wasn't sure how.

In time I believe Kingwa will develop more advanced algorithms and precision components that will best the 1704. Eventually we will be able to change many different aspects of the sound produced by our DACs. So much that we could go to all extremes, musical warm digital cold hot whatever you can think of. It's just a matter of the time.

If you think about it, we are only a little over a decade maybe two into advanced levels of technology. There will be some pretty awesome stuff in the next 20-30 years. Software design on high speed hardware is just the beginning.

More/less all of the above don't get carried away. Build on it.

Good to know the high end DACs have traits of their siblings and vice versa. I just placed the order for a NOS 19 If I like it enough, maybe switch out some gear to fund an S7 or NOS7. SO EXCITED FOR THIS!

beano bomboozo said:

I don't understand what warm or neutral means in relation to sound, but I can tell you this, the NOS 19 kicks ass, at least on my system. If you listen to jazz, acoustic or classical music I highly suggest you get one before they are gone. Don't get me wrong the other genres sound great too but you really tell the sound quality of the NOS 19 with jazz and the other fore-mentioned genres. Incredibly natural sounding. 

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That's refreshing to hear! How are you liking the modes and overall use of the NOS 19?


I'm sure the S19 brain dumps are on their way Curious to see how the DA-M1 is burning in!

TurbO I haven't played around with the settings yet. Although the DAC sounded incredible straight out of the box, I wanted to wait to see if the sound characteristics would change any after the burn in before messing around with any of the settings. This DAC has only gotten better with burn in time so I'm not sure that I'm going to mess around with the settings. The mids are excellent, the bass is punchy and there is no tizz sound coming from the tweeters. Very nice balanced and revealing sound. No hint of a digital sound at all. I'm glad i discovered Audio-GD before I pulled the trigger on the gumby, cause after hearing it probably would have been disappointed. 

turbosquid67 said:

Nice. I figured that stacking would increase performance, but I just wasn't sure how.

In time I believe Kingwa will develop more advanced algorithms and precision components that will best the 1704. Eventually we will be able to change many different aspects of the sound produced by our DACs. So much that we could go to all extremes, musical warm digital cold hot whatever you can think of. It's just a matter of the time.

If you think about it, we are only a little over a decade maybe two into advanced levels of technology. There will be some pretty awesome stuff in the next 20-30 years. Software design on high speed hardware is just the beginning.

More/less all of the above don't get carried away. Build on it.

Good to know the high end DACs have traits of their siblings and vice versa. I just placed the order for a NOS 19 If I like it enough, maybe switch out some gear to fund an S7 or NOS7. SO EXCITED FOR THIS!

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cant wait for your impression

Okay, got my issues with my raspberry Pi streamer sorted out. Going to get a lot of listening in this next week as I'm off work! 
 
I do have another strange issue that maybe someone could help me with. I've got my S19 with dual RCA's hooked up to my Wells Audio Milo and Liquid Carbon. When listing to the Milo, I get distortion when the LC is turned off. However when I power on the LC, the Milo sounds normal. 
 
***So a friend of mine thinks its something to do with the LC. He's had similar thing happen with another Cavalli amp.***

gunwale said:

cant wait for your inpression

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For sure! I think that impressions could be better sorted - like into post #1 of a thread - instead of searching through thousands of pages. Maybe in the future this will happen, but I'm just one person and can't change much of this forum habit lol. 
 

heliosphann said:

  Okay, got my issues with my raspberry Pi streamer sorted out. Going to get a lot of listening in this next week as I'm off work! 

 
I do have another strange issue that maybe someone could help me with. I've got my S19 with dual RCA's hooked up to my Wells Audio Milo and Liquid Carbon. When listing to the Milo, I get distortion when the LC is turned off. However when I power on the LC, the Milo sounds normal. 
 
***So a friend of mine thinks its something to do with the LC. He's had similar thing happen with another Cavalli amp.***

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Does this happen with all inputs on the Milo, the carbons input pushed in or out, gain high or low.....etc? Try all possibilities just to see if anything changes. Document as you go. 
The rest is above my head as far as circuitry and technical explanations go. 

beano bomboozo said:

  TurbO I haven't played around with the settings yet. Although the DAC sounded incredible straight out of the box, I wanted to wait to see if the sound characteristics would change any after the burn in before messing around with any of the settings. This DAC has only gotten better with burn in time so I'm not sure that I'm going to mess around with the settings. The mids are excellent, the bass is punchy and there is no tizz sound coming from the tweeters. Very nice balanced and revealing sound. No hint of a digital sound at all. I'm glad i discovered Audio-GD before I pulled the trigger on the gumby, cause after hearing it probably would have been disappointed. 

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Good to hear! I was looking into the Gumby before Audio-gd as well, but now I'm balls deep lol. Maybe someday a Gumby as well, but I just want to reach that point where I can tell myself I'm so happy with what I have that I don't need anything else. Like, every time I listen it just blows me away. Only then will I be able to settle down for a while. Keywords "for a while."