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Walnut Hi-Fi V2 WAV (& MP3) Player by wt - :ok_hand: screenless budget killer combo DAP/Amp :ok_hand:

Jan 30, 2017 at 11:04 AM Post #1,697 of 3,634
hakuzen said:
if you plan to drive the trinity pm4 (hybrid, 2 dynamic drivers + 2 balanced armatures, low impedance high sensitivity), forget to use walnut as an amp (paired with anything).

fiio x3ii and sansa clip+ should drive the trinity pm4 by their own quite well. both daps have a low (<1ohm) and constant output impedance across all frequencies, and have enough power. the synergy should be good for both. i think you don't need an amp to pair them with pm4.

colorfly c3 has low output impedance at 1KHz (higher than fiio x3ii and sansa+).. but it's not constant along all frequencies. in low frequencies, the output impedance of c3 raises a lot (>16ohms), so you can find a noticeable bass roll-off with the pm4. i guess there will be weird impedance interactions at other frequencies. so the synergy c3-pm4 is not good.
if you insist on using c3 with pm4, you can use a neutral amp with low impedance (<1ohm) between them, like topping nx1, not to boost it but to avoid these nasty impedance interactions. walnut would be useless, because it's far from being flat, its output impedance is 100ohms, and the result would be even worse than using only c3 with pm4.
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Bro you you info and knowledge ate more than usefull to me
Thanks so much for all the details aforementioned back there and yes you re right the bass roll off in C3 & Pm4 is unbearable And the overall sound is the worst ever combo with C3
PM4 is also very harsh and metallic in the high frequencies with C3 giving an artificial outcome inaudiblesome times
With C3 i use mostly DUNU2000 & 2000j as well as Fidue A73
Those are the best combos to my ears so far.The reason for getting an amp with C3 is more like a boost in the dynamic range over there,because in terms of timbre and sound signature i wouldnt change C3 for anything else
Recently i got LZA4 from massdrop but havent tried those yet with C3 just hope those will have a good synergy together
Do you think bluebird U3.6 would be a satisfying solution as an amp for C3 with most of the iems mentioned previously?
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 1:29 PM Post #1,698 of 3,634
On the other side the (amp rolled AD825) Walnut pairs exceptionally well with the TK13 IEM (2 x BA, 1 x DD). This is my personal sweet spot for Power Metal. Better than LZ-A4 in any filter mode I tested.
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 1:29 PM Post #1,699 of 3,634
danneq said:
  Finally got a Walnut and it truly is a nice little device. I do however prefer it as amp. I recently sold my Cayin C5 but this almost sounds as good for one sixth of the price of the C5. And it also plays wav!
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I know your preferred sound signature and I think you'd do well to put an OPA opamp inside. Will be more airy with better soundstage 
wink.gif
 then you will have that quality of the C5 in your Walnut, as the C5 also runs with a OPA.
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 2:24 PM Post #1,700 of 3,634
hey guys, I just discovered a bunch of Nippon Chemi-Con 105 degree C brown caps, these are used to build high quality power supplies, would these work for audio application in the 'Nut?
 
i found following ratings that match Walnut's voltage requirements:
 
10V: 1000u, 3300u
16V: 330u, 1200u, 2200u, 2700u, 3300u
50V: 1u, 4.7u, 10u
 

 
Jan 30, 2017 at 3:16 PM Post #1,701 of 3,634
t.r.a.n.c.e. said:
  After spending the last few hours rolling caps, my fav combo is low ESR Rubycon ZL for the filter cap, and silk for everything else, the AD8610ARZ nicely fleshes out the honeyed sound of the Silmics as does the stark Rubycon.
 
I like this opamp enough that I'm thinking to get the super expensive AD8610BRZ version from mouser and solder them onto an adapter. But maybe the ARZ version is good enough for walnut, hmm.
 
Pot: Alps RK097
Opamp: 2x AD8610ARZ.
Caps: Rubycon ZL 1000uf 16v,
- Elna Silmic II 10uf 35v, 47uf 16v, 100uf 16v.
 
FYI, the caps need burn in, the sound changes as I listen, particularly the bass extends and becomes fuller with burn.
 
For the caps search for Elna RFS in mouser with the capacitance and voltage required.
 
I got the vol knobs from here thanks to Nick N, : http://www.ebay.com/itm/171828568383 ,if you need fewer then: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171828577786
 
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so in this iteration, you used different spec than original capacitor ratings:
50v/10u -> 35v/10u
10v/100u -> 16v/100u
right?
 
and what does it mean when you say 2x opamp?
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 3:46 PM Post #1,702 of 3,634
t.r.a.n.c.e. said:
  The pot has an effect on the sound as much as changing the caps if not more. I have tested just changing one cap pair at a time, each has an effect on the sound.
 
FYI the AD797 seems to be unstable with some cap combos, as expected, it's a high performance audio cap that needs tighter spec than the walnut can provide. The AD825 is very nice and more tolerant of various setups.
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Your original post with the AD797 and the caps used:
 
Vol Pot: Alps RK097
Opamp: 2x AD797
Caps: 2x Elna Silmic II 47uf 16v
-2x Elna Cerafine 100uf 10v
-2x Nippon Chemi-con ASH 10uf 50v
-1x Panasonic X-Pro 1000uf 16v
 
Is this not a stable pairing for the Walnut?
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 4:23 PM Post #1,703 of 3,634
ok, I finally opened up my 'Nut, and found following specs on the caps:
power supply cap: 25V/1000u
gold caps (I dont know what they do): 10v/100u
output caps: 10v/47u
tiny black caps (i dont know what they do): too small to see its markings.
 

 
my question is, the default Walnut caps ratings are very different than the ratings of the caps @T.R.A.N.C.E.
 has tried on his posts, so is it safe to try different spec caps?  is it just a matter of trial and error, or is there something more technical/know-how than trial and error?
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 4:41 PM Post #1,704 of 3,634
Listening to the LM4562NA in my walnut and it sounds real good.  It is very nice and balanced.  Got it from for $2.60
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282078253121
 
I bought the opamp originally for my Matrix M-stage.  When I opened the M-stage it had a Muses8820 in it.  I didnt like how the 8820 sounded in the walnut.  Alot of the mids disappeared compared to the 4562 and the original 5532.
 
Stuck the 8820 back in the m-stage where it sounds awesome.  I am going to roll with the 4562 in the walnut for now.  Even though it sounded great in the the M-stage too.
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 5:09 PM Post #1,705 of 3,634
vapman said:
I know your preferred sound signature and I think you'd do well to put an OPA opamp inside. Will be more airy with better soundstage ;)  then you will have that quality of the C5 in your Walnut, as the C5 also runs with a OPA.
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Thanks. I might give that a try. But Walnut really sounds nice and transparent out of the box.
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 5:31 PM Post #1,706 of 3,634
macky112 said:
  hey guys, I just discovered a bunch of Nippon Chemi-Con 105 degree C brown caps, these are used to build high quality power supplies, would these work for audio application in the 'Nut?
 
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They would work, but as for the sound, it is much better to use audio specific capacitors in an analog circuit, basically the best choices are Elna Silmic II and Nichicon FG.
 
macky112 said:
  my question is, the default Walnut caps ratings are very different than the ratings of the caps 
@T.R.A.N.C.E.
 has tried on his posts, so is it safe to try different spec caps?  is it just a matter of trial and error, or is there something more technical/know-how than trial and error?
Click to expand...

 
For the voltages you need 16v for the one biggest cap, and 10v for all the rest, as a minimum, higher voltages are fine, but won't really change the sound much.
 
For the capacitance you can basically use any value you want, but generally going lower isn't going to help, going higher might have sonic trade-offs, some better aspects some worse.
 
dark helmet said:
  Your original post with the AD797 and the caps used. Is this not a stable pairing for the Walnut?
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No I recommend using AD8610 for Silmics and AD825 for Nichicon, the walnut is not cutout for AD797, the sound is just wrong, AD797 can accomplish much more than what it does in walnut, walnut cripples it badly.
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 6:26 PM Post #1,707 of 3,634
t.r.a.n.c.e. said:
   
They would work, but as for the sound, it is much better to use audio specific capacitors in an analog circuit, basically the best choices are Elna Silmic II and Nichicon FG.
 
For the voltages you need 16v for the one biggest cap, and 10v for all the rest, as a minimum, higher voltages are fine, but won't really change the sound much.
 
For the capacitance you can basically use any value you want, but generally going lower isn't going to help, going higher might have sonic trade-offs, some better aspects some worse.
 
No I recommend using AD8610 for Silmics and AD825 for Nichicon, the walnut is not cutout for AD797, the sound is just wrong, AD797 can accomplish much more than what it does in walnut, walnut cripples it badly.
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Ha ha I already ordered the AD797 and associated components you listed..  The AD8610 I found was $27.50 shippe, so I will just try the components with the existing op amp. 
 
Have you tried the LME4972 or LM4562?  
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 6:37 PM Post #1,708 of 3,634
dark helmet said:
  Ha ha I already ordered the AD797 and associated components you listed..  The AD8610 I found was $27.50 shippe, so I will just try the components with the existing op amp. 
 
Have you tried the LME4972 or LM4562?  
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Oh Dang. Well the AD797 is a great opamp, if you ever have another dap or amp with rollable opamp you will be happy you have that AD797. I tried both 4562 and 49720 in their best TO-99 version, they sound very good, but the mids are slightly scooped, not for me. Tried OPA1662 and that has magic mids, am trying OPA827, 1602, 1612 and 1688 soon, as well as a bunch of AD opamps, AD8597, ADA4898-2, ADA4627-1
 
Fyi, many opamps don't behave well in walnut, even the Muses01 and 02 have a slight bubbling noise in the background, as does AD825 and OPA1662, while 4562/49720 just have a very low hum, much better than the bubbling noise. Most people can't seem to hear this bubbling noise so depending on your setup YMMV.
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 7:07 PM Post #1,709 of 3,634
FWIW, I just measured the default 1000u power cap shown in this picture with a multi-meter
 

 
and I got 14.9V.  I am not sure what that means... it is a power cap, can we assume the Walnut is pumping out "only" 15V and not 16V as the official listing stated?
 
Jan 30, 2017 at 8:23 PM Post #1,710 of 3,634
Found another great cap combo, my second favorite after the all silmic walnut, but an easy equal in performance:
 
Sanyo Os-con 47uf and 10uf (these are the gold series, the only Os-cons to ever be made with copper leads for audio, they stopped being produced a decade ago).
Panasonic Pureism 100uf, the only Pana series to ever be made with copper leads for audio, they stopped being produced a decade ago also).
 
The bass digs deeper and fuller than the silmics, the treble has a super nice crisp sparkle, the mids are thinner, can't beat those silmic mids by a mile, but overall a very enjoyable signature from this combo, a very transparent sound that retains authority, I'm amazed it sounds so good even with the AD8610 and Rubycon ZL 1000uf.
 
And aren't those purple gold os-cons just seksy!
 
 

 
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