"Best" Headphones for Directional Audio When Gaming? AT's/AKG's/Beyers?
Dec 15, 2016 at 7:20 PM Post #16 of 35
Wow i was unaware that soundcards had come that far. Honestly i havent used one in a while (no where to put it). I brought up the DLX because ive used that on another computer with my m50x's and it was underwhelming on all front compared to my ef2a.  obviously everything is subjective and a soundcard COULD be the best solution for certain use cases, im just not one of them. 


Nice machine!

I was honestly surprised by what the DLX (and entire STRIX line) have "under the hood" myself - I had seen a few motherboard makers throwing USB audio controllers on islands on their boards, which was more of a marketing stunt than anything else, but seeing it done on a PCIe card...:rolleyes:

Especially from Asus, who (if I'm not mistaken) were the first (or at least one of the first) to really push for high quality headphone amplifiers built-in to internal cards (on the Xonar STX line). They originally used a TI IC amp (the same as on the ZxR and a few other cards), but I knew some of the less expensive Xonar boards didn't offer that (primarily due to cost I'd guess - when the entire packaged product has to be $30 you can't really throw a $5 IC at it willy-nilly). But the DLX is just entirely underwhelming for what they want - the ZxR and Xonar boards are significantly more "board" for the money. :xf_eek:


The audio processing i was referring to is less the internal closed source wizardry of the 90s soundblaster era and more of the optional software that companies offer.



That's a little bit different. In the 1990s hardware-accelerated sound, either as MIDI or as a DSP co-processor was the state of the art, and there were competing APIs to plug various applications into these hardware devices. Sound Blaster was one such option, but there were other competitors (like Aureal). Many older games rely on this hardware-accelerated sound to have proper positional audio, or to have higher quality audio, and for a time the stand-alone soundcard was on its way to being elevated to the same level as the stand-alone 3D graphics accelerator. Some of this stuff is proprietary, some of it is closed-source, but not all of it was explicitly monetized, for example h/w based DirectSound 3D didn't require any additional buy-in as long as you had a compatible adapter (or wrapper), but more complete EAX support required a compatible Sound Blaster (e.g. Audigy).

The various "other software" that manufacturers have offered over the years is usually an up-sell feature - the stuff you list are examples of that, but they're somewhat of an anchronism today. Back in the day, soundcards usually had pretty robust DSPs on them, and if they weren't doing anything for a game, those DSPs were generally sitting idle. So why not let the consumer use them for more features? Why not try to tap into the mutlimedia/home theater market too?

Nowadays, however, hardware-accelerated audio is all but dead and buried. Microsoft pretty much saw to that with Windows Vista's redesigned audio subsystem. This isn't all doom and gloom - a lot of those hardware-accelerated platforms weren't known for their rock-solid stability or ease of use, whereas modern software-based solutions deliver a very consistent experience across a huge range of machines/platforms (and yes I mean consoles too). So that leaves the soundcard as basically a glorified codec - you still need audio in/out from the machine, and a way to plug everything up, and that's basically all a soundcard gets you. But that doesn't stop "them" from trying to include various multimedia features in the driver - the processing power is still there, the connectivity is still there, so why not? (and if you're wondering about those hardware-based titles in the modern era, wrappers have been available for years now)


I did not spend tons of time messing with it but it all ended up sounding muddle to me


I would generally agree with you - it's a lot of fluffy effects that don't do much for the end result. I will say that over the years there have been a number of nice surround or HRTF simulacra released by various sources - Creative's CMSS was nice, as was Razer ESP (I am not sure how closely related to the newer Razer Surround this is), and of course the Dolby and DTS suites generally have some nice components to them (they vary from interface to interface, my understanding is its based on how much the OEM wants to pay in licence fees).

It is nice to know that sound cards are running nicer DACs these days.


I think ever since Creative got busted on the original Audigy (which really wasn't bad, but they were still lying through their teeth about how good it was), soundcard makers have paid a lot more attention to audio quality if they're going to ask $100+ for a card. Most of the higher-end Creative, Asus, Auzen, M-Audio, etc boards of the last ~10 years usually offer pretty nice DACs (at least for the main L/R output), and generally decent build quality. Yes, they are mass-market products that are built on an assembly line and won't feature magic wires, caps, etc as found in more "hi-fi" parts, but at the same time they're dramatically improved over the junk we lived with in the mid-90s.

I will admit i dont catch even a whiff of any sort of interference on my motherboards direct line out. I have seen a lot of boards that are running shielded audio circuitry into their boards, while i have no idea what the DAC chip is on my board, its not terrible, but i think the ef2a's dac is more accurate on sound placement, and well since i play multiplayer FPS's thats one of my biggest concerns after quality audio. 


It's probably a codec, but it may have an external DAC for some/all output channels depending on the board (some manufacturers have done this as an up-sell - if you're using it as a digital source that's immaterial though). As far as the interference/noise thing, in my experience it's really hit-or-miss - I've seen cheap boards that work just fine, and expensive boards that can't get it together, and I'm inclined to believe it as much of a product-to-product variation as it is a more specific example-to-example variation. These boards aren't being QA'd for absolute audio quality, and the tolerances that whatever OEM or IHV will accept are probably really loose (I would not be surprised at all if their limit is basically "does it actually pass sound?" in some cases). A lot of more specialized manufacturers (this is where your custom PC builder stuff usually comes in, as opposed to the boards that go into Dells, HPs, etc) have jumped on the "hi-fi headphone" bandwagon in recent years, and really stepped things up for integrated audio (this is not the first time this craze has swept the nation - years ago it was home theater and we similarly saw a rash of premium motherboards with premium integrated audio). Given how little a "soundcard" actually has to do these days, though, there's not a lot of argument to be made for anything but a really nice codec with good I/O, and if you're using it as a digital transport, even that can waver a bit. :xf_eek:
 
Dec 16, 2016 at 9:02 AM Post #17 of 35
infamoose, did the SB-Z sound card solved your problem? Im very interested on buying the fidelio X2's, the only thing thats holds me back is that im not sure if they have decent imaging/directional audio for competitive fps. Would love to hear what you did to solve the issue.
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Dec 18, 2016 at 1:28 PM Post #18 of 35
After reading up on all information posted here along with a bit of external research, I think i'm going to go with the SB-Z and try to improve my fidelio X2's audio rather than buying a whole new pair of cans; If I do end up buying new headphones though, it will probably be the AD900X's.
 
I've weighed up the options of and external DAC and internal soundcard/dac and decided that I doubt I would really benefit from what an external DAC offers as I'm solely looking to improve gaming audio. Both will pretty much do the same job for me, the only difference being the software/audio options that the internal card comes with seem to benefit me more than anything. That being said I've seen some poor reviews about the creative's software and good reviews about the Asus' software, so I was wondering if any of you could weigh up the differences between the two and tell me if it's just people being really picky? The Soundblaster Z is around £60 for me and the Asus Xonar STX II is around £170, so a huge difference. Is it worth spending the extra for the slightly better card and supposedly better software?
 
 
  infamoose, did the SB-Z sound card solved your problem? Im very interested on buying the fidelio X2's, the only thing thats holds me back is that im not sure if they have decent imaging/directional audio for competitive fps. Would love to hear what you did to solve the issue.
ksc75smile.gif

Unfortunately, as you can tell in the above paragraph of this post, I haven't actually purchased anything yet. It also turns out someone is offering to buy this as a xmas gift for me so I doubt I'll be able to make a good reply to your post until after christmas; but I do plan on doing so. A quick note though, the fidelio X2's have been absolutely amazing so far, in terms of music/movies I've never heard anything better. My problem is that I've been lazy and have just been plugging them into the stereo/aux port on my main speaker for ease of use. I'm sure they'll sound a vast amount better even being plugged directly into a motherboard, let alone a dedicated soundcard/DAC. They have been great for gaming too, my problem is when I play FPS games such as CS:GO the directional audio seems to be slightly offset, you can still hear the direction of audio fairly well, it's just slightly off sometimes. I'm not sure if you've ever played CS:GO before but if you have you may understand this example of offset: I was sat in jungle on a-site mirage, the enemy came from kitchen to CT and I thought I heard footsteps going passed the outside of window room so I moved to stairs and preaimed that windowroom angle and instead he was already CT moving onto site and caught me crossing. (If you picture a sort of audio cone from stairs on A site mirrage, I could hear he was in the direction of CT, I just couldn't fully pinpoit where he was within that cone.
 
Trying to be as detailed as I can with this explanation, HERE is a diagram of what I mean by "audio cone" and essentially what i mean by 'offset audio':
Blue is the enemy and his movement path
Green is my character
Pink is where I thought I heard the enemy was
Purple is where the enemy actually was
Red is quite obviously the audio cone in which im refering to
 
Of course if you don't even play CS:GO this was all for nothing, but maybe you can still understand what I mean by the audio feels slightly out of place (offset) as this is essentially my problem in most fps games/situations regardless of the game, map or various audio settings.
 
Dec 18, 2016 at 5:17 PM Post #19 of 35
Yep, i play CS:GO and that looks like a pretty big offset, what is strange especially if compared to some reviews and threads i read. I'm not experienced when it comes to headphones, but after all the research i did, i saw some complains about unbalance on the X2s, could this be causing the offset problem?  I hope that is your speaker's port fault and changing to the SB-Z or to the motherboard solves your issue. If you end up trying your motherboard's port please share with us the results.
 
Best of luck.
 
EDIT: english is hard...
 
Dec 18, 2016 at 5:35 PM Post #20 of 35
Do you have stereo balance controls available to you? It may simply be that the matching between the drivers isn't fantastic on your specific set, and dialing the balance more towards center could help with imaging. :xf_eek:

EDIT

Re-read this and noted it may not be entirely clear:

"Dialing the balance more towards the center" -> more towards what is centered with potentially unmatched drivers. It will be physically setting the control towards left or right, but will sound more centered. :)
 
Dec 20, 2016 at 12:38 PM Post #22 of 35
Soundblaster Z is ordered! I'll try and remember to throw an update here some time around christmas; and on that note, Happy Holidays to you all :D
 
Hopefully it solves my issues and I dont have to throw more money at my setup. Thank you all for your help so far, it has been priceless.
 
 
  you may find this usefull: http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php 

I will make use of this! Thank you
 
 
Do you have stereo balance controls available to you? It may simply be that the matching between the drivers isn't fantastic on your specific set, and dialing the balance more towards center could help with imaging.
redface.gif


EDIT

Re-read this and noted it may not be entirely clear:

"Dialing the balance more towards the center" -> more towards what is centered with potentially unmatched drivers. It will be physically setting the control towards left or right, but will sound more centered.
smily_headphones1.gif

I used the above audio test link to test my "driver matching" and while it sounds perfectly centre for the most part, it sounds like it offsets a little as the frequency gets higher. Not sure if that's my mind playing games with me because I'm looking for it, or it could just be my ears, either way I'll try another test once my sound card arrives and post the results here.
 
Dec 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM Post #23 of 35
Quick update: I've now plugged in the sound card and have been using it for the past 30 minutes, immediate response is fantastic. Considering these headphones are 32Ohms and should be driven quite well by just about any device, using the SoundBlasterZ has improved volume levels immensely. I haven't gamed on them yet at all but litsening to music and watching shows has been drastically better. Already feeling the worth of purchasing this sound card, beating myself up that I didnt do it sooner. Will update my experience gaming on the fidelio X2's with this soundcard very soon.
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 9:04 AM Post #25 of 35
nice to read that, looking forward to the gaming impressions
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EDIT: can you try it directly on your mobo? to see if i need to buy a sound card right away or if i can wait a little
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 12:40 PM Post #26 of 35
can somebody tell me if the SoundBlasterZ would be an markable upgrade for my xfi titanium pro, as competitive gamer i´m also in desperate search for the best positional sound.
on saturday i get those two cans, ATH-AD700X and AKG702 and wonder if i would benefit from a newer soundcard
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 6:50 PM Post #27 of 35
No, very likely not. The X-Fi is still very respectable and competent at what it does - SoundCore is just newer. I don't recall the specifics of the Fatal1ty's headphone output, but that may be the only big difference. You didn't say how you were hooking things up though (it may be advisable to start a new thread depending on how much detail you want to get into).
 
Jan 2, 2017 at 10:58 PM Post #28 of 35
Okay so I've spent some time gaming with the fidelio x2's and there is definitely a noticable difference when using the soundcard: especially when using the scout mode within the sb-z software. The soundcard has amplified the headphones giving them a lot more versatility in volume levels which has allowed me to customise my "listening experience" better. Also, while I am one for hating on any form of virtual enhancement software like dolby surround/bass boost/EQ stuff because they always seem way over the top and make the audio "mushy" in my opinion, the surround features with the SB-Z software have actually helped with my in game listening; I would definitely recommend turning off the bass boost feature included with the surround though, it makes everything sound nice but it affects in game sounds and distorts them a little (for me at least). The scout mode is the best feature however, it literally boosted the positional accuracy that I was hearing tenfold, I dont know how or why it works but it definitely did. I was doing little tests during a faceit PUG on overpass, switching scout mode on and off, and there was such as noticeable difference: for example;
 
1) I was playing CT side on overpass sat in deep bathrooms towards long and I could hear the T's pushing from fountain onto balloons with ease. Furthermore, the closer they got the more accurate the audio was. I could hear exactly where they were on balloons based on their heavy steps and jumping etc to the point where I heard them drop off and prefired the angle killing both T's pushing.
 
2) Another scenario I was playing T side on overpass and my team played A-site, we pushed it and i decided to stay connector to wait for the flank. I could hear the exact footsteps of the enemy stepping through water, jumping up the ledge and running through connector where as soon as he reached the top of the stairs he shift walked and I peaked/prefired to kill him.
 
I've used the headphones on my motherboard briefly and while it was better than just using my speaker aux port, it really wasn't 'that' much better. It's hard to explain but it kind of sounded the exact same with a tiny bit more depth for the volume setting.
 
Jan 3, 2017 at 7:08 AM Post #29 of 35
nice to read that!!
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. did the positional audio also improved with the surround sound turned off? I'll buy an external dac/amp(Micca OriGen+) so it'll be nice to know how good stereo gaming is
 
Jan 3, 2017 at 11:29 AM Post #30 of 35
i´m really dissapointed with my new bought sb-z. onboard sound is better for positional things tbh, on both k702´s and ath-ad700x.
do u use a special driver or so, cause as i said my sound sucks big time with this card. bomb ticking is extremely loud the closer the timer is to detonate (disgustingly loud) and the footstep´s arent that great in scoutmode ether
 

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