mhamel said:

http://voxcaliber.com/is-dante-the-future-no-64-channel-digital-audio-over-ethernet-is-already-here/

Older article, but still interesting. I also came across this - which is only shown feeding their own products, but if it's outputting AES I would think it could feed a DAC.

https://www.k-array.com/en/kdante.html#

-- Edit - looks like it only supports 24/96 max for that KDante bridge.

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rb2013 said:

No not really - the F-1 is plug and play ready for SPDIF - just needs a case.  I ordered one on Ebay for $9, I have mine now mounted in a case left over from another project.

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sbgk said:

  did you see the J Swenson post on CA about the F-1, didn't think the xmos chip was adding much, thought it was mainly due to the fpga implementation. Your observation that the x1 is very good means that the xmos chip must be doing something good.
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/xmos-xu208-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-bridge-28366/#post536601
 
He's also posting in the Lan rover thread

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1)The latest xmos xCORE-200 includes unique hardware divider and it is used to generate bit-clock from master clock directly. 

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jfrocke said:

 

rb2013 said:

 
No not really - the F-1 is plug and play ready for SPDIF - just needs a case.  I ordered one on Ebay for $9, I have mine now mounted in a case left over from another project.

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Did you ever receive your cases? If so, which one is the better fit?

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prot said:

Ethernet audio seems to have a bit of momentum. And it's prolly the right way, especially for big studios. Not sure what that Dante is but the aes67 standard looks good to me. And you're right, no need for tcp, the ip level should be enough (in theory you can go even lower in the newtork stack but cant use switches&co anymore).
And btw, not sure exactly how it works but this looks like an interesting & cheap device https://www.minidsp.com/products/network-audio/avb-dg

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prot said:

Ethernet audio seems to have a bit of momentum. And it's prolly the right way, especially for big studios. Not sure what that Dante is but the aes67 standard looks good to me. And you're right, no need for tcp, the ip level should be enough (in theory you can go even lower in the newtork stack but cant use switches&co anymore).
And btw, not sure exactly how it works but this looks like an interesting & cheap device https://www.minidsp.com/products/network-audio/avb-dg

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Yes, the improved signal integrity and impedance match from a REGEN afterwards should still benefit.
I know a great deal more about this tech (ICRON's) and the implementations than I have time to write about right now, so I may share more later on. Don't want to step on PSA's toes at all as I think what they are doing (making people aware of an alternate solution) is great. To be clear though, ICRON introduced this piece in May 2013, so it is not brand new. It has just stayed way under the radar.
Cheers,
--Alex C.

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Like the traditional extender from Icron, the CAT5e cable was a classic point to point type, the protocol to extend USB2 could not be routable over switches. This is what I have for quite some time now using dedicated Cat5e cable, and helps with the Intona's often fickle handshaking processes.
Instead of Cat 5e, it's possible to use Fibre Optic cabling to achieve isolation, but the modules attract a 30-45% price premium over the Cat5e versions.

For the LanRover, and the Star Tech OEM product, it appears to code the USB in Ethernet packets or whatever magik they use in the transmitter, and the receiver picks up the same "encoded" message at the other end, like a typical (and reliable) broadcast method. In this case, it is necessary to have the two units, and for a home LAN is certainly workable if network cabling or Wi-fi exists.

The other issue is the power supply to drive the LanRover. Icron supply (for my model) a 24V 1A SMPS. Sbooster are about to release a 24V 1.3A linear supply in the next few months something, so will need to wait. The high current demand is assumed to cope with 2 x 500mA spec at the receiver end. For a audio use with a DAC, the current demand maybe anywhere between nothing and often 300mA or more.

As pointed out by Albrecht, the plus is the noisy computer especially pumping DSD512 can be at some distance away from the audio rack. Conducted noise will still be a problem, but with the differential circuitry for Ethernet will knock a lot of this on the head. There is of course PHY matters to deal with both at the USB and Ethernet sides.

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 Well the goal in commercial applications isn't networking & linking two computers. The goal is to extend the distance between USB peripheral devices. (Like USB cameras between conference rooms on different floors of large organizations). Take a USB device, (signal), convert it to TCP/IP, - broadcast it as TCP/IP over a great distance, (there are also fiber USB converters), build a new USB signal at the other end, - and plug into the PC.
In audio, the USB DAC is similar to a USB peripheral like a camera. Only it requires so much more, and a much better USB signal. Stripping away the power from the USB, converting the signal to the TCP/IP protocol, - then rebuilding the now isolated, new, USB signal is going to much better even for a short run of USB that normally would carry all of that "pollution" from a computer's USB bus.

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  JohnSwenson

Junior Member Join Date
Jun 2009
Posts
561
 

Note that most of the ICRON products are straight extenders, a piece of CAT5e goes between the two boxes. Many of these do say they support isochronous streams so they should support audio. Only the devices that have "LAN" in their part numbers are designed to plug into an existing network and go through switches etc. Of THOSE most specifically say they do not support audio. There just seems to be one device that is a LAN type and supports audio: RG2304GE-LAN. This is an OEM part which is probably what PSA is using.

John S.

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 Can you be more specific? Are you referring to DLNA, AES67, or other audio-over-IP set ups? These all have their own issues, chief among them being software player restrictions.

The ICRON ExtremeUSB code for their extenders and LAN products is actually quite good--no drivers are required and some of the versions are capable enough (assuming you have a gigabit switch to handle the overhead and QOS) to handle isochronous audio. Despite some misinformation floating out there, none of the competitors come close to what ICRON has done (their whole company is built around this stuff).

That said, the endpoint USB output, despite benefiting from galvanic isolation, will still benefit from improved signal integrity, impedance match, voltage regulation, and clocking.

BTW, the ICRON/LANRover supports sending to more that one endpoint--even at the same time! So one could have up to 4 DACs with their REX (what the call the receiving endpoint) units (in separate rooms), and the one computer can send to any of them--possibly even more than one at the same time! I say possibly because even ICRON has not tested multiple simultaneous isochronous audio streams. There is the issue of what the host/player computer makes of all this. I mean, can you launch multiple instances of your music player and tell each one to play to a different DAC? The ICRON LEX (the Local End Extender attached to the host computer) will "see" DACs (or mice, whatever) at the ports of multiple REX units, but can you really play a separate stream to each? I am 95% certain you can not play the one same stream to multiple units--the product pairs with MAC addresses.

--Alex C.

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What Is AES67?

1. It is an interoperability standard
2. It is for audio transport only
3. It isn't a complete system. AES 67 is a feature or option in a wider audio system which can fulfil other tasks such as routing, monitoring, discovery or system control.

Why All The Fuss About AES67?

It is deployable - It is very limited in its scope. It does audio transport and that's all, by audio transport I mean moving audio around a network, I'm not talking about tape machine style transport controls. As a result it is easier to get adopted by third parties. More importantly it is Layer 3 and compatible with any modern gigabit switch and therefore doesn't present as many issues with existing IT infrastructure. The tight focus on the "network" part of network audio, using existing hardware has meant that it has come to market quickly and in an area which is developing as quickly as this that is a big advantage.

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There are many things which make AES67 exciting. One of the most significant is that it is very limited in scope. The two technologies which have received the most attention on the blog are Dante, as implemented by Focusrite in their RedNet systems, and AVB which Avid are using in their S3L live sound system. The biggest differences between these two systems are that Dante is proprietary and operates on layer 3 of the OSI 7 layer model. AVB is an open set of standards and it operates on Layer 2. While AVB is a fantastic technology, it is broad in scope and its future definitely lies in more areas than just pro audio. The biggest limitation on its uptake in pro audio is probably the relative indifference end users have to which technology they use combined with the fact that Ethernet switches used on an AVB network have to have specific AVB features, ruling out old or non-AVB switches. AES67 is an interoperable stream with moderate latency, each data packet contains roughly a millisecond of audio and the total latency is 6ms, though lower and higher latencies are available as an option. It supports both multicasting and unicasting - multicasting makes all streams available everywhere but requires good quality switches. Unicasting is useful for point to point scenarios over distance where the quality of switches can't be guaranteed. AES67 speakers are coming, the Genelec 4020A prototype has AES67/Ravenna inputs eliminating the need for any extra network node/AD-DA hardware. Just plug the RJ45 into the back of the speaker - install designers will love that! Just as important as what AES67 does is what it doesn't do. It offers no routing and control protocols, no online metering or remote control and no easy web GUI management. 

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About RedNet

RedNet is Focusrite’s range of modular audio over IP interfaces that harnesses the power of Audinate’s tried and tested Dante digital audio networking protocol to bring studio quality sound to any modern audio application.
Designed with multiple audio applications in mind – from live sound to multi-room recording studios, from houses of worship to audio distribution installations, and from post-production to broadcast environments and anything in between – RedNet provides a comprehensive range of Dante-enabled audio interfaces that can be used to expand I/O channel count, interface digital components, and/or bridge between Pro Tools|HD, MADI or AES environments and a Dante audio network.
Due to their modular design, RedNet units can be integrated into any existing Dante eco-system, or can be pieced together to form a brand new digital audio network.
Incorporating Focusrite’s most advanced AD/DA conversion to date, rock-stable JetPLL clocking and premium multi-layer board circuitry, RedNet demonstrates Focusrite's philosophy that ‘Sound is Everything’. With every design detail meticulously engineered, RedNet provides some of the most transparent and pristine audio quality available – with the added benefit of Dante's revolutionary networking capabilities.

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That’s just one of the promises of RedNet, the professional audio networking system from Focusrite. RedNet couples high-quality audio
interfaces – for mic, line and instrument inputs and much more – with standard Ethernet cabling and Gigabit Ethernet switches, to
let you place your inputs and outputs simply, effi ciently and economically, where they need to be, with the superb, world-leading quality and
precision audio performance you have come toexpect from Focusrite.  
THIS IS REDNET
RedNet is a system that enables you to distribute audio at near zero-latency and high channel counts through standard Ethernet
cabling. At its heart is DanteTM, the robustdigital audio networking technology developed by Audinate. Dante uses standard IP-based
networking components, such as Ethernet cables, routers and switches, to carry a virtually unlimited number of channels of high-resolution digital audio over a standard Ethernet network. Dante has been tried and tested in the live sound arena for years, where it is effectively
a de facto standard.
 
Now Focusrite brings Dante into the studio as part of a complete audio system. RedNet comprises a range of extremely high-quality
audio interfaces and components that do more than save you time and money on cabling: they revolutionise the way you work across
the board.  Unlike other digital audio systems, RedNet is non-proprietary. Your audio computer system can run any audio software you want: you
are not locked into a single system. RedNet is fully-compatible with any ASIO or Core Audio compliant DAW software, including
Pro Tools®, Logic® and Nuendo®.

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Overview

RedNet 3 interfaces your existing digital audio systems and components to the RedNet network, with up to 32 inputs and outputs and full software remote control. The unit includes support for AES/EBU, S/PDIF and ADAT (16 ADAT optical ports support 32 digital channels in and out – even at 96kHz, with S-MUX2) digital audio formats and allows the RedNet system to be synchronised to incoming signal clock or a word clock source.

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rb2013 said:

 
This is a huge difference!  The Slimdvices had lousy clocks needed and were modded to get any where decent SQ.
 
What this 1GB Ethernet LAN USB extenders do is monumental!  First IF Paul McGowen's comments about SQ improvements to normal USB audio are true this is a sea change amongst tidal waves already.  The reason - is SYNERGIES! First take the ubiquitous USB (MAC, WIN or LINUX) audio of today's computerland - link it (and refine it) with near sota Hi Fidelity - and it's plug and play nature - offering thousands of DDC/DAC solutions from $40 to $80,000.  Now add on top the latest performance enhancers for USB like the Regen, Recovery, and iPurifier2 - to achieve remarkable SQ improvements.  And wrap this all in a LAN/WiFI  friendly Audio IP connectivity (toss in galvanic isolation) - and well this is what is so exciting about what has happened here on this thread today.

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