XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED!

muziqboy said:

 
Do you mind sharing the password?
My F-1 should arrive on Monday and not sure if there will be Windows driver provided.
Thanks!

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I don´t have the password, deleted the mail.
But I can upload the driver to dropbox or similar later, maybe tomorrow.
Currently at work and can´t do that right now.
 
Check your pm later.

hugoboss said:

  the box version su-1 , the price is double the no box version f-1
but you got more output then the no box

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Yes exactly - and it has it's own power supply.  What the details of that ps remain to be seen.  From the long experience with these AC powered DDC's, the power supply design and components go along way to the SQ, along with the audio clocks.
 
The Breeze DU-U8 sounded so good because of the dual stage power filtering and the excellent LDO regulators.  Even the torodial transformers made a difference the better (and more expensive) Talema better then the generic BingZi (see my ranking and rating at the bottom of the opening page of this thread).
Ideally the SU-1 will have an R-Core transformer - they are the best at PSRR (power supply ripple rejection).  I'm using a TeraDak DC-30W to feed the Recovery, it has an R-Core.  Unfortunately, it does not have very good LDO regulators- so I added the iFi DC iPurifier to filter that noise.
 
The W4S Recovery has it's own very good ultra low noise regulators - taking 7-9VDC and stepping it down to 5VDC after filtering.  As a final filtering stage - I have a iPurifier2 between the Recovery and the F-1.  That reclocks the USB and improves the data packet signal integrity (as does the Recovery).  So the power to the Recovey's USB clocks is very clean (triple regulated), then that is once more ultra low noise 5uv regulated power and cleaned data stream to be reclocked once more by the iPurifer2's clocks.  Finally that ultra pure/high signal integrity data stream 1uv clean power enters the F-1.
 
Each step eliminating grunge and harshness...what's left is just magical sounding!
 
Here is the board on the Breeze (Bingzi)


Breeze (Talema)

 
My TeraDak DC-30W

 
iFi DC iPurifier:
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/
 

 
Across the audible range, measured noise is improved by 316x to 100,000x or by 50dB to 100dB respectively.
Sonically, the background and inner resolution to recordings is brought to the fore and no longer hidden. Sonics are much smoother, just like how good analogue should be. Nothing comes close.

 

Ultra wide-band design, effective from 1Hz to above 5GHz
iFi leaves no stone unturned; the DC iPurifier is a ground-up, ultra-wide band design.
Effective from 1Hz all the way up to 5GHz. Crucially the strongest performance is in the audible range of 20Hz to 20KHz.

Wyred for Sound Recovery:
https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/recovery
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/03/fighting-fit-usb-audio-from-wyred4sounds-recovery/
 


 
Lastly the iFi iPurifer2:
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier2/
 

USB A, B, C and micro sockets	Established and advanced new features	Active Noise Cancellation®
iFi USB audio technology is unsurpassed	REclock®/REbalance®/REgenerate®	100 times reduction in noise

 
 
My chain:

caper said:

 
Ok, I will try and see if it works.
If not, put the Aqvox to feed the F1 directly.
Aqvox psu delivers 1000mA if I remember correctly.

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Yes the Aqvox is 1000mA - more then enough.  The Recovery supplies up to 1000mA as well (fed 3A from the TeraDak).

Any idea how the F-1 compares to other DiY boards like the Amanero, WaveIO or DiYinHK module?
 
Also, I'd imagine something like this would be pretty good when it comes to powering the F-1.
 
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
 
No need for all the power filtering when the initial supply is already good, right?

bucketinabucket said:

  Any idea how the F-1 compares to other DiY boards like the Amanero, WaveIO or DiYinHK module?
 
Also, I'd imagine something like this would be pretty good when it comes to powering the F-1.
 
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
 
No need for all the power filtering when the initial supply is already good, right?

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Well I had a DIYinHK Pro3a - it's very good - but the F-1 is a whole other league.  I'll be getting the new Pro4a - that is based on the new XCore 200 XMOS chips.  Someone with a new Amanero board just ordered the F-1 - so we'll see.
 
I have a iPower 9VDC (I use it to power my W4S Remedy) and a iPower 5VDC (I use to power my PCIe PPA V2 USB card), it's pretty good, esp for the money - but they're still SMPS's.  The Linear DC-30W with the DC iPur is much better - of course more expensive.  Once my system is set, I may get a Paul Hynes LPS.  Our  power today is so dirty and unstable it needs multiple levels of regulation and filtering.
 
I didn't mention the DC-30W has a Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme power cord and that is plugged into a common mode and differential mode isolated line filter (Art Audio PB4X4Pro) that is plugged into an Audience 1Rp AC rebalancer and filter - Teslaplex wall socket.
 
The more I experimented with digital high end audio  -  the more I realize how important ultra clean power is.  My Analog system not near so much.  The digital devices themselves create all kinds of noise - SMPS power supplies the worst!.  Best to run your DDC on a AC line isolator separate from the DAC.

The issue is these femto second clocks are extremely sensitive to power noise - creating jitter - the FPGA's themselves create jitter.  Much has been written on this by Uptone Engineer John Swenson: all sorts of causes from impedance mismatching, line noise, packet noise created by the AGC control in the USB reciever chip, PHY noise, PC noise (CPU induced, SMPS induced), and so forth. 
 
At least to my ears removing each layer of grunge has paid off in terms of detail, clarity, bass depth and control, sound staging, dynamics, and most important tonal realism and musicality.
 
I posted a lot of stuff from Swenson on my old Gustard U12 thread - but here is a portion explaining USB 'Packet Noise' and why it's so important to have your DDC outside the DAC.  The PHY USB packet processing and AGC cycling can cause jitter that then feedback into the DAC's femto clocks.  It's very hard to filter out as Swenson explains (in other words it can cross isolation - even galvanic!)
 

So in order to fix this jitter on the I2S signals we “reclock” them with a flip flop clocked by the master clock. BUT the signals going into the flop also cause ground plane noise with a spectrum related to the jitter on the inputs, AND some of the transistors inside the flop are also switching based on the input signals, adding to the ground plane noise correlated to the “jittery” inputs. So why bother reclocking? It DOES decrease jitter, it just doesn’t eliminate it. If the I2S signals have quite a bit of jitter, the reclocking can cut it down by quite a bit, but there is STILL jitter on the output that is correlated to the input jitter AND there is noise on the ground plane related to the input signals that can influence the clock, clock mux, and DAC chip. So while reclocking can help, it is not a panacea.

 ​

So now the crux of the matter, how can what goes into the USB receiver affect any of this? In several ways: packet jitter, edge jitter, PLLs. I’ll go over each of these.​

Packet jitter is the difference in the arrival time of packets to the receiver chip. USB packets are transmitted over the bus at either 1000 per second (full speed mode) or 8000 per second (high speed mode). Every time one of those packets hits the receiver a lot of activity happens inside the receiver chip. This creates lots of noise inside the chip and on the ground plane. This causes a lot of jitter on the outputs from the chip. The spectrum of this noise and jitter has a VERY strong component at either 1KHz or 8KHz, both of which are directly in the audio range. Any changes in the arrival time of the packets will change the spectrum of this packet noise. In the next installment I’ll cover what causes this packet jitter.​

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"As with everything else I have been talking about, jitter on the input can cause noise in the chip and on the ground plane that is related to the spectrum of the jitter. This is where things like different cables can have an effect on what is happening."​

 ​

Next is edge jitter, this is traditional jitter of the individual edges on the bus. As with everything else I have been talking about, jitter on the input can cause noise in the chip and on the ground plane that is related to the spectrum of the jitter. This is where things like different cables can have an effect on what is happening.​

Next is PLLs. Every USB receiver chip has at least one if not more PLLs. These PLLs are affected by both the previous types of jitter and since almost all the circuitry inside the chip is clocked by these PLLs, the jitter on output signals and ground plane noise is going to be significantly affected by the noise spectrum coming out of the PLLs. This is filtered by the PLL loop filter, but there are still major components related to the input jitter.​

 ​

So how do we keep all this noise from the USB receiver from getting to our sensitive DAC circuits? It’s called ground plane isolation. You have separate ground planes for the USB receiver and the rest of the DAC circuitry. This DOES prevent ground plane noise from crossing over. BUT if you cut the ground plane there is no way for the return current from the signals crossing the boundary (the I2S signals and clock etc) to get between the “ground domains”. The solution is digital isolators. There are many different technologies to choose from, one most people are familiar with is opto-couplers. Some of these actually add huge amounts of jitter to the signals going through them so are bad choices for our purposes.​

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https://www.by-rutgers.nl/PDFiles/Audio%20Jitter.pdf
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-1-what-digital#VzTvSohBL0PzsJUs.97
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits#BclHdfvQYZlSlXHh.97
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-3-how-bit-perfect-software-can-affect-sound#pzHHzo84Jp426Oxj.97

rb2013 said:

 
Well I had a DIYinHK Pro3a - it's very good - but the F-1 is a whole other league.  I'll be getting the new Pro4a - that is based on the new XCore 200 XMOS chips.  Someone with a new Amanero board just ordered the F-1 - so we'll see.

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Hmm, I assume that's the old verses the new DiYinHK board. Didn't know they had classifications like that!
 
The F-1 is almost twice as expensive as the 4A, but that doesn't mean anything without a meaningful comparison.
 

rb2013 said:

  I have a iPower 9VDC (I use it to power my W4S Remedy) and a iPower 5VDC (I use to power my PCIe PPA V2 USB card), it's pretty good, esp for the money - but they're still SMPS's.  The Linear DC-30W with the DC iPur is much better - of course more expensive.  Once my system is set, I may get a Paul Hynes LPS.  Our  power today is so dirty and unstable it needs multiple levels of regulation and filtering.

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I wonder how the DiY options stack up, like the AMB Sigma11 or the DiYinHK 5VDC regulators. Since the F1 board is a bare PCB, I reckon that a lot of the people interested in it have at least some skill in DiY which is why I'm asking. 
 

rb2013 said:

  I didn't mention the DC-30W has a Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme power cord and that is plugged into a common mode and differential mode isolated line filter (Art Audio PB4X4Pro) that is plugged into an Audience 1Rp AC rebalancer and filter - Teslaplex wall socket.
 
The more I experimented with digital high end audio  -  the more I realize how important ultra clean power is.  My Analog system not near so much.  The digital devices themselves create all kinds of noise - SMPS power supplies the worst!.  Best to run your DDC on a AC line isolator separate from the DAC.

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Another reason for DiY is that a sufficiently skilled DiYer can put all those into one box for a very clean and simple power supply solution. 

bucketinabucket said:

  Hmm, I assume that's the old verses the new DiYinHK board. Didn't know they had classifications like that!
 
The F-1 is almost twice as expensive as the 4A, but that doesn't mean anything without a meaningful comparison.
 
I wonder how the DiY options stack up, like the AMB Sigma11 or the DiYinHK 5VDC regulators. Since the F1 board is a bare PCB, I reckon that a lot of the people interested in it have at least some skill in DiY which is why I'm asking. 
 
Another reason for DiY is that a sufficiently skilled DiYer can put all those into one box for a very clean and simple power supply solution. 

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No not really - the F-1 is plug and play ready for SPDIF - just needs a case.  I ordered one on Ebay for $9, I have mine now mounted in a case left over from another project.  For i2s you need a cable.  I don't care about i2s (recently I posted a whole host of new totl statement DACs from some of the top audio designers - from $2,400 to $15,000 none of which has i2s.  In my opinion nice, but not nessecary for sota audio).
 
Now the DIYinHK board does require DIY skills for power and output connections.  The DXIO PROa series does not  - it's plug and play as well.
 
Well the Cerious Graphene is a power cord - it would not go inside anything.  You would have to have one massive box to fit all this - and you may not need it -depending on how resolving or refined your system is.
 
I've spent over 25yrs refining mine - and it's highly resolving - I can easily hear these changes.  Some not always for the better - those I discard and keep experimenting, it'll never end.  Not at least as long as I'm alive.

rb2013 said:

 
No not really - the F-1 is plug and play ready for SPDIF - just needs a case.  I ordered one on Ebay for $9, I have mine now mounted in a case left over from another project.  For i2s you need a cable.  I don't care about i2s (recently I posted a whole host of new totl statement DACs from some of the top audio designers - from $2,400 to $15,000 none of which has i2s.  In my opinion nice, but not nessecary for sota audio).

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The F1 is bus-powered then?
 

rb2013 said:

   
Well the Cerious Graphene is a power cord - it would not go inside anything.  You would have to have one massive box to fit all this - and you may not need it -depending on how resolving or refined your system is.
 
I've spent over 25yrs refining mine - and it's highly resolving - I can easily hear these changes.  Some not always for the better - those I discard and keep experimenting, it'll never end.  Not at least as long as I'm alive.

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Oh, fair enough, I actually had no idea that DiYinHK offered boxed solutions. 
 

rb2013 said:

  Well the Cerious Graphene is a power cord - it would not go inside anything.  You would have to have one massive box to fit all this - and you may not need it -depending on how resolving or refined your system is.

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You plug it into the one-box solution if required  

Info on the Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme power chord - I ordered one of their digital cables and it's on the way.
I've tried at least 20 different power cords - this is the best yet - and very reasonably priced:
http://www.cerioustechnologies.com/cables/lcPowerCords.html
 
The Art Audio PB4X4 Pro AC line filters:
http://artproaudio.com/power_solutions/product/pb4x4_pro/
 

All PRO SERIES models have an additional internal discrete module called APF™ (Advanced Power Filtering) which filters out digital and dimmer hash as well as any high frequency noise that is above the audio range. Some off-the-shelf add-on modules saturate and lose their filtering effectiveness as the load increases, but by using a high power discrete design we were able to create a filter that stays effective over the full operating range.
By using both Common Mode and Differential Mode topologies in series for the filter design we are able to block virtually all of the unwanted noise that is between the AC line and ground, and also the two sides of the AC line. This has the additional benefit of reducing ground loop problems in your system. High frequency noise currents in particular are highly attenuated in both directions so that any line noise that could be generated by one of your components is not allowed to get back into your main A.C. wiring so if you use a number of PRO SERIES Power Conditioners in your setup, you can distribute and isolate the noisy components from the sensitive components in your system. Additionally, any signals above 10kHz are filtered from the line with over 40dB of attenuation above 100kHz and beyond.
 

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rb2013 said:

 
Yes the Aqvox is 1000mA - more then enough.  The Recovery supplies up to 1000mA as well (fed 3A from the TeraDak).

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I read about the Intona:
300mA nominal (500mA max.) output current on isolated side
 
So guess no luck having the Intona feed the power.
Will put the Aqvox to that task instead.

bucketinabucket said:

  The F1 is bus-powered then?
 
Oh, fair enough, I actually had no idea that DiYinHK offered boxed solutions. 
 
You plug it into the one-box solution if required 

 

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Yes USB powered - I use a W4S Recovery which has an external power port - that feeds clean +5VDC power to the F-1.  BTW I had really great success with the Uptone Regen as well, same it has an external power port.
 
Here is the previous (now sold out) DIYinHK DXIO Pro3a - based on the XMOS U8.  The new Pro4a will be based on either the XU216 or XU208:

caper said:

  I read about the Intona:
300mA nominal (500mA max.) output current on isolated side
 
So guess no luck having the Intona feed the power.
Will put the Aqvox to that task instead.

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Thanks for that - although the USB std is 500mA, many devices draw more then that.  I know my old PUC2 Lite drew 800mA.  Not sure about the F-1.  Better be safe then sorry and feed it the Aqvox directly.
 
This is one of the drawbacks of the Intona.  Uptone is coming out with a Uber-Regen (i posted details a few pages ago) that will have better clocks then the Intona (el cheapo SITime ones) and do a host of other neat things, including galvanic isolation.

rb2013 said:

  Info on the Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme power chord - I ordered one of their digital cables and it's on the way.
I've tried at least 20 different power cords - this is the best yet - and very reasonably priced:
http://www.cerioustechnologies.com/cables/lcPowerCords.html
 
The Art Audio PB4X4 Pro AC line filters:
http://artproaudio.com/power_solutions/product/pb4x4_pro/
 

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The line filter seems reasonable. The power cables on the other hand...

bucketinabucket said:

  The line filter seems reasonable. The power cables on the other hand...

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I hear you!  Or should I say I hear them - but like I said my system is quite abit different then most folks YMMV!