Talking about downgrade, now this is a upgrade for F-1 owner. It will boost F-1's performance to at least the same level as SU-1 if not better at expense of couple of dollars.
 
(1) Remove Mornsun B0505S (pink circle) which at worst will generate 100mV noise at isolation section
(2) Replace generic 3.3V LDO (orange circle) which provide power to Xilinx cpld with ADP150AUJZ-3.3-R7 (~1.0$) - the same ultra low noise LDO (white circle) used to drive the two CCHD XO.
(3) Also replace the same generic 3.3V LDO (red circle) used for XMOS with ADP150AUJZ-3.3-R7 (~1.0$); with this mod you should not need any external 5V for the USB.
(4) Use 18605 Li-ion battery to drive the isolation section directly (green circle): Since both LDO on the isolation section are ADP150, they will work fine as long as the input voltage is between 3.4V ~ 5.5V, thus Li-ion battery is perfect for this job. The measured power consumption is 44.1mA on my F-1, so a single 2700mAh 18650 battery will give you around 40~50 hours listening.
 

luckbad said:

Compared to the F-1, the SU-1 has better extension both ways and a more powerful overall sound.

My only critique of the F-1 stock was a slight swooshy airy sound in the highs. Not quite USB/digital hash. The SU-1 doesn't have that at all.

Click to expand...

 
Hello
 
Thank you very much for the feedback.
Looking at the XU208 "finished" products (linear power supply equipped, multiples entries) so far only Singxer SU-1 on the market.
 
Do you foresee any new comer in the competition soon ?
 
Thx

luckbad said:

Compared to the F-1, the SU-1 has better extension both ways and a more powerful overall sound.

My only critique of the F-1 stock was a slight swooshy airy sound in the highs. Not quite USB/digital hash. The SU-1 doesn't have that at all.

Click to expand...

Great info and the first comparison I've seen.   Many thanks!

Hello,
 
Just ordered the SU-1, hope this will be a good improvement over the Breeze U8 ...
 
Rgds
P

luckbad said:

Compared to the F-1, the SU-1 has better extension both ways and a more powerful overall sound.

My only critique of the F-1 stock was a slight swooshy airy sound in the highs. Not quite USB/digital hash. The SU-1 doesn't have that at all.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Changing my order

luckbad said:

Compared to the F-1, the SU-1 has better extension both ways and a more powerful overall sound.

My only critique of the F-1 stock was a slight swooshy airy sound in the highs. Not quite USB/digital hash. The SU-1 doesn't have that at all.

Click to expand...

 
Thanks for the comparison.
 
I had gone with the F-1 based on the assumption that being able to power it with a power source of choice such as a battery setup would make it superior.
 
Now I'm quite curious to compare them here myself.

sanlitun said:

   
Thanks for the comparison.
 
I had gone with the F-1 based on the assumption that being able to power it with a power source of choice such as a battery setup would make it superior.
 
Now I'm quite curious to compare them here myself.

Click to expand...

If you bypass the isolation DC-DC converter like the one guy just posted about, they're probably very close in performance.

I am not an EE, cannot even solder well, but one thing I noticed on the U1 from the board photos is that it seems to have the power from the main transformer entering the board on the output side of the moat (if I understand this isolation stuff correctly).
 
https://world.taobao.com/item/528898172401.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a219r.lm0.14.1.pCXMpL&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail
 
My older Tanly DDC has 2 power inputs into the card, seems one on input side side and one on output side.
 
So I wonder if the U1 is using the 5V USB line power for the input side electronics and the on-board PS for the output side. I was also wondering if you could easily just change the PS to a big battery or high end LPS, just by plugging the substitute PS into the connector on the board.
 
Seems to me something like 2x the new Uptone UltraCap PS would be cool (if it offers sufficient power and correct voltages), that would offer separately sourced and independently isolated sota power for the DDC.... and even though a big investment, the UltraCap is a pretty flexible device with possibly a high resale value.  

motberg said:

  I am not an EE, cannot even solder well, but one thing I noticed on the U1 from the board photos is that it seems to have the power from the main transformer entering the board on the output side of the moat (if I understand this isolation stuff correctly).
 
https://world.taobao.com/item/528898172401.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a219r.lm0.14.1.pCXMpL&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail
 
My older Tanly DDC has 2 power inputs into the card, seems one on input side side and one on output side.
 
So I wonder if the U1 is using the 5V USB line power for the input side electronics and the on-board PS for the output side. I was also wondering if you could easily just change the PS to a big battery or high end LPS, just by plugging the substitute PS into the connector on the board.
 
Seems to me something like 2x the new Uptone UltraCap PS would be cool (if it offers sufficient power and correct voltages), that would offer separately sourced and independently isolated sota power for the DDC.... and even though a big investment, the UltraCap is a pretty flexible device with possibly a high resale value.  

Click to expand...

 
Yes, only the output side - after isolation - is powered by the internal linear power supply.
You certainly don't want to use the same power supply for both side of the isolation chip, otherwise you defeat it's purpose.
 
You can of course replace the internal LPS with a battery, if you so desire.
 
You could also isolate the input 5V on the USB port and add a separate isolated power supply to feed the "dirty" side of the SU-1. To what benefit? Hard to tell.
The isolation chip seems to do a very good job on the F-1, for which everything is derived from the "dirty" source USB supply.

It's worth pointing out that I'm comparing the stock F-1 and SU-1.

I have no experience with modded or decrapified versions of either.

Hi everybody,
 
I just wanted to give a short feedback: Thanks to this thread I became aware of this USB bridge, bought the F1, and it is incredible.
 
My 'problem' was that my chain was very detailed and satisfying via headphones, but not so much via loudspeakers. Something was holding back and I didn't like to listen at loud levels. The music did not become quite room-filling - I don't know how else to describe it. I was already worried that my amplifiers might not be up to the task.
 
Strangly, not feeding my Gumby via USB from the computer, but from an Apple TV via Toslink was much better, not so detailed and resolved, but not strangled as described above. I concluded it must be the USB input of the Gumby.
 
With the F1, this effect is completely gone. I can enjoy the music at loud levels (mainly accustic music, orchestras, piano, chamber music). The sound is also far smoother and more natural. I compared:
 
2009 Mac Mini / Audirvana ->  USB -> Gumby -> Parasound P5/A23 -> Brocksieper Minara:  problem as described
 
2009 Mac Mini / Audirvana ->  F1 -> Gumby (BNC) -> Parasound P5/A23 -> Brocksieper Minara:    way more natural and balanced sound; not a small effect!!!
 
2009 Mac Mini / Audirvana -> Wyrd -> F1 - > Gumby (BNC) -> Parasound P5/A23 -> Brocksieper Minara:    as above, but even smoother; I am in paradise.
 
Thank you for all the information and help here! This thread is a great resource!

luckbad said:

Compared to the F-1, the SU-1 has better extension both ways and a more powerful overall sound.

My only critique of the F-1 stock was a slight swooshy airy sound in the highs. Not quite USB/digital hash. The SU-1 doesn't have that at all.

Click to expand...

Not to surprising without some investment in a clean LPS power chain to the F-1, the Talema powered SU-1 would be expected to sound better. Esp at it's greater cost.
 

luckbad said:

It's worth pointing out that I'm comparing the stock F-1 and SU-1.

I have no experience with modded or decrapified versions of either.

Click to expand...

Now - a 'decrapified' F-1 should be at least an equal match for the SU-1.
 
Here is my power feed to the F-1 - W4S Recovery (ultra low noise regulation, Crystek CCHD reclocking and ext power port) - feed by a Teradak DC-30W/DC iPur>iPur2 (and level of ultra low noise <1uv power regulation)>F-1
 
That's a major step-up from a std F-1
 
Here are my current ratings:
 
Here would be my current ratings and rankings (the numbers are just a relative number - they are not percentages).  The Breeze Audio (Talema) DU-U8 = 100
 
Obviously these are my subjective ratings YMMV - and yes I have owned (had a loaner) all these for an extended period of time:
 
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB/SR Element Copper digital cable                            253
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB/Audience au24 se digital cable                              250
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF reclocker)                                                 240
REDNET 3/Cerious Power Cord                                                                               220
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB               170
Mutec 3+ Smart Clock USB/Cerious Power Cord                                                        155
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2                                                   145
PUC2 Lite TeraDak DC30W/Cerious/Regen                                                               135
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious                                                                                   135
DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious                                                                      130
Singxer X-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/iPur2                                                    125
PUC2 Lite - USB power                                                                                          110
Singxer F-1  Stock feed                                                                                          110
Breeze/Cerious Graph/WBT RCA Nexgen                                                                   109
Breeze DU-U8 with Cerious Graphene                                                                      108
Breeze DU-U8 (Talema version)                                                                              100
Breeze DU-U8 (BingZi version)                                                                                 95
Hydra Z with LPS                                                                                                    92
Melodious MX-U8 (upgraded caps)                                                                             85
Melodious MX-U8 (stock)                                                                                          81
Gustard U12 (upgraded caps)                                                                                    76
Gustard U12 stock                                                                                                   72
iDAC DAC2 (used as a DDC)                                                                                      65
Musiland USB3.0 US Dragon                                                                                      65
M2Tech EVO with LPS                                                                                              60
Audiophileo 2  USB Power                                                                                         50
M2Tech Hiface                                                                                                         40
 
Note the two major leaps - one by adding the ICRON/Startech GB LAN Iso Audio USB Extender into the chain.  Then the bigger leap away from USB completely to the REDNET3 Dante AES67 AOIP.  The Mutec 3+ did not help as an ext Word Clock to the RD3 - but after the RD3 as a SPDIF reclocker - excellent.

bbutcher said:

Talking about downgrade, now this is a upgrade for F-1 owner. It will boost F-1's performance to at least the same level as SU-1 if not better at expense of couple of dollars.

(1) Remove Mornsun B0505S (pink circle) which at worst will generate 100mV noise at isolation section
(2) Replace generic 3.3V LDO (orange circle) which provide power to Xilinx cpld with ADP150AUJZ-3.3-R7 (~1.0$) - the same ultra low noise LDO (white circle) used to drive the two CCHD XO.
(3) Also replace the same generic 3.3V LDO (red circle) used for XMOS with ADP150AUJZ-3.3-R7 (~1.0$); with this mod you should not need any external 5V for the USB.
(4) Use 18605 Li-ion battery to drive the isolation section directly (green circle): Since both LDO on the isolation section are ADP150, they will work fine as long as the input voltage is between 3.4V ~ 5.5V, thus Li-ion battery is perfect for this job. The measured power consumption is 44.1mA on my F-1, so a single 2700mAh 18650 battery will give you around 40~50 hours listening.

Click to expand...

Hi bButcher,

Nice work, how did you remove those LDO's? Do you have some tips, i tought it was a bit Risky. I have allso removed the Momsun and the orange circled LDO but not yet the other ones. I am Powering the 5 and the 3.3v with Dexa regulators and i am planning to power the regulators with a Zippy rc lifepo4 battery from Hobbyking.
I allso bought a w4s recovery wich sounds really good, a real imprrovement. I am allso going to power the recovery with an other lifepo4 battery. But here it comes, do you need to remove those other LDO's if i am powering everything with low noise batteries. Those lesser LDO' s when fed with low noise power will generate more noise???

RickyV

I couldn't get the Dixio Pro 3Z to work and sent it back. The seller just confirmed it was DOA and refunded the purchase price. He was very pleasant but of course I'm out the return shipping to HK. I don't know why it didn't work but it could have been packed better.
 
I ordered the Singxer SU-1.

rickyv said:

Hi bButcher,

Nice work, how did you remove those LDO's? Do you have some tips, i tought it was a bit Risky. I have allso removed the Momsun and the orange circled LDO but not yet the other ones. I am Powering the 5 and the 3.3v with Dexa regulators and i am planning to power the regulators with a Zippy rc lifepo4 battery from Hobbyking.
I allso bought a w4s recovery wich sounds really good, a real imprrovement. I am allso going to power the recovery with an other lifepo4 battery. But here it comes, do you need to remove those other LDO's if i am powering everything with low noise batteries. Those lesser LDO' s when fed with low noise power will generate more noise???

RickyV

Click to expand...

Hi RichkV,
 
To remove LDO's, first replace the solder tip with a flat one -  something like "http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_d.html", and if you have two solder irons then heat both side and cover all pins of LDO simultaneously. Another way is add a big glob of soldering tin such that all 5 pins of LDO can be heated at once.
 
The LDO for the XMOS is optional, I replace it too such that I won't wonder one day "what if ...", I know I will .., and I have 6 ADP150s.
 
A simple estimation of LDO output noise:  sqrt(selt generated noise^2 + noise due to input^2); noise due to input = power supply rejection ratio (PSRR)*input power noise
So even you have 0Vrms perfect source, LDO still will generate its rated noise - usually 50 ~ 100 uVrms for generic LDOs.
 
 
Best