TRINITY - PHANTOM Series - New thread + WORLDS FIRST PUSH PULL HYBRID IEM!*

[glassmonkey]

 

   
Sorry - it's nowhere near the HD600.  I don't know of any IEM that is, and expecting that sort of with and depth is a bit unrealistic with a sealed IEM.
 
It's a reasonably spacious sounding earphone, but it's not the width of stage or the depth which is the strong point.  The stage is probably about average for a good IEM. And that should actually tell you it is above average overall. It's strength lies more in its imaging, and very clear spatial cues.
 
And I 'm actually listening to the Sabre as I type this.  I'll try and give you a bit more info tomorrow.  Very late here - and I need to hit the sack.

Yep , that's clear , one sealed iem can not sound as an open back hp. Thats why I asked this.    

  Keep on!  Waiting for your impressions Brooko

It's not a sealed IEM, but the oBravo ERIB-2a has bigger soundstage than my HD600 and greater transparency. The ERIB-2a is pretty spectacular. I'm planning on getting the Master 6 and the ERIB-2a.

 

[Brooko]

To everyone waiting for these impressions - my apologies. I got hit with a computer virus a little over a week ago, and it wiped out a lot of data (last back up was three weeks ago) – including all my measurements, all my photos, and a lot of the reviews I've been working on.
 
As usual - the measurements are with Veritas and ARTA.  They are raw data only, and are included here more as a means of showing comparative differences than absolute measurements.  they should be reasonably accurate between 20 Hz and about 4-5 kHz.  Above 5 kHz my gear measures low.  Hopefully one day i can get it calibrated properly.

SABRE IMPRESSIONS

 
 
So if we go back time the last time I heard the Sabres – my conclusion was that they sounded pretty good, but ultimately had too much low end for my preferences (http://www.head-fi.org/t/796729/trinity-phantom-series-new-thread-worlds-first-push-pull-hybrid-iem/165#post_12333122)
 
I loved the mid-range and the lower treble, but I just found that bass a ltitle too much.
 
So what has changed?
 
We'll skip the comments on accessories and packaging. You guys know what comes with the Trinity line-up by now. I'm not sure what Bob is doing about the longer filters – and whether they are being included.
 

		[size=inherit][/size]
Sabres build is the same​	Good angle on the nozzles but fit is shallow​	2 pin connector - see Delta pics for better idea​

 
If you go back to my previous post, it covers build, fit and comfort. Nothing has changed there – but I will show you the Delta V2 connectors – as I think that is what will end up on the Sabre. These are actually pretty cool. The connector sockets protrude about 2mm outside the case, and they are encased in some pretty hard plastic. It is really sturdy. The connecting plug itself then fits over the protruding housing (really firm too), connecting the pins, and giving them a double layer of protection. It's a pretty nice set-up. The cable this time is the standard high quality cable you see on all of the other Trinity line-up.  See photos of the Delta 2 further down the page.
 

		[size=inherit][/size]
Note small vent/port​	Filter system same as Atlas​	Look inside the shell​

 
Fit is the same as last, time but this time there is zero driver flex. Fit is still shallow – but I'm getting a great seal with my Sony Isolation tips. Definitely the longer filters would help.
 
Filters
 
This time Bob told me just to use the filters from the Atlas. There isn't a lot of difference to be fair – mainly differing amounts of bass. My favourites are definitely the gunmetal (lightest bass), and to be fair, the red do add about 4-8 dB between sub and mid-bass, which will give some of you quite a lot of room to move.
 

 
Sonic Signature
 
The mid-range is pretty much the same as last time, a slight dip from about 800Hz-1kHz, then a rise through the upper mid-range. This gives the impression of a bit of distance which helps sound stage impressions. What I love though is how clean and clear this new tuning is. They are magic with female vocals – with anything really. If you liked Bob's tuning with the Atlas, but wanted a little less bass presence and a little more mid-range focus, you'll love these.
 
Male vocals are probably a little lean – they were on the Atlas and original Delta too. It's something you get used to pretty quickly anyway. What I really like with these is how clean they are. Very detailed – and they have a good grasp of overall fine detail (cymbal splashes etc) without triggering my sibilance.
 
Improvement?
 
So – are they an upgrade over the Atlas? For me yes – I was never that happy about the Atlas bass – it was just too much for my personal taste. The Sabre seems to have better control over the bass overall – its much better behaved, and a marked improvement over the old Delta as well. I can't compare to the Master as I'd need to have the two side-by-side, and I think Bob has more tuning to do with the Master before it is released. The Sabre is ready though. It's pretty darn good too.
 

 
Delta 2
 
I can't compare this with the Delta V2 at the moment – because unfortunately one of my drivers is bung (replacement coming – it happens – nothing to worry about).
 

		[size=inherit][/size]
Great cable - longer body​	Usual high quality cable components ​	The longer Delta V2​

 
What I can do is show you some pics of the Delta V2, and show the measurements of the good driver with the different filters. First, the fit on the Delta V2 for me is very good. They protrude a little more – but I'd still be able to sleep with them in. A lot will depend on your own anatomy – I have big canals so I can get quite a good deep fit. The shells are 12mm in diameter, and about 23mm from nozzle tip to the rear of the shell.
 

		[size=inherit][/size]
Filter mesh​	Removable cable connector​	Rear port​

 
The filters this time are one of the reasons I really liked the original Deltas. It isn't simply a variation on one aspect of the sound – much like the recent Atlas, and some other IEMs from other manufacturers (T10/T20 etc). This time there are some filters which are hollow, and some which are also internally damped. The range of changes is really good with these options – and it affects both upper mids and also mid-bass down. Total changes of all filters and also a single example of gold damped vs undamped is shown.
 

		[size=inherit][/size]
Inside the Delta V2 + damped filter​	Other side of the filter​	Full range of filters​

 
The Delta V2 comes with
 
1 pair gun-metal (damped)
2 pairs silver (one damped / one hollow)
2 pairs purple (one damped / one hollow)
2 pairs gold (one damped / one hollow)
 

		[size=inherit][/size]
Close up of purple - note tiny ports + damping ​	All of the filters​	Damped vs undamped gold​

 
And with this you can go from relatively balanced to very V shaped. I love it, and can't wait until the new driver shows up.
 
Bob – this is still the way I would personally run all your filters. It gives so much more control over very different sonics.
 
Ranking?
 
So how would I rank what I've heard so far?
 
Subjectively. I'd put the Sabre ahead technically – it is just super smooth and effortless, but for me the filter choices on the Delta V2 put it on equal footing. If the Sabre had the same filter choices - no question it would pull ahead. I'd rank old Delta next (I've always had a soft spot for it – again it comes down to tuning and filter choices). Atlas would be last – but again I need to stress that its just my personal thoughts on having too much bass. When we are originally tuning the Atlas, Bob sent me a pair of black ones – perfectly matched with the bass driver turned down quite a bit. I still have them and love them. They are unique. I know a lot of people love their Atlas – its just not my favourite sound.
 
Final question – what does Sabre most sound like. Tough question! It's pretty similar to Delta V2, but thats probably not helpful. So the other earphone I'd say it is relatively close to would be Dunu's Titan T5. Similar bass and upper mid-range signatures.
 
If anyone has any direct questions I'll try and answer them – but just remember:
- I don't have the Master with me.
- The Sabre is not final (but I thinks it is pretty close to final tuning)
- My Delta V2 is unfortunately broken, so I can't give you an idea of true comparison.
 
And here's a quick look at the size of the Delta V2 vs the original.
 

		[size=inherit][/size]
Old vs new Delta​	Main difference is length​	Very similar width​

 

[nealh]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

To everyone waiting for these impressions - my apologies. I got hit with a computer virus a little over a week ago, and it wiped out a lot of data (last back up was three weeks ago) – including all my measurements, all my photos, and a lot of the reviews I've been working on.


 


As usual - the measurements are with Veritas and ARTA.  They are raw data only, and are included here more as a means of showing comparative differences than absolute measurements.  they should be reasonably accurate between 20 Hz and about 4-5 kHz.  Above 5 kHz my gear measures low.  Hopefully one day i can get it calibrated properly.

SABRE IMPRESSIONS

 


 


So if we go back time the last time I heard the Sabres – my conclusion was that they sounded pretty good, but ultimately had too much low end for my preferences (http://www.head-fi.org/t/796729/trinity-phantom-series-new-thread-worlds-first-push-pull-hybrid-iem/165#post_12333122)


 


I loved the mid-range and the lower treble, but I just found that bass a ltitle too much.


 


So what has changed?


 


We'll skip the comments on accessories and packaging. You guys know what comes with the Trinity line-up by now. I'm not sure what Bob is doing about the longer filters – and whether they are being included.


 

	[COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR]	[SIZE=inherit][COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TD]Sabres build is the same[/TD]​

[TD]Good angle on the nozzles but fit is shallow[/TD]​

[TD]2 pin connector - see Delta pics for better idea[/TD]​

 


If you go back to my previous post, it covers build, fit and comfort. Nothing has changed there – but I will show you the Delta V2 connectors – as I think that is what will end up on the Sabre. These are actually pretty cool. The connector sockets protrude about 2mm outside the case, and they are encased in some pretty hard plastic. It is really sturdy. The connecting plug itself then fits over the protruding housing (really firm too), connecting the pins, and giving them a double layer of protection. It's a pretty nice set-up. The cable this time is the standard high quality cable you see on all of the other Trinity line-up.  See photos of the Delta 2 further down the page.


 

	[COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR]	[SIZE=inherit][COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TD]Note small vent/port[/TD]​

[TD]Filter system same as Atlas[/TD]​

[TD]Look inside the shell[/TD]​

 


Fit is the same as last, time but this time there is zero driver flex. Fit is still shallow – but I'm getting a great seal with my Sony Isolation tips. Definitely the longer filters would help.


 


Filters


 


This time Bob told me just to use the filters from the Atlas. There isn't a lot of difference to be fair – mainly differing amounts of bass. My favourites are definitely the gunmetal (lightest bass), and to be fair, the red do add about 4-8 dB between sub and mid-bass, which will give some of you quite a lot of room to move.


 






 


Sonic Signature


 


The mid-range is pretty much the same as last time, a slight dip from about 800Hz-1kHz, then a rise through the upper mid-range. This gives the impression of a bit of distance which helps sound stage impressions. What I love though is how clean and clear this new tuning is. They are magic with female vocals – with anything really. If you liked Bob's tuning with the Atlas, but wanted a little less bass presence and a little more mid-range focus, you'll love these.


 


Male vocals are probably a little lean – they were on the Atlas and original Delta too. It's something you get used to pretty quickly anyway. What I really like with these is how clean they are. Very detailed – and they have a good grasp of overall fine detail (cymbal splashes etc) without triggering my sibilance.


 


Improvement?


 


So – are they an upgrade over the Atlas? For me yes – I was never that happy about the Atlas bass – it was just too much for my personal taste. The Sabre seems to have better control over the bass overall – its much better behaved, and a marked improvement over the old Delta as well. I can't compare to the Master as I'd need to have the two side-by-side, and I think Bob has more tuning to do with the Master before it is released. The Sabre is ready though. It's pretty darn good too.


 






 


Delta 2


 


I can't compare this with the Delta V2 at the moment – because unfortunately one of my drivers is bung (replacement coming – it happens – nothing to worry about).


 

	[COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR]	[SIZE=inherit][COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TD]Great cable - longer body[/TD]​

[TD]Usual high quality cable components [/TD]​

[TD]The longer Delta V2[/TD]​

 


What I can do is show you some pics of the Delta V2, and show the measurements of the good driver with the different filters. First, the fit on the Delta V2 for me is very good. They protrude a little more – but I'd still be able to sleep with them in. A lot will depend on your own anatomy – I have big canals so I can get quite a good deep fit. The shells are 12mm in diameter, and about 23mm from nozzle tip to the rear of the shell.


 

	[COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR]	[SIZE=inherit][COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TD]Filter mesh[/TD]​

[TD]Removable cable connector[/TD]​

[TD]Rear port[/TD]​

 


The filters this time are one of the reasons I really liked the original Deltas. It isn't simply a variation on one aspect of the sound – much like the recent Atlas, and some other IEMs from other manufacturers (T10/T20 etc). This time there are some filters which are hollow, and some which are also internally damped. The range of changes is really good with these options – and it affects both upper mids and also mid-bass down. Total changes of all filters and also a single example of gold damped vs undamped is shown.


 

	[COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR]	[SIZE=inherit][COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TD]Inside the Delta V2 + damped filter[/TD]​

[TD]Other side of the filter[/TD]​

[TD]Full range of filters[/TD]​

 


The Delta V2 comes with


 


1 pair gun-metal (damped)


2 pairs silver (one damped / one hollow)


2 pairs purple (one damped / one hollow)


2 pairs gold (one damped / one hollow)


 

	[COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR]	[SIZE=inherit][COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TD]Close up of purple - note tiny ports + damping [/TD]​

[TD]All of the filters[/TD]​

[TD]Damped vs undamped gold[/TD]​

 


And with this you can go from relatively balanced to very V shaped. I love it, and can't wait until the new driver shows up.


 


Bob – this is still the way I would personally run all your filters. It gives so much more control over very different sonics.


 


Ranking?


 


So how would I rank what I've heard so far?


 


Subjectively. I'd put the Sabre ahead technically – it is just super smooth and effortless, but for me the filter choices on the Delta V2 put it on equal footing. If the Sabre had the same filter choices - no question it would pull ahead. I'd rank old Delta next (I've always had a soft spot for it – again it comes down to tuning and filter choices). Atlas would be last – but again I need to stress that its just my personal thoughts on having too much bass. When we are originally tuning the Atlas, Bob sent me a pair of black ones – perfectly matched with the bass driver turned down quite a bit. I still have them and love them. They are unique. I know a lot of people love their Atlas – its just not my favourite sound.


 


Final question – what does Sabre most sound like. Tough question! It's pretty similar to Delta V2, but thats probably not helpful. So the other earphone I'd say it is relatively close to would be Dunu's Titan T5. Similar bass and upper mid-range signatures.


 


If anyone has any direct questions I'll try and answer them – but just remember:


- I don't have the Master with me.


- The Sabre is not final (but I thinks it is pretty close to final tuning)


- My Delta V2 is unfortunately broken, so I can't give you an idea of true comparison.


 


And here's a quick look at the size of the Delta V2 vs the original.


 

	[COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR]	[SIZE=inherit][COLOR=FF4400] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[TD]Old vs new Delta[/TD]​

[TD]Main difference is length[/TD]​

[TD]Very similar width[/TD]​

Thank you for the excellent follow-up.
I noted you compared the Sabre earlier to the sound of the A83. Have you heard the A73? I think the A73 is little less biright and little less bass than A83. I love my A73 and wonder if the Sabre would have a comparable sound(mid and highs) with a bit more bass.
The fact the Sabre is less expensive and would have optional all access to BT lanyard would make them untouchable on value and sound quality,

How are microphonics for you on the Sabre and Delta VIi? On the Sabre you wear them cable over the ear?

{Mod Edit - spoilered long quoted post}

 

[Venture Guy]

@Brooko, how is the soundstage? In theory, a single driver should have the best soundstage because it has the best shot at phase coherence. To wit, the Flare R2 series. However, unless you spend a fortune on the driver, one ends up with limited frequency response. To wit, the Flare R2 series. Thus, the tantalizing possibility of the push/pull is extended frequency response AND soundstage. Any reality to the fantasy?

 

[audio123]

@Brooko
, how is the soundstage? In theory, a single driver should have the best soundstage because it has the best shot at phase coherence. To wit, the Flare R2 series. However, unless you spend a fortune on the driver, one ends up with limited frequency response. To wit, the Flare R2 series. Thus, the tantalizing possibility of the push/pull is extended frequency response AND soundstage. Any reality to the fantasy?

yes good single Ba examples are from my favourite brand final audio design

 

[Venture Guy]

yes good single Ba examples are from my favourite brand final audio design

Exactly... expensive!

 

[uemitay]

Is the Sabre design finished yet or will it have some branding on its surface?

 

[pedronet]

SABRE IMPRESSIONS

 
That was like poetry honestly 

 it seriously seems the perfect iem for the sound i'm looking for for a long time

 

[uemitay]

@Brooko what about the sabre cable? do they equal to the atlas cables? do they go easly over the ear?

 

[audio123]

Exactly... expensive!

as biased as it may sound, no iems can match the way they sound back to trinity audio, wonder when will the ks starts!

 

[audio123]

It's not a sealed IEM, but the oBravo ERIB-2a has bigger soundstage than my HD600 and greater transparency. The ERIB-2a is pretty spectacular. I'm planning on getting the Master 6 and the ERIB-2a.

which is why i mentioned obravo and radius planar iems earlier as being able to compete with headphones from an iem perspective. Not your normal iems but planar iems vs headphones!

 

[Venture Guy]

which is why i mentioned obravo and radius planar iems earlier as being able to compete with headphones from an iem perspective. Not your normal iems but planar iems vs headphones!

Have you auditioned the obravo and radius? Impressions? The problem with exotics like these is that it is impossible to demo them...

 

[audio123]

Have you auditioned the obravo and radius? Impressions? The problem with exotics like these is that it is impossible to demo them...

yes i have auditioned them before at canjam and e earphone. They sound like cans basically. It is not impossible to audition them.

 

[Venture Guy]

yes i have auditioned them before at canjam and e earphone. They sound like cans basically. It is not impossible to audition them.

How are the Radius versus the Obravo?

 

[Lonelyers]

For the KS Campaign, will there be a combo for Phantom Master and Air?  Or will backers be able to enjoy early bird prices for both?
 
I hope there will be a balanced cable option for the Phantom Master.