elfary said:

   
Information can lower health care costs. Not overkills that harm people that use big cans or listen to classical.
 
 

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jk  

@CanadianMaestro: ?

rugbyplayer said:

every single thing points to there being a dac. why are people still trying to push this? Even previous posters in this thread said there are noticeable differences between the headphone out and the cable, give it up already

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that's not entirely fair. If nothing else, verification is more objective than "yes it does, no it doesn't". Which is amusing at first, but gets old after a while...

Well, Chipworks is reporting that there are 3 audio amps in the new iPhone, including one which appears to be intended to drive the headphones.
 
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/iphone-7-plus-teardown-confirms-longer-lasting-2-900-mah-battery-and-3gb-of-ram.1996640/page-6#post-23470353
 
The plot thickens.
 
Full Chipworks rundown here http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/apple-iphone-7-teardown
 

 The iPhone 7 still uses the same Apple/Cirrus Logic 338S00105 Audio Codec as in the iPhone 6S, but the Audio Amplifier has changed to the new 338S00220. (previously 338S1285).

We found not just 2 but 3 Audio Amplifiers - we speculate there is one audio amplifier for for each of the two speakers, and the third amplifier is for the headphone via the Lightning port.

The third Audio amplifier is situated next to the Applications Processor Module with 3 black blobs on it. It was discovered during de-soldering of the A10 applications processor. When the blob was scraped off, it was an ‘oh wow, there are 3 audio amps!’ kind of discovery. Chipworks has a Basic Functional Analysis Report of the Apple/Cirrus Logic 338S1285.

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The Chipworks teardown makes for interesting reading; still no teardown on the adapter itself though and if this third Amp really does send analogue audio out through the lightning port then the feature must also be present on older devices as the adapter is confirmed as working with them.

west0ne said:

The Chipworks teardown makes for interesting reading; still no teardown on the adapter itself though and if this third Amp really does send analogue audio out through the lightning port then the feature must also be present on older devices as the adapter is confirmed as working with them.

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I had heard somewhere that it's been there all along but apple had it blocked. But I've been told on here that that was impossible.

west0ne said:

  The Chipworks teardown makes for interesting reading; still no teardown on the adapter itself though and if this third Amp really does send analogue audio out through the lightning port then the feature must also be present on older devices as the adapter is confirmed as working with them.

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so why isnt this additional amplifier on any of the previous teardowns? hmmmmmm 

dbaker1981 said:

I had heard somewhere that it's been there all along but apple had it blocked. But I've been told on here that that was impossible.

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People who claim to be 'experts' have said that the lightning port is purely digital which is why analogue audio is said to be impossible. The lightning port specifications don't appear to mention analogue but they do make reference to the lightning port being 'adaptive' with the plug part having a chip that carries out a digital handshake that allows the host device to adapt the pin-out to suit. It could be that Apple decided to include analogue pass-through in some way but that this feature has only be activated with iOS 10 and the new adapter has the handshake feature to turn it on when needed, even on older devices. I know that the arguments against this seem the revolve around the lightning interface specifications being digital only but when has Apple ever worried too much about standards and specifications. I'm sure we'll find out for certain soon enough.

west0ne said:

   
People who claim to be 'experts' have said that the lightning port is purely digital which is why analogue audio is said to be impossible. The lightning port specifications don't appear to mention analogue but they do make reference to the lightning port being 'adaptive' with the plug part having a chip that carries out a digital handshake that allows the host device to adapt the pin-out to suit. It could be that Apple decided to include analogue pass-through in some way but that this feature has only be activated with iOS 10 and the new adapter has the handshake feature to turn it on when needed, even on older devices. I know that the arguments against this seem the revolve around the lightning interface specifications being digital only but when has Apple ever worried too much about standards and specifications. I'm sure we'll find out for certain soon enough.

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ummmm they care because they release the spec and standard to every single app developer out there? And because it has to be approved to be put on any device like an Iphone by the FCC? 

rugbyplayer said:

  so why isnt this additional amplifier on any of the previous teardowns? hmmmmmm 

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That's the one thing that doesn't bode well for the analogue pass through theory; but unlike you I'm still open to any option until it is has been proven 100% either way.
 
Part of me wants it to be analogue pass-through just because it would blow a hole straight through the Apple claims about digital being better, but I also want the adapter to have it's own DAC/Amp because it is so small and supposedly has the same sound as the iPhone itself and that potentially opens the door to cheaper, smaller DAC/Amps for all devices not just iDevices.
 
As for my comments about Apple not worrying about standards, well that was a bit of a glib swipe at Apple and their history around standards!

rugbyplayer said:

  so why isnt this additional amplifier on any of the previous teardowns? hmmmmmm 

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​So why is it here?

When the first lightning iDevices came out Apple also released the lightning to 30-pin converter so that all 30-pin devices could continue to be used. This adapter is supposed to have a dac in it as Apple at that time public stated that lightning was digital only, no analog audio and no analog video (video not even with the adapter).

nc8000 said:

When the first lightning iDevices came out Apple also released the lightning to 30-pin converter so that all 30-pin devices could continue to be used. This adapter is supposed to have a dac in it as Apple at that time public stated that lightning was digital only, no analog audio and no analog video (video not even with the adapter).

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​Yes, we know this.
 
The cynical side of me thinks that Apple did that to sell a ton of expensive adapters at the time, and now they might pull the reverse trick to sell a bunch more adapters again.

Trying to help CanadianMaestro with his deep ruminations about my IQ, there goes some guessing:

May be it has always been a headphone amp and an amp per speaker, iPhone 7 has an extra speaker thus an extra amp.

As digital as the Lightning port seems to be it can pass electricity to noise cancelling headphones. Transducers are powered by electricity as well. Couldn't it be possible that Apple triggered analog pumping via iOS 10?

The Lightning to 30 pin adapter had to pump analog audio and charge at the same time that would explain its built in audio circuitry, price and size.

That would explain why european 3.5mm dongles are capped when plugged into europan iphones (whose headphone amps are capped) but the same european dongles are not capped when plugged into european ipads (whose headphone amps are not capped).

It would still be the iPhone built amp just rerouted to the Lightning.

People report sound to be identical or very close after all. Slight perceived differences could be trigged by noise floor changes due to signal path differences or even due to placebo.

Hope for dongle teardown.

Ebay is ao crammed by cheap dongles that reminds me of the good old days of 30 pin lineout dongles,,,

zhenya said:

 
​Yes, we know this.
 
The cynical side of me thinks that Apple did that to sell a ton of expensive adapters at the time, and now they might pull the reverse trick to sell a bunch more adapters again.

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The only problem with the theory about cashing in on adapters [for Apple at least]  this time around is that there are lots of adapters available on Aliexpress and eBay at around half the price of the Apple adapter; I doubt that all of these are MFi certified (possibly being generous suggesting that any are certified). Where Apple will make their money is on MFi certification programmes once legitimate headphone manufacturers start offering lightning versions of their headphones.
 
Incidentally I see that Fiio are advertising a Lightning IEM and Lightning>3.5mm cable with what look to be volume controls; at least we know that Fiio are MFi certified.