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Vali 2 tube rolling
Mar 6, 2016 at 1:36 PM Post #423 of 6,436
designer79 said:
  Cheers fellow audio enthusiasts,
 
So, I got another tube and this one is rather interesting ... I decided to send the wrongly received AEG back to the seller and instead get the originally ordered "mystery-Valvo". It's a rather special tube, supposedly produced by RFT (Rundfunk- und Fernmelde-Technik) in former East Germany, better known actually for a military-spec EL-34 tube. They supposedly did a lot of OEM-business which also included Philips (hence the Valvo logo) so that's why I couldn't find the standard Philips factory code on it, and why it became clear to me that it wasn't produced in the Radio France Suresnes factory, I previosly assumed "RFT" stood for in the description.
 

 
It's an interesting tube, first for it's funny "UFO"-Style getter, never seen anything like it.
 

 
Secondly it has a very different sound signature to either the Tesla and the Philips Miniwatt.</snip>
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That "UFO" getter (I called it that, too) is more common that one would think.  I once purchased a few hundred 6J6's that were made in Japan.  They all had the "UFO" getter, exactly as shown above.
 
Mar 6, 2016 at 2:22 PM Post #424 of 6,436
guidostrunk said:
I'm super curious about this tube. Looking forward to your impressions. What a steal bro! Let it burn in a good bit before you make any decisions.
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I've got a Philips PCC88 made in Ei as my primary tube right now. Really curious to hear how a miniwatt PCC88 (pinched waist no less) compares.
 
Mar 7, 2016 at 9:57 PM Post #425 of 6,436
My Vali 2 came with a pretty nice sounding tube, not sure of the brand since it just says "6BQ7A".  Very strong, detailed mids and a pretty neutral sound signature.
 
I just got a used Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6DJ8 on eBay for 19 bucks.  It sounds all right, a little more bass than stock, but I need to A/B the two some more.
 
Poked around on eBay some more today and ordered an Orange Label Amperex for $13.  Supposed to be NOS and I'm excited to hear this one.  
 
Mar 19, 2016 at 4:00 AM Post #426 of 6,436
Just did a blind buy on an Electro Harmonix 6922 Gold Pin. 
Do you reckon it will be an upgrade from the stock tube that i got from Schiit?
 
Mar 19, 2016 at 5:54 PM Post #428 of 6,436
nwavesailor said:
 
Yep!
 
Not to best of the best by any means but, IMO, a nice inexpensive step up from most stock tubes shipped with the V-2
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I have the non-gold pin Electro Harmonix 6922EH version and I find it a bit muddy sounding.  I had the "standard" JJ E88CC and decided to get the gold pin (& balanced triode) version and it's a very noticeable improvement.  Is there a decent improvement with the EH6922 non-gold vs. gold pin?
 
Mar 19, 2016 at 10:58 PM Post #429 of 6,436
guidostrunk said:
I'm super curious about this tube. Looking forward to your impressions. What a steal bro! Let it burn in a good bit before you make any decisions.
wink.gif

beerchug.gif
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Tube came in while I was out of town. couldn't resist putting it in right away and listening as soon as I got home. It was classified as used, not NOS, so it's got to have some burn-in already, I assume.
 
Problem is I haven't listened to the Ei PCC88 in a week, so I'm going from memory here. First thought is "wow, that Ei is a tremendous deal, it keeps up pretty well with this one." I'm pretty sure this is better, but I need more listening time to elaborate exactly why.
 
Mar 20, 2016 at 2:09 AM Post #430 of 6,436
About 2 hours of listening later, and I'm getting a better handle on what's different. This is mostly going to be a straight-up A vs B comparison:

Pros: The "pinchet waist" Made in Holland (I assume Herleen, I haven't found the Philips code on the tube yet, too much of a hurry to get it in the amp, but the seller claimed it was a Delta) tube is more controlled in the midrange than the Ei tube. There are certain songs that it just plain reproduces better than the Ei, like Muse - Map of the Problematique or Simon & Garfunkel - Cecilia. The Ei sound is just too much for those songs, almost "oversaturated". The best analogy I can come up with is with the Ei it's like if you put enough sugar in your coffee it eventually ends up tasting like diesel fuel. The Herleen tube may also be slightly better with acoustic guitars (which the Ei was already really good with). I really like what it does with Pearl Jam - Man of the Hour, and Nirvana - The Man who sold the World, both songs are a little bit more "live" with the Herleen tube for some reason. It's clean, it's polite, it's pretty, it's resolving. The Secondary instruments resolve even better than the Ei (which, again, was already good at that). The Herleen tube is just a tiny bit better at instrument texture as well. 

Cons: The "magic soundstage" of the Ei isn't as present in the Herleen tube. The soundstage will show up IF the song was well recorded and has a huge soundstage "built-in" (examples: MJ - Thriller, Commercial Hippies - Stranger Things, and Eagles - Hotel California Live), but the tube won't voodoo a massive soundstage in to every song like the Ei tube does. The Herleen tube is just plain more laid back than the Ei tube as well. Without that midrange "oversaturation" I mentioned earlier, the Herleen tube just doesn't rock the same. The toe tapping factor seems reduced. The Guitars in Kalmah - Burbot's Revenge and In Flames - The Jester Race are cleaner and easier to distinguish than with the Ei tube... but the songs just don't get up and ROCK the same way. The bass slam on the Herleen is maybe about 95% of the Ei. Where the Ei was a solid "B+" effort, the Herleen is a "B"... bass slam is reduced just enough to be noticeable. The reduction in midrange saturation and bass presence means that the super sweet mid-bass of the Ei isn't there either. Pink Floyd - Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 1 has Roger Waters' bass guitar be "just a part" of the mix, rather than front and center "on display" as I think was intended. Overall the "engaging" quality just isn't there like with the Ei tube, the Herleen is TOO polite.

I'm actually kind of dissapointed so far. I was expecting the Herleen tube to be a sort of "everything the Ei tube does well, pushed up a notch, maybe cleaned up as well" and instead I got a side-grade tube. It's different, handles some things better, but I feel like I may actually find myself using the Ei more often. The Ei has its flaws, but it's more fun. Again, it makes me double down on recommending the Ei tubes to Vali 2 owners. They're a steal at $40 (I paid an extra $5 for "platinum" triode matching).

Granted, this is with only about 2 hours on the Herleen tube in my amp. I have no idea how many hours were on it previous to my getting it. 1?, 10?, 100?, 1000? No clue. Also I'm over 100 hours of "ear time" on the Ei, so my brain may just be preferring it for that reason too. I'll give the Herleen more time to prove itself. As I understand it, the pinched waist Herleen 6DJ8 family are supposed to be highly sought after tubes, so this thing deserves its chance. If anything major improves, I'll come back and detail the changes.

edit: 8 more hours of burn-in later, and I may have given the miniwatt an unfair review. the Bass slam/presence has increased by a noticeable amount. It may already be better than the Ei. Midrange has stepped forward too. not as much as the Ei (yet?) but enough so that the "politeness" that was hampering the "rocking ability" may not be a problem anymore. The toe-tapping quality is back. Can't wait to see what this thing is like at 50 hours or so.
 
Mar 20, 2016 at 1:13 PM Post #431 of 6,436
Business trip to Phoenix yielded great results.

Gonna be a few days before I get home and start burning them in.
Bottom is a Phillips USA 6922 NOS Army/Navy surplus. Not sure the year. Arizona HiFi had a great selection of tubes and gear and were very friendly if anybody ever ends up in Phoenix. Great record store next door as well.
 
Mar 20, 2016 at 1:49 PM Post #432 of 6,436
To be fair. It is a PCC88. It's a 6dj8 substitute, but it's different internally(7v vs 6.3v). Give it some more time. Even if it was used, it probably sat dormant for some time. If no changes by the 30 to 50 hour mark, then it is what it is. In my experience with the PCC88, although not pinched waist. The thing they lacked was Soundstage, compared to the E188CC/E88CC, variants. They did holography well though.
If and when they open up, the soundstage , and dimensionality should increase a good bit. Keep us posted bro.
skarecrow77 said:
About 2 hours of listening later, and I'm getting a better handle on what's different. This is mostly going to be a straight-up A vs B comparison:


Pros: The "pinchet waist" Made in Holland (I assume Herleen, I haven't found the Philips code on the tube yet, too much of a hurry to get it in the amp, but the seller claimed it was a Delta) tube is more controlled in the midrange than the Ei tube. There are certain songs that it just plain reproduces better than the Ei, like Muse - Map of the Problematique or Simon & Garfunkel - Cecilia. The Ei sound is just too much for those songs, almost "oversaturated". The best analogy I can come up with is with the Ei it's like if you put enough sugar in your coffee it eventually ends up tasting like diesel fuel. The Herleen tube may also be slightly better with acoustic guitars (which the Ei was already really good with). I really like what it does with Pearl Jam - Man of the Hour, and Nirvana - The Man who sold the World, both songs are a little bit more "live" with the Herleen tube for some reason. It's clean, it's polite, it's pretty, it's resolving. The Secondary instruments resolve even better than the Ei (which, again, was already good at that). The Herleen tube is just a tiny bit better at instrument texture as well. 


Cons: The "magic soundstage" of the Ei isn't as present in the Herleen tube. The soundstage will show up IF the song was well recorded and has a huge soundstage "built-in" (examples: MJ - Thriller, Commercial Hippies - Stranger Things, and Eagles - Hotel California Live), but the tube won't voodoo a massive soundstage in to every song like the Ei tube does. The Herleen tube is just plain more laid back than the Ei tube as well. Without that midrange "oversaturation" I mentioned earlier, the Herleen tube just doesn't rock the same. The toe tapping factor seems reduced. The Guitars in Kalmah - Burbot's Revenge and In Flames - The Jester Race are cleaner and easier to distinguish than with the Ei tube... but the songs just don't get up and ROCK the same way. The bass slam on the Herleen is maybe about 95% of the Ei. Where the Ei was a solid "B+" effort, the Herleen is a "B"... bass slam is reduced just enough to be noticeable. The reduction in midrange saturation and bass presence means that the super sweet mid-bass of the Ei isn't there either. Pink Floyd - Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 1 has [COLOR=222222]Roger Waters'[/COLOR] bass guitar be "just a part" of the mix, rather than front and center "on display" as I think was intended. Overall the "engaging" quality just isn't there like with the Ei tube, the Herleen is TOO polite.


I'm actually kind of dissapointed so far. I was expecting the Herleen tube to be a sort of "everything the Ei tube does well, pushed up a notch, maybe cleaned up as well" and instead I got a side-grade tube. It's different, handles some things better, but I feel like I may actually find myself using the Ei more often. The Ei has its flaws, but it's more fun. Again, it makes me double down on recommending the Ei tubes to Vali 2 owners. They're a steal at $40 (I paid an extra $5 for "platinum" triode matching).


Granted, this is with only about 2 hours on the Herleen tube in my amp. I have no idea how many hours were on it previous to my getting it. 1?, 10?, 100?, 1000? No clue. Also I'm over 100 hours of "ear time" on the Ei, so my brain may just be preferring it for that reason too. I'll give the Herleen more time to prove itself. As I understand it, the pinched waist Herleen 6DJ8 family are supposed to be highly sought after tubes, so this thing deserves its chance. If anything major improves, I'll come back and detail the changes.


edit: 8 more hours of burn-in later, and I may have given the miniwatt an unfair review. the Bass slam/presence has increased by a noticeable amount. It may already be better than the Ei. Midrange has stepped forward too. not as much as the Ei (yet?) but enough so that the "politeness" that was hampering the "rocking ability" may not be a problem anymore. The toe-tapping quality is back. Can't wait to see what this thing is like at 50 hours or so.
Click to expand...
 
Mar 20, 2016 at 4:59 PM Post #433 of 6,436
I have a Vali2 arriving Tuesday I got it direct from schiit EU store, are there any stock tubes I should be concerned about? Also are there any recommended tubes to pair with it? I game a lot on my rig but I do listen to a lot of music, mainly in the metal, power metal and symphonic progressive metal genres. Not sure if that matters or not very new to the audiophile game.
 
Mar 20, 2016 at 5:26 PM Post #434 of 6,436
So far I really like the orange label Amperex. Shop around on eBay and you can probably find a decent one for under $20, actually a lot of choices for pretty cheap.
 
Mar 20, 2016 at 9:26 PM Post #435 of 6,436
Ebay is a crapshoot. You can luck out and get a rare tube cheap (I did), or you can get involved in a bidding war for a mediocre tube. Most of the Ebay tubes aren't tested as well as web-based tube retailers. You've got no idea what kind of microphonics you're getting, how well matched the triodes are, whether "NOS" really means "NOS" or just "not used that much". 
 
The well known retailers are knowledgeable, test well, and have reputations to protect. Unless you're trying to score a $150 tube for $20 (in which Ebay is your only recourse), I'd go with some of the better deals from tube retailers. You can find lesser known brand names like Pope or Bel that are just renamed Philips etc... or you can find tube models fully compatible with the vali 2 (PCC88/7DJ8 is the big one) that sell for half of what their 6DJ8/6922 counterparts sell for...
 
For what it's worth (considering I'm still a newb myself, who simply reads the hell out of other people's opinions here and elsewhere) if I were starting again from scratch I'd probably be looking at the $20 ElectroHarmonix 6922 for my "dirt cheap" option, the $40 Philips PCC88 for my midrange price option, or the $70 Bel E88CC for my higher price option... or MAYBE the Telefunken E88CC for the "tube that costs as much as the Amp" option... but at that point I might be trying my hand at crapshooting on Ebay for a $150 tube that nobody else bids on (it does happen. it happened to me).
 
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