Marantz HD-DAC1 vs Fiio E10 : My experience
Dec 30, 2015 at 5:49 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17
xaznxeclipsex

xaznxeclipsex

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Hi guys, 
I am a long time reader but first time poster on head-fi. I have been using the well known original ATH-M50 with the original Fiio E10 for the last 5 years, nice little $150 setup. Well the m50 headband and ear pads are breaking down, didnt want to spend the $40 to get replacements. So i decided to spend about $1100 and get new headphones with dac/amp combo. Bought the Fidelio X2 and the Marantz DAC1. I spent a few hours listening to the X2 w/ the Fiio E10 and Marantz, but I cant tell the difference. The Marantz might have a bit higher detail but that just might be in my head. I did tests with 320kbps mps, FLAC and hi-res 24bit files. Do you guys think my ears are just not that great at hearing a $25 vs $800 dac/amp or maybe its just that the Fiio E10 is that good?
I have 60 days to decide to keep the Marantz or send it back. The Marantz is hella sexy tho...  Thoughts? 
 
Not sure why I cant post a pic, but heres a link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/xaznxeclipsex/IMG_20151230_112424-01_zpswrizhpy6.jpeg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/xaznxeclipsex/IMG_20151230_172231_zpsj00jxw6s.jpg
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 8:15 AM Post #2 of 17
You are right. I had the Fiio E12 and now the Marantz HD DAC1. I can't find any difference. I think the DAC part of many DACs are pretty much the same sounding. I'm using the Marantz as a headphone amp for 600 ohm headphones though. 
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 8:48 AM Post #3 of 17
The differences between DACs and Amps are small. And some headphones reveal those differences better. Trained ears help as well. But by and large the differences are small. The Fiio isn't a good DAC or Amp so that is a bit surprising.

Anyway, I'd say listen to the Maratz straight for 10-15 days. Then come back to the Fiio. If you still can't hear any difference, send the Marantz back.
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 9:11 AM Post #4 of 17
Was wondering if the DACs have a burn in time too? My Marantz is pretty new (got it 4 days back and been using it only for like an hour per day). Bought it along with new HD 600s and everything sounded great out of the box but I think its the headphones that makes the difference since my other 32 ohm headphones sounded same in both my Fiio E12 and Marantz.
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 9:20 AM Post #5 of 17
They usually shouldn't require much, if any burn in. Just to be extra safe, connect headphones to them and keep sound running for say 10+ hrs per day, for 4-5 days. Then check again. If that doesn't make any difference, nothing will.
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 9:38 AM Post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by xaznxeclipsex /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Bought the Fidelio X2 and the Marantz DAC1. I spent a few hours listening to the X2 w/ the Fiio E10 and Marantz, but I cant tell the difference. The Marantz might have a bit higher detail but that just might be in my head. I did tests with 320kbps mps, FLAC and hi-res 24bit files.
 
Do you guys think my ears are just not that great at hearing a $25 vs $800 dac/amp or maybe its just that the Fiio E10 is that good?
Click to expand...

 
For the most part, DACs make only a very small difference - in some cases for example my D-Zero has a warmer tone than some other USB DACs, but it's not something I'd blow a lot of money to correct, and I'd much ratehr be listening at home than nitpicking this detail.
 
As for amps, they can be more important, but for the most part amps will only sound different due to distortion, and in many cases comparisons between amps come down to how much sooner distortion or more generally under what conditions will set in on one than the other. If neither amp is struggling to drive a certain headphone to a satisfying volume to the listener, generally they would be very hard to tell apart. In your specific case the X2 doesn't need a lot of power so even the E10 supplies enough for your listening volume, and at a low enough distortion level that even if measuring equipment pegs it higher than the Marantz numerically, in effective terms it's inaudible to human ears or at best, you. If for example you used a headphone with markedly lower sensitivity there's a likelihood that you could get audible distortion sooner on the E10, but not necessarily horrible levels that you shouldn't listen to, just that there'd be an audible difference.
 
Note that apart from headphone sensitivity noise floor is also a factor that screws up qualitative evaluations. One listener may try to overcome the noise floor with one amp by increasing the output level, and ends up with distortion like boomy bass or sharp treble, or otherwise he reports his ears aching, and then when he upgrades to a new amplifier some time later, on first listen it's later at night or whatever and the noise floor is lower, and he thinks the new one is infinitely better. In some cases one may judge the SPL by what they can tolerate, so more or less the two are as equal as they can be (and back to back too) barring a proper measurement at 1khz, but the problem in this case is that the noise floor might be obscuring minute differences in both. In my case, though not primarily for comparative purposes but in terms of how I judge loudness, my brother caught me listening on my Cantate.2 and he said he can hear from outside the house as I sat just behind the closed window, because as long as it sounds good I kept cranking it up. Now, while I praise Meier for producing an amp with such high levels of very clean power, note that you shouldn't be doing that all the time - at best do it for one track you really like.
 
That said, there are many different kinds of distortion and as it is you can get a more audible kind of distortion sooner in one amp than another. There are also other exacerbating factors - a very high output impedance relative to the load nominal impedance can distort the bass, either making them flabby or make a headphone sound tinny (similar thing when you use a flea amp on low sensitivity Dynaudios for example); very high gain on sensitive headphones can mean 2mm of movement on the dial can give you harsher treble qualitatively (ie, by that point you're considerably louder than on an amp with better gain and volume control), etc.
 
Again, in your case the E10 isn't exactly a cheap piece of crap, and given a headphone that's easy enough to drive, even these aren't likely to be a problem. That said, if you plan on getting harder to drive headphones in the future, you might as well keep the Marantz. Also, it's DSD capable, so in case there's some kind of properly recorded album available only in DSD or hi-res, but not in 16/44.1 (or the same price for the digital download), then might as well use the Marantz for those.
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 9:59 AM Post #9 of 17
I agree with what others have said.  Your X2's may not be able to resolve the difference.  Your ears may not be able physically sense the differences (mine probably can't).  You ears/brain may not be trained to notice the differences (mine probably can't).  IMO, it is hard to tell a difference between DACs from a technical standpoint.  DACs have been around a long time and should be well implemented by most established companies. 
 
Can you tell a difference between your hi res files and lossless from CD? 
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 10:14 AM Post #10 of 17
You could return your Marantz and keep the X2s running from Fiio or return X2s and get a higher impedance headphones. Or keep both if you have the money its a good looking DAC anyway:)
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 7:34 PM Post #13 of 17
I've sent the Marantz back, its on crutchfield now as scratch and dent but it should be in perfect condition as thats how I've sent it back. Someone should pick it up as its discounted.
I ordered the Aune X1S from massdrop for $200. The marantz looked nice but i think bang for the buck comes down to the actual headphones. I'll keep the X2 and will keep an eye out for some nice harder to drive headphones. 
 
Jan 21, 2016 at 8:55 PM Post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamergtx260 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think most of the price goes to the amp than the DAC or?
Click to expand...

 
Hard to calculate that but in many cases it's the amp. Why? If the manufacturer invests in an overbuilt power supply - large transformer, huge capacitors, etc - it's more for the amp section than the DAC. Then likely the parts on each section are just about even apart from that.
 
The rest of the cost is on the chassis.
 
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