REVIEW: Comparison of 5 High End Digital Music Servers - Aurender N10, CAD CAT server, TotalDac d1-Server, Auralic Aries, Audiophile Vortex Box
May 16, 2016 at 3:31 PM Post #346 of 1,486
  I'd be interested to know as well how the mR stacks up against the Sonore Signature Rendu but it all depends, I think, on whether your DAC sounds best via USB or via SPDIF since this is how these devices differ.  Obviously, the mR is a lot less expensive which is why it is so attractive.
 
I'm not personally familiar with the Off-Ramp but I am aware of its good reputation.  It seems to be based on very sound design.  There is quite a fervor that has developed with the mR and so I'm sure many comparative reviews will come out soon.

 

Exactly, whether the DAC sounds best via USB or via SPDIF is the number one thing that keeps me from hit the buy bottom. Probably going to buy it later on as I can use it with the OR5 if the USB is not to my taste. If not the Sonore Signature Rendu .....or....so many chose 
tongue.gif


 

Thanks Roy

 
May 16, 2016 at 4:39 PM Post #347 of 1,486
  Thus far, communication with the mR has been trouble-free and even with DSD256 and DXD playback through Roon, I have yet to hear a skip.

I will need to modify this statement.  What I meant to say was DSD128 and DXD playback through Roon has been trouble-free.  I began testing native DSD256 files for the first time just late last night and I am getting skipping, unfortunately.  As with most DACs, the Chord DAVE cannot handle native DSD playback.  It has to be converted on the fly to PCM (DoP) and the conversion of a large DSD256 file to PCM can be very taxing on a CPU.  I noticed the same problems with choppy playback when I try to play DSD256 files from a basic Windows laptop (dual core i5).  With the current version of Roon, I have had no problems playing DSD256 files using my high powered Mac Pro (12-core Xeon) or PC (4-core i7).  With the low power CPU in the sonicTransporter, I am getting skipping unfortunately so you will want to keep this in mind.  The sonicTransporter has no problems whatsoever with any PCM files, even 24/352.8 or DSD up to DSD128.  This may have as much to do with Roon as well.  The Roon version that came out in January could not provide my powerful Mac Pro smooth playback with even DSD128 files but the update that came out shortly after seemed to fix everything and has resulted in smooth playback of all my DSD files with this level of a computer.  It's possible future Roon updates will result in a solution.
 
May 16, 2016 at 4:53 PM Post #348 of 1,486
  I will need to modify this statement.  What I meant to say was DSD128 and DXD playback through Roon has been trouble-free.  I began testing native DSD256 files for the first time just late last night and I am getting skipping, unfortunately.  As with most DACs, the Chord DAVE cannot handle native DSD playback.  It has to be converted on the fly to PCM (DoP) and the conversion of a large DSD256 file to PCM can be very taxing on a CPU.  I noticed the same problems with choppy playback when I try to play DSD256 files from a basic Windows laptop (dual core i5).  With the current version of Roon, I have had no problems playing DSD256 files using my high powered Mac Pro (12-core Xeon) or PC (4-core i7).  With the low power CPU in the sonicTransporter, I am getting skipping unfortunately so you will want to keep this in mind.  The sonicTransporter has no problems whatsoever with any PCM files, even 24/352.8 or DSD up to DSD128.  This may have as much to do with Roon as well.  The Roon version that came out in January could not provide my powerful Mac Pro smooth playback with even DSD128 files but the update that came out shortly after seemed to fix everything and has resulted in smooth playback of all my DSD files with this level of a computer.  It's possible future Roon updates will result in a solution.

Romaz, are you sure DAVE doesn't support native DSD playback, because I have been able to send native DSD to DAVE both using Foobar and Roon without any issue. But only with Chord's ASIO driver which when selected in Roon, it gives you the Native option in DSD Playback Strategy. You don't have this option when using WASAPI as you can see below.
Which driver do you use?

 
WASAPI

 
May 18, 2016 at 2:00 AM Post #349 of 1,486
  Romaz, are you sure DAVE doesn't support native DSD playback, because I have been able to send native DSD to DAVE both using Foobar and Roon without any issue. But only with Chord's ASIO driver which when selected in Roon, it gives you the Native option in DSD Playback Strategy. You don't have this option when using WASAPI as you can see below.
Which driver do you use?

 
WASAPI

I see what you're saying but I can't use the ASIO driver with the microRendu.  I had Jesus Rodriguez analyze my setup and I was told native DSD from microRendu or Sonicorbiter SE to DAVE was not possible.  I sure wish I could, though.  
 
May 18, 2016 at 8:49 AM Post #350 of 1,486
  I see what you're saying but I can't use the ASIO driver with the microRendu.  I had Jesus Rodriguez analyze my setup and I was told native DSD from microRendu or Sonicorbiter SE to DAVE was not possible.  I sure wish I could, though.  

Do you know why this is the case that mR doesn't do native DSD? I have one on order and this is a big surprise to me.
 
May 18, 2016 at 12:56 PM Post #351 of 1,486
  Do you know why this is the case that mR doesn't do native DSD? I have one on order and this is a big surprise to me.

The mR supports native DSD and Jesus at Sonore has compiled a list of the DACs where both the Sonicorbiter SE and microRendu can send a native DSD signal to.  Here is that list:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonicorbiter-native-direct-stream-digital-support-27418/
 
I asked Jesus to have the DAVE added and per his request, I submitted the diagnostics from the DAVE to him back in February.  Here are the diagnostics that were gathered:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-sonicorbiter-se-27028/index11.html#post515600
 
Somehow, after analyzing the diagnostics, Jesus came to the conclusion that the DAVE cannot accept a direct DSD signal.  Here is his response:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-sonicorbiter-se-27028/index11.html#post516259
 
I have e-mailed him again this morning asking him to revisit this issue.  I have confirmed to him that the DAVE is capable of receiving a native DSD signal.  I'll post his response.
 
May 18, 2016 at 1:00 PM Post #352 of 1,486
  The mR supports native DSD and Jesus at Sonore has compiled a list of the DACs where both the Sonicorbiter SE and microRendu can send a native DSD signal to.  Here is that list:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonicorbiter-native-direct-stream-digital-support-27418/
 
I asked Jesus to have the DAVE added and per his request, I submitted the diagnostics from the DAVE to him back in February.  Here are the diagnostics that were gathered:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-sonicorbiter-se-27028/index11.html#post515600
 
Somehow, after analyzing the diagnostics, Jesus came to the conclusion that the DAVE cannot accept a direct DSD signal.  Here is his response:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-sonicorbiter-se-27028/index11.html#post516259
 
I have e-mailed him again this morning asking him to revisit this issue.  I have confirmed to him that the DAVE is capable of receiving a native DSD signal.  I'll post his response.

From what I have seen DAVE definitely support native DSD. Maybe Rob can provide his confirmation so we know for sure. I'm looking forward to your post of Jesus's response.
 
May 18, 2016 at 1:20 PM Post #353 of 1,486
  From what I have seen DAVE definitely support native DSD. Maybe Rob can provide his confirmation so we know for sure. I'm looking forward to your post of Jesus's response.

Rob has confirmed native DSD capability already with the Mojo via ASIO.  I have to presume it applies to the DAVE since it appears they both use the same ASIO driver.
 
May 20, 2016 at 12:09 AM Post #354 of 1,486
  From what I have seen DAVE definitely support native DSD. Maybe Rob can provide his confirmation so we know for sure. I'm looking forward to your post of Jesus's response.

Jesus and Andrew are both working on it now.  Andrew is optimistic he can get the microRendu to feed the DAVE a native DSD signal (instead of DoP).  This would solve a big problem for those of us who own Chord dacs.
 
May 20, 2016 at 12:18 AM Post #355 of 1,486
  Jesus and Andrew are both working on it now.  Andrew is optimistic he can get the microRendu to feed the DAVE a native DSD signal (instead of DoP).  This would solve a big problem for those of us who own Chord dacs.

Thanks for the update romaz, does this mean mR will need a software update to get this function?
 
May 20, 2016 at 12:36 AM Post #356 of 1,486
  Thanks for the update romaz, does this mean mR will need a software update to get this function?

Andrew will be logging onto my machine (hopefully tomorrow) but based on the diagnostics that have been run earlier today, he doesn't see why it couldn't accept a native DSD signal from the mR.  If he can get it to work, the DAVE's (and Mojo's) profile will be incorporated into a firmware update for the mR and a box should show up in the Roon audio setup that you can check to allow native DSD playback.  Fingers crossed.
 
May 20, 2016 at 12:41 AM Post #357 of 1,486
  Andrew will be logging onto my machine (hopefully tomorrow) but based on the diagnostics that have been run earlier today, he doesn't see why it couldn't accept a native DSD signal from the mR.  If he can get it to work, the DAVE's (and Mojo's) profile will be incorporated into a firmware update for the mR and a box should show up in the Roon audio setup that you can check to allow native DSD playback.  Fingers crossed.

I'm looking forward to it. Although I haven't receive mR yet :)
 
May 22, 2016 at 6:02 PM Post #358 of 1,486
I finally got around to testing a variety of USB and ethernet cables with the microRendu and learned some very interesting things along the way.  Before I get into my findings, I continue to use the mR with the basic iFi 9V power supply that came with it while I wait for Paul Hynes to build my custom supply.  The mR has been running almost continuously since I received it and it has well over 150 hours on it.  During that time, it has run very reliably. As far as SQ, it is superior to anything I have heard thus far including my former CAD CAT, any Aurender (W20, N10, X100 with Ken Lau custom power supply), Auralic Aries with linear PSU and all the custom CAPS servers that have been through my system.  Because an audiophile colleague, who owns a Lumin U1 as well as a modified Oppo 105D wanted to hear my mR in his system, I brought it over to his house today and now, we are both of the same opinion the mR is better than those 2 sources as well.  When my better PSU comes in, I expect that delta to increase further.  While my Chord DAVE DAC is immune to source jitter, it is only relatively immune to source RF and so the differences I am hearing, I believe, are due to RF that somehow pervades even the most well-intentioned music servers.
 
Here are my USB cable findings with the mR and my Chord DAVE:
 

 
Generic USB cable that I use for my printer ($10/2m) -- Without directly comparing it to anything, the SQ through this cable sounds very good.  Only under direct comparison do you realize the sound is a bit leaner although there were not drops or stalls.  There are several things that disadvantage this cable from the rest as I see it.  It uses no special shielding, it has very cheap looking connectors and it is the longest cable (2 meters) of the group I tested, however, even the SQ through this cable is very passable.
 
TotalDac USB cable ($400/1m)
 

 
The TotalDac USB is my former reference USB cable and this cable continues to sound very good. It utilizes what I suspect to be a ferrite based RF filter.  There is slightly improved tonal body and clarity compared to the generic USB cable with the mR.  The difference against the generic cable is larger on the Sonicorbiter SE and Aurender N10 but still evident with the mR.
 
Curious USB ($340 / 0.8 meters)
 

 
The Curious USB replaced my TotalDac USB cable last fall.  On my TotalDac monoblocs, the improvement was a greater sense of air around the instruments and voices.  This could be gleaned as well on the Sonicorbiter and Aurender N10.  On the mR, it is slightly better than the generic USB cable but against the TotalDac USB, I can hear no appreciable difference.  Initially, I thought I could hear subtle differences unblinded but once blinded, I couldn't specify a preference.  I could live with either.
 
Audience AU24 SE USB - Single Wire ($895 / 1 meter)
 

 
I am a big fan of Audience products having owned their excellent aR6-TSSOX line conditioner and AU24SE power chords over the years.  This is my first experience with their new USB cable and on the Sonicorbiter SE and Aurender N10, it did not disappoint.  It improved on the Curious USB in terms of soundstage and air but also clarity.  On the mR, somehow its advantage disappeared.  While better than the generic USB, against the TotalDac USB and Curious USB, it was almost indistinguishable.  
 
Transparent Premium USB - ($595 / 1 meter)
 

 
This cable came to me brand new and so I gave it about 100 hours of burn-in before any critical listening.  This is my first experience with the Transparent USB and on the Sonicorbiter SE and Aurender N10, it tied as my 2nd favorite cable.  There seemed to be an increased weight to the presentation compared to most of the other cables with more vivid colors.  The soundstage and air were superior to the Curious USB and about equal to the Audience.  On the mR, it was once again superior to the generic USB cable but almost indistinguishable from the others.  I am beginning to sense a trend here.
 
Clarity Cables "Organic" USB - ($450 / 1 meter) and "Natural" USB - ($1250 / 1 meter)
 

 
These are hand made cables by Chris (electrical engineer) and Melissa Owen, a husband and wife team based in Oklahoma.  I discovered this brand at AXPONA and it is a wonderful USB cable.  The only thing that differentiates the much more expensive "Natural" USB cable from the "Organic" is RF shielding.  They both use a cotton primary dielectric and a teflon secondary dielectric but the "Natural" contains considerably more shielding and almost looks like a Shunyata power chord with respect to its girth.  On the Sonicorbiter SE and Aurender N10, the less expensive "Organic" tied with the Transparent Premium as my 2nd favorite.  "Organic" is exactly how I would describe the presentation of this cable.  Not as tonally dense as the Transparent but a bit more air.  The "Natural" goes even further in terms of air and space but also smoothness.  It has the most dimensional presentation of all the cables here and was my favorite cable.  The most expensive cable is not always the best but in this group, it turned out that the most expensive cable was the best.  It also outlined just how much RF is the problem because once again, shielding is the only thing that separates this cable from its less expensive brother.  Once again, however, on the mR, the differences are more muted.  Against the generic USB cable, these cables are a step above.  Against the TotalDac USB, Curious, Audience and Transparent, the "Organic" becomes almost indistinguishable.  The "Natural" is the only cable that I could point out reliably during blind testing because it had a touch more smoothness than the rest but I have to say this difference is very small.  With the mR, is it worth its asking price.  IMHO, the answer is "no."  
 
I believe my conclusions are fairly obvious by now.  USB cables don't seem to matter as much with the microRendu.  Even the short USB connector that comes with the mR sounds about as good as the other USB cables.  Those that have followed its development understand that John Swenson incorporated an improved version of the USB Regen into the mR and coupled with its ultra-tight regulation/isolation, its USB output appears to be incredibly clean and pure to the extent that a USB cable simply has to "do no harm" to sound good.  Extra conditioning does not seem to be as necessary compared to something like the Sonicorbiter SE or Aurender N10 and while extra shielding does yield some benefits, it is not something I would pay a lot of money for.  What would appear to cause harm more is not the cable metallurgy used but perhaps the quality of connectors and the cable length which could serve as an antenna to attract RF.  I believe this was adequately demonstrated by the generic USB cable that had what appeared to be very low-quality connectors but was also at least 2x as long as the other USB cables used. Even with the generic USB cable, however, the SQ was very passable.  
 
May 22, 2016 at 6:51 PM Post #359 of 1,486
  ..........
 
I believe my conclusions are fairly obvious by now.  USB cables don't seem to matter as much with the microRendu.  Even the short USB connector that comes with the mR sounds about as good as the other USB cables.  Those that have followed its development understand that John Swenson incorporated an improved version of the USB Regen into the mR and coupled with its ultra-tight regulation/isolation, its USB output appears to be incredibly clean and pure to the extent that a USB cable simply has to "do no harm" to sound good.  Extra conditioning does not seem to be as necessary compared to something like the Sonicorbiter SE or Aurender N10 and while extra shielding does yield some benefits, it is not something I would pay a lot of money for.  What would appear to cause harm more is not the cable metallurgy used but perhaps the quality of connectors and the cable length which could serve as an antenna to attract RF.  I believe this was adequately demonstrated by the generic USB cable that had what appeared to be very low-quality connectors but was also at least 2x as long as the other USB cables used. Even with the generic USB cable, however, the SQ was very passable.  

 
Roy,  thanks still again.
Can the MR be used with JRiver Media Center?  
After finding out that DSD files can run natively with Windows 10 through Parallels Desktop 11 using a Macbook Pro running OSX 10.11.5, I am ready to see if MR can improve on the sound.
 
I love the the sound of Roon now running with DSD files using above software setup but Roon does not support Asian characters, as yet.  Some 10,000 titles of mine are Asian.
 
JRiver does support and the sound is really close to Roon.
So, I wonder if MR can work with JRiver.
 
Naturally, I will be trying MR using just the Mac OS to see if my system can play DSD files under Mac.
 
Paul
 
May 22, 2016 at 8:34 PM Post #360 of 1,486
   
 
I am a big fan of Audience products having owned their excellent aR6-TSSOX line conditioner and AU24SE power chords over the years.  This is my first experience with their new USB cable and on the Sonicorbiter SE and Aurender N10, it did not disappoint.  It improved on the Curious USB in terms of soundstage and air but also clarity.  On the mR, somehow its advantage disappeared.  While better than the generic USB, against the TotalDac USB and Curious USB, it was almost indistinguishable.  
 
(snip)
 
I believe my conclusions are fairly obvious by now.  USB cables don't seem to matter as much with the microRendu.

 
Maybe it's the combo of mR+DAVE that is causing USB cables to not matter as much.  In my system, the AU24SE was more extended in the highs relative to the Curious USB when used between the mR and a Mojo.  Not a huge difference for sure, but enough where I would have a hard time parting with the AU24SE in favor of the less expensive Curious cable.  Or maybe the difference I heard was because I'm using the shorter Curious usb 200mm Regen Link.   
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top